Conservative party leadersip (erin otoole)

[EastCanada90]

so whats everyone think about erin otoole should the party  kick him from leader or let him lead them into  next election.. personally i think he needs to stay cause moving to the center like he wants to is the only way  the cons can become government again  in this time and age..

[Army Guy]

If he can flip flop looking for popularity, then what is stopping him from doing it again, And what he did flop on are important issues, gun control for one, canceling Justins carbon control plan...Conservatives don't mind center, this is left of center...

[Argus]

Who would they replace him with? They don't have many bilingual people to begin with, and after two leadership contests in two years they don't have many left. People say Polievre but it's far from certain he wants it, or would do a better job.

[Queenmandy85]

The voters of Canada are clustered around the centre. The politician who tries to convince the voter he (the politician) knows what is good for the voter, will lose. It is arrogant of a politician to believe she is smarter than the voter. When a CPC politician or NDP er for that matter, tries to drag the country away from the centre, the voters will cut them off at the knees. A politician who listens to the voter will most likely be a good PM. It is what democracy is all about. That's how MacKenzie King was PM longer than anyone else in the history of the British Empire. He didn't care about ideology. 

Mr. O'Toole deserves another shot.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Queenmandy85

[Yzermandius19]

the lefties are fans of the cuckservative

since he's just another liberal

quelle surprise

this is just further proof that Canada's "center" is quite far to the left

and the Overton window of acceptable political opinion in Canada is extremely narrow

Edited October 6, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

10 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The voters of Canada are clustered around the centre. The politician who tries to convince the voter he (the politician) knows what is good for the voter, will lose. It is arrogant of a politician to believe she is smarter than the voter. When a CPC politician or NDP er for that matter, tries to drag the country away from the centre, the voters will cut them off at the knees. A politician who listens to the voter will most likely be a good PM. It is what democracy is all about. That's how MacKenzie King was PM longer than anyone else in the history of the British Empire. He didn't care about ideology. 

Mr. O'Toole deserves another shot.

What a laugh. As if the Liberals haven't dragged people off the centre! LOL. But enough of this high-minded stuff about voters. What voters care about is who will pay the most in borrowed cash for their votes. Everything else pales into insignificance.

The one thing Trudeau has going for him is he realized this. Doesn't matter whether you're honest, have any integrity, are smart, ethical or have good ideas. Canadians sell their votes to the highest bidder. If China's president ran an admitted proxy here and paid Canadians enough for their votes he'd get elected.

[Michael Hardner]

49 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. As if the Liberals haven't dragged people off the centre! LOL.

2.What voters care about is who will pay the most in borrowed cash for their votes. Everything else pales into insignificance.

3. The one thing Trudeau has going for him is he realized this. 

1. Socially, the 'left' has moved what the centre is significantly.  Economically, every party has bought in to neoliberalism, capitalism and free trade.  Environmentalism used to be far less of a political topic, but in the late 1990s became politicized and is now owned by the left.  

2. Sort of but also remember that Preston Manning and Paul Martin (and more recently Quebec's CAQ) have scored popularity by being more austere with budgets.  Even Trudeau, prior to 2019, was more prudent so I don't think Canadian voters are as in love with deficits as Americans are.

3. This will end ... hopefully soon and not badly.

[Queenmandy85]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

What voters care about is who will pay the most in borrowed cash for their votes. Everything else pales into insignificance.

Thus it has been through out history. In the elections between MacDonald and Brown, Canadian voters sold their votes for a couple of drinks. IIRC, the Tories bottle was gin and the Grits was whiskey or rum. By the 1980's, the Devine's Tories promised hot tubs but they were out bid by the NDP. In that election,Liberal Leader Ralph Goodale promised to tackle the massive debt the Tories had accumulated, by cutting services and raising taxes. He was the only Liberal elected. It is not just a Canadian phenomenon. It is universal.

 

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sort of but also remember that Preston Manning and Paul Martin

Yes, and they lost. Manning came from a line of socialists like his old man Ernie, Cece Bennett and Bible Bill Aberhart. None of them ever told the truth when a lie would do.

[blackbird]

20 hours ago, EastCanada90 said:

so whats everyone think about erin otoole should the party  kick him from leader or let him lead them into  next election.. personally i think he needs to stay cause moving to the center like he wants to is the only way  the cons can become government again  in this time and age..

No, I don't agree.  O'Toole moving toward the left makes him look more like a liberal lite.  He lost some seats and didn't do well in ridings where he should have done better.  Trying to become more liberal just doesn't gain many votes for conservatives in the Toronto 905 ridings and in Quebec.  People just don't see him or the Conservative Party as being much different than the Liberals.  He adopted carbon taxes against the wishes of the majority of the party in the convention.  That was a fatal mistake.   Just claiming he wants the party to be a big tent party just doesn't cut it or convince anyone of anything.   He is not a true conservative.  He is too much of an appeaser.   Keeping him on would mean losing the next election.  I don't see any reason at all why he would do much better.  The way it looks is if O'Toole leads into another election, Trudeau will win another minority government and we will be no better off.

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

1. they lost.
2. Manning came from a line of socialists like his old man Ernie, Cece Bennett and Bible Bill Aberhart. None of them ever told the truth when a lie would do.

1. Martin lost to Harper who lost to Trudeau (old 'new' Trudeau_  They weren't big spenders until Trudeau remembered that he could print money, 2019
2. Manning = Socialist.  Well that's a real firecracker isn't it ?

[Queenmandy85]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Manning = Socialist.  Well that's a real firecracker isn't it ?

He was Socialist Credit, a party of bolsheviks. (BC Electric.) They talked the free enterprise line but governed like marxists.

[Queenmandy85]

An example was BC Electric. The Socreds took a thriving private company that provided good service at reasonable rates and took it over, paying the shareholders 75 cents on the dollar and rebranded it as BC Hyrdro, a giant toilet for taxpayers money that immediately gave lousy service for high rates. Rolf Harris even recorded a song about the Bennetts called "the Wild Kelowna Boys."

I am grateful to Mr. O'Toole for pushing to eradicate the Social Credit /Reform heresy from the Party and look to the day when I can resume my membership in the great Canadian Progressive Conservative Party. Then we can turn our attention to giving Prime Minister Trudeau a well deserved and over due retirement.

[WestCanMan]

19 hours ago, Argus said:

People say Polievre but it's far from certain he wants it, or would do a better job.

I think that Polievre would steal back a lot of the votes that went to the PPC, then again, he might lose some votes from the center which would end up going to the dark side. 

The fact that he has a spine will help the MSM run with their "everyone who doesn't vote for Trudeau is a racist" narrative. 

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Socially, the 'left' has moved what the centre is significantly. 

I'm not sure that the centre - as accepted by the mainstream media, academia and politicians is all that close to where ordinary Canadians think the centre ought to be. 

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Sort of but also remember that Preston Manning and Paul Martin (and more recently Quebec's CAQ) have scored popularity by being more austere with budgets. 

The CAQ wins a lot of votes with its nationalism. The federal parties are ashamed at the very idea of nationalism. Certainly I've seen no hint from the Liberals or NDP, and O'Toole seems too timid, too afraid of causing offense to do more than halfheartedly suggest that the flags might be raised up again.

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Even Trudeau, prior to 2019, was more prudent so I don't think Canadian voters are as in love with deficits as Americans are.

3. This will end ... hopefully soon and not badly.

If inflation rises as some are calling for it's going to end quite badly indeed. 

[Michael Hardner]

57 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. I'm not sure that the centre - as accepted by the mainstream media, academia and politicians is all that close to where ordinary Canadians think the centre ought to be. 

2. The CAQ wins a lot of votes with its nationalism. The federal parties are ashamed at the very idea of nationalism. Certainly I've seen no hint from the Liberals or NDP, and O'Toole seems too timid, too afraid of causing offense to do more than halfheartedly suggest that the flags might be raised up again.

3. If inflation rises as some are calling for it's going to end quite badly indeed. 

1.   Brands and politicians have teams of data scientists advising them.  Unless you're Trump, you don't govern by gut instinct.
2.  Sure, but we were talking about responsible fiscal management and I feel that Canadians still hold that value.
3.  Well, they think they can control inflation now.

[OftenWrong]

On 10/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, EastCanada90 said:

so whats everyone think about erin otoole should the party  kick him from leader or let him lead them into  next election.. personally i think he needs to stay cause moving to the center like he wants to is the only way  the cons can become government again  in this time and age..

My first impression of him was negative, but that changed as time went on. He seems to have more depth as a leader than anyone else in the Conservative party.

Therefore in the next election he will lose...  

 

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

My first impression of him was negative, but that changed as time went on. He seems to have more depth as a leader than anyone else in the Conservative party.

I think he's "ok" when you consider the range of candidates. 

It's a shame that nobody from the business field seems so interested in governance.  Instead we get lawyers who speak well.  That said, he has some political sense and is open to ideas.  Not the visionary we need today. 

And - full disclosure - I don't think any of the candidates are offering a 'bold' vision except for Bernier, whose "barren hellscape" plan for Canada has been rightly rejected.

[Yzermandius19]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think he's "ok" when you consider the range of candidates. 

It's a shame that nobody from the business field seems so interested in governance.  Instead we get lawyers who speak well.  That said, he has some political sense and is open to ideas.  Not the visionary we need today. 

And - full disclosure - I don't think any of the candidates are offering a 'bold' vision except for Bernier, whose "barren hellscape" plan for Canada has been rightly rejected.

barren hellscape?

your Bernier Derangement Syndrome is really something else

wtf are you talking about?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

barren hellscape?

Did you know that zealots have no sense of humour ?

[dialamah]

42 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Did you know that zealots have no sense of humour ?

This is a levity-free zone.

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, dialamah said:

This is a levity-free zone.

I was about to laugh react but instead I will acknowledge, glumly, the comments of a comrade who is advancing us towards our goal.  

[BubberMiley]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:19 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Rolf Harris even recorded a song about the Bennetts called "the Wild Kelowna Boys."

 

Are you referring to the one alternate verse of the song "Vancouver Town" by the pedophile Rolf Harris? Why?

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's a shame that nobody from the business field seems so interested in governance.  Instead we get lawyers who speak well.  That said, he has some political sense and is open to ideas.

 2. Not the visionary we need today. 

3. And - full disclosure - I don't think any of the candidates are offering a 'bold' vision

1. Lawyers as politicians aint so bad. I wish more of them understood and followed the law. 

2. As to your quest for a bold visionary, depends what you mean. I for one am sick of that bold vision progressive claptrap. End product of unrestrained progressive liberalism- Mr. Trudeau as PM. The hair and butt, is the message.

We’re talkin Drama, not even law.

3. As a regular Joe Bob Canadian all I want for a PM is somebody normal. Is that too much to ask?

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by OftenWrong

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Lawyers as politicians aint so bad. I wish more of them understood and followed the law. 

2. As to your quest for a bold visionary, depends what you mean. I for one am sick of that bold vision progressive claptrap. End product of unrestrained progressive liberalism- Mr. Trudeau as PM. The hair and butt, is the message.

3. As a regular Joe Bob Canadian all I want for a PM is somebody normal. Is that too much to ask?

 

 

1. Really ?  I think it's horrible, personally.  Passing laws and understanding the law seems to me to be a small part of the job.

2. Well it sounds like you believe the Liberal PR.

3. It's too little.

[PIK]

Gun issue is not going away. Cant fight it. The old cons are dying off. Younger people want more for less. Old canada is gone. But what we need is competent, common sense gov. Changing O'Toe now, would be a bad idea. O'Toe did a pretty good job considering... Just a couple major blunders. I think things are going to get worse under Trudeau and who knows what the next scandal, boondoggle will be.

Edited October 8, 2021 by PIK