Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

OK. 

But, to prevent deaths from deaths with COVID (maybe dying from drowning from fluid on your lungs is the actual cause), isn’t the best way not to get COVID?

If the Covid virus is the reason you have fluid on your lungs, and that causes lack of oxygen which shuts down your liver, kidneys, brain and heart, it's pretty clear that your heart disease, diabetes, obesity, leukemia, cancer etc killed you.  Only young, healthy individuals with no health issues could die of Covid.

Luckily, I have hypothyroidism which will prevent me from dying from Covid.  On its own, hyperthyroidism won't kill me, unless I stopped taking my meds for some extended period of time, as in years.  But it's certainly reassuring to know that if I die while having Covid, it would be my hyperthyroidism that killed me.

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by dialamah

[cougar]

7 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

OK. 

But, to prevent deaths from deaths with COVID (maybe dying from drowning from fluid on your lungs is the actual cause), isn’t the best way not to get COVID?

To me, the best thing is not to be in the group with pre-existing conditions.  If you happen to be in this group, vaccination may be a good strategy.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Ontario data shows that unvaccinated 60 times more likely to end up in ICU. Those decide not to vaccine not only endanger others but they also endanger themselves (both selfish and stupid).

https://globalnews.ca/news/8230051/covid-vaccine-hospitalization-risk-ontario/

 

[Scott Mayers]

35 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Ontario data shows that unvaccinated 60 times more likely to end up in ICU. Those decide not to vaccine not only endanger others but they also endanger themselves (both selfish and stupid).

https://globalnews.ca/news/8230051/covid-vaccine-hospitalization-risk-ontario/

 

People at odds with this differ in beliefs about the facts. You cannot argue facts nor can you argue authority. This issue is not resolvable. As a 'proof' of this for me, I just spent a long invested amount of time and care writing a thread here about how the viruses and vaccines work, as I have tried using logic in similar attempts here and elsewhere. But if it isn't simply a mere tweet or two long, no one will care to read it. So, IF it could possibly have value ....and possible effectiveness....within a mere hour, it gets ignored and eventually buried and forgotten. 

Note that even if my arguments there were 100% able to 'prove' to any reader my thesis, the nature of any participation on these forums are FOR the 'negation' or to what we disagree with. That is, other than accolades of 'thanks' or 'likes', if we agree to something, there is nothing to add to the thread and it 'closes'. But then that gets buried never to be seen again and we return back to arguing for what we disagree about as though 0% of the whole could not possibly agree to anything!

[cougar]

6 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Ontario data shows that unvaccinated 60 times more likely to end up in ICU. Those decide not to vaccine not only endanger others but they also endanger themselves (both selfish and stupid).

https://globalnews.ca/news/8230051/covid-vaccine-hospitalization-risk-ontario/

 

From another survey the unvaccinated represented 66% of all people in the hospital.  The other 33% has one but mostly two shots.  This is nowhere near "60 times"!

If you are vaccinated you shouldn't feel endangered by others.  If you do, you probably do not trust your vaccination, if you don't why ask others to use it?

It is equally selfish to ask others to do things just to make YOU feel better.

[CITIZEN_2015]

6 minutes ago, cougar said:

From another survey the unvaccinated represented 66% of all people in the hospital.  The other 33% has one but mostly two shots.  This is nowhere near "60 times"!

If you are vaccinated you shouldn't feel endangered by others.  If you do, you probably do not trust your vaccination, if you don't why ask others to use it?

It is equally selfish to ask others to do things just to make YOU feel better.

Please read my post you quoted. It says 60 times reduction for those in ICU not hospitals.

Vaccines are vaccines not cure. Like all other vaccines they are not 100% effective so yeah I am not feeling safe around unvaccinated people.

It is not selfish to ask people who otherwise spread virus to vaccinate themselves or stay home.

Edited September 30, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

People at odds with this differ in beliefs about the facts. You cannot argue facts nor can you argue authority. This issue is not resolvable. As a 'proof' of this for me, I just spent a long invested amount of time and care writing a thread here about how the viruses and vaccines work, as I have tried using logic in similar attempts here and elsewhere. But if it isn't simply a mere tweet or two long, no one will care to read it. So, IF it could possibly have value ....and possible effectiveness....within a mere hour, it gets ignored and eventually buried and forgotten. 

Note that even if my arguments there were 100% able to 'prove' to any reader my thesis, the nature of any participation on these forums are FOR the 'negation' or to what we disagree with. That is, other than accolades of 'thanks' or 'likes', if we agree to something, there is nothing to add to the thread and it 'closes'. But then that gets buried never to be seen again and we return back to arguing for what we disagree about as though 0% of the whole could not possibly agree to anything!

Except for those of us who try to keep an open mind about things. I learn quite a lot about news and history here just by reading.

You are right about lengthy posts being a problem. You have about 3-4 sentences to make your main point.

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, cougar said:

If you are vaccinated you shouldn't feel endangered by others.

But people I interact with are just as scared now as they were before the vaccines.

Whole building is masked up, everyone double-vaxxed and still avoiding each other like the plague.

[cougar]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

But people I interact with are just as scared now as they were before the vaccines.

Whole building is masked up, everyone double-vaxxed and still avoiding each other like the plague.

Well, I can't help them.   

After, when, if, we get out of this pandemic, there will be hundreds of thousands messed up people who will need government support claiming post traumatic stress and what not.  There is stress on everyone.

[cougar]

9 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is not selfish to ask people who otherwise spread virus to vaccinate themselves or stay home.

Considering 33% of those at the hospital were vaccinated, this means they continued to be vulnerable to the virus, get the virus and spread the virus.

With this being said, it appears you, vaccinated people should stay home too, all of you!  You will be finally safe.

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, cougar said:

Well, I can't help them.   

After, when, if, we get out of this pandemic, there will be hundreds of thousands messed up people who will need government support claiming post traumatic stress and what not.  There is stress on everyone.

We even had to mask up at the outdoor farmers market last week. Only about 30 people there, and was a windy day. It was completely absurd. I wont be doing that again.

Nor will I enter any establishment that demands to see my “papers”. It’s a pity. Expect to hear that businesses are tanking due to low turnout.

Edited September 30, 2021 by OftenWrong

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 minutes ago, cougar said:

Considering 33% of those at the hospital were vaccinated, this means they continued to be vulnerable to the virus, get the virus and spread the virus.

With this being said, it appears you, vaccinated people should stay home too, all of you!  You will be finally safe.

Considering that over 85% are vaccinated then the 15% unvaccinated form 66% f hospitalizations therefore being unvaccinated pose significantly more risk to public. Those with significant high risk will be banned not everyone, That is why we ban only drunk driving not driving as driving also poses risk of accident but drunk driving poses significantly more risk.

Edited September 30, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[cougar]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

We even had to mask up at the outdoor farmers market last week. Only about 30 people there, and was a windy day. It was completely absurd. I wont be doing that again.

I'm sure keeping masks on for prolonged periods of time will lead to health issues.   I have trouble breathing sometimes being in a store.  Simply the mask will not let in as much air as I need and some of the "used" oxygen poor air remains in the mask and goes into my lungs a second, third, fourth time.  This can't be good for us!

[cougar]

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Considering that over 85% are vaccinated then the 15% unvaccinated form 66% f hospitalizations therefore being unvaccinated pose significantly more risk to public.

There is no "public" as in public any more.  There is the group of vaccinated and the group of unvaccinated.

You tell me I pose risk to you and should stay home.    I tell you, you pose a risk to me and should stay home.

Nothing else to say.

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 minutes ago, cougar said:

 

Nothing else to say.

Yes I figured that a while ago that I am talking to a brick wall. However, we are winning. Governments and businesses continue to do the right thing and everyday more and more will ban unvaccinated people. Soon you have to stay home because you have nowhere else to go!! Great.

Edited September 30, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[cougar]

8 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Those with significant high risk will be banned not everyone, That is why we ban only drunk driving not driving as driving also poses risk of accident but drunk driving poses significantly more risk.

Why did you have to go back to change your post instead of just posting your new arguments as a new post?

If I have 10 vaccinated people who carry the virus around me, they will represent a higher risk than having 1,000 unvaccinated people who do not carry the virus.  So following your "drunk driver" logic will be impossible as it is not known who is drunk and who is not.

The 15-20% unvaccinated, represent 66% of hospitalizations because supposedly the vaccine protects you against more severe reactions; not that you do not contract the virus or spread the virus.

Can you get the virus?   Yes

Can you spread the virus?  Yes

Well, you are a danger to me.

[cougar]

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

 However, we are winning. 

?    I can only laugh at that.

After the remaining unvaccinated nurses are let go, in an already struggling health system, and all others in critical positions are let go, in a already disrupted economy, you will start winning even faster.

[WestCanMan]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/ontario-recommends-people-aged-18-to-24-take-pfizer-over-moderna-1.5605442

Quote

An increase in cases of a rare heart condition in young adults who have received the COVID-19 Moderna vaccines has prompted Ontario to recommend the Pfizer-BioNTech shots for those aged 18 to 24.

The province says the rise of myocarditis and pericarditis cases has been particularly observed among males in that age group.

An Ottawa GeeGees player just died after a football game 10 days before this recommendation came out. The University of Ottawa made covid vaccinations mandatory for every single student.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/university-of-ottawa-student-athlete-francis-perron-dies-shortly-after-gee-gees-football-game-1.5591964

Apparently the inflammation of the heart from vaxxing is known to occur within the first 29 days. No one has said when he got his vaccination, but there's a chance that the vaxx is to blame. 

[myata]

Check it out, only takes minutes with the information at fingertips:

Norway and Finland reporting an average of 1-2 daily Covid deaths, population 5 million.

Sweden is reporting 7, population 10 million, no lockdowns.

Quebec is reporting the average of 42 daily deaths with a population of 8.5 million.

Travel from Wuhan not a problem and let's defeat it forever just don't blow on the crumbling system. Not to worry, public hospital CEO salary at all time high.

[Army Guy]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:00 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes I figured that a while ago that I am talking to a brick wall. However, we are winning. Governments and businesses continue to do the right thing and everyday more and more will ban unvaccinated people. Soon you have to stay home because you have nowhere else to go!! Great.

I have noticed that there are some hospitals now refusing to provide life saving operations or organ transplants unless you have received both shots...Since when did the medical community decide they could refuse treatment to anyone...what ever happened to that oath they took...it is one thing to place restriction on travel or public places, then there was get it or don't come to work.... but to deny medical treatment that is another whole new level.

[myata]

So, less than 0.5 per million to less than one in Scandinavian countries, to close to 5 casualties per million, Quebec. That's like 10 times and more worse than the peers. Possibly the worst performance among the peers. So why are MP and CEO salaries skyrocketing, where's the connection and feedback? Canadian MP gets more in proportion to the average wage than in any Scandinavian country. Not to mention that there they are actually representatives of the people, while in this country, useless and voiceless figureheads for the party office. Not to mention self-appointed automatic annual raises well above the inflation rate.

The answer to all these questions seems to be clear: disconnected runaway bureaucracy. From here it'll be a little bit worse, year on year, for automatic annual increase in cost a bit above the actual inflation rate the only direction in which things can move now and runaway means that there's no mechanism, neither practical or even theoretical to change or reverse this trend. Watch two decades of fixing it for a generation. Travel from Wuhan and rapid Covid response fund. The century is only beginning and there will be challenges and problems likely way more complex and demanding than this pandemic. Who will analyze and solve them, how? What the country will look like at bicentennial? And who will own it?

[Shady]

On 9/30/2021 at 6:00 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes I figured that a while ago that I am talking to a brick wall. However, we are winning. Governments and businesses continue to do the right thing and everyday more and more will ban unvaccinated people. Soon you have to stay home because you have nowhere else to go!! Great.

I think George Carlin predicted this type of smiley faced fascism.

[Aristides]

He also said a lot of things about stupidity.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

"Tell people there is an invisible man in the sky and the majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet and they will have to touch it to be sure"

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Shady said:

I think George Carlin predicted this type of smiley faced fascism.

86% of eligible population got vaccinated. What kind of fascism is this? It is the will of majority over the stuborn selfish or misinformed minority for their unwise decision we are still paying the price with deaths, cancelled surgeries and lockdowns and job lost.

[myata]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:14 PM, Army Guy said:

I have noticed that there are some hospitals now refusing to provide life saving operations or organ transplants unless you have received both shots...

This is not about science, but the rights and the democracy itself. We in this country have no meaningful separation of authorities and independent oversight over the bureaucracy. We thought that we had a good judiciary but now have to reassess that as the courts are looking the other way from these issues, under the pretext of emergency. All vaccines mandated before were backed up by decades of studies and provide lifetime or very long protection. Can it be stretched, only on a whim and by a bureaucratic decision without any serious consideration and discussion, to forcing you put something in your body every year? Given the quality of decisions and results so far, like travel from Wuhan?

I don't just fear but see it quite well that Canada would emerge from this experience a different society and a country. Decades of blind trust in authority, mental laziness and aversion to any change may have accumulated into a runaway irreversible condition. Canada was not a full contemporary democracy before this; it will emerge still less of it. How much less, could it still be called a democracy in the full sense of the word, we would have to see.

Edited October 11, 2021 by myata