Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[dialamah]

16 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Shouldnt be. The principle is the same for both. The needs and rights of individuals should be protected, and that has to be spelled out now.

Lest the mindless cattle stampede right over people with special needs.

A society cannot survive long is the needs and rights of individuals takes precedence over the needs and rights of everybody else.  To keep our medical system functional for everyone, as many people as possible should get vaccinated.  Your personal preference not to get vaccinated does not supersede the rights of vulnerable people to participate fully in society (ie: going out), or everyone's right to hospital care unhindered by individuals who got Covid because some entitled people decided not to get vaccinated.

I  starting to think people who refuse available vaccinations for deadly diseases should be the ones confined to home to protect vulnerable people in our society.

[dialamah]

19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

How many of the vaccinated who end up hospitalized with Covid have actually died?   The Cape Cod outbreak data being used to justify masking the vaccinated had no deaths among those who were vaccinated and got the virus.

Which is why I object to people not getting vaccinated when they have no medical reason not to.  

[dialamah]

16 hours ago, Winston said:

Interesting that there is not a motion to pay/compensate people once they are vaccinated. Although ridiculous, such a system could exist down the road. A lump sum or payment plan could be made, but this does boarder on unethical practices. 

 

Prefer fining/jailing those those who do not get vaccinated.

[Winston]

15 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Prefer fining/jailing those those who do not get vaccinated.

I can understand that perspective, but there is already a social "stick" threating those that are hesitant. It does not seem to work well, if anything it is causing more problems. 

Maybe leading with a "carrot" would bring better results?  How much is an individual's full vaccination worth to society?

From an economic standpoint, long term jailing/policing vaccinations could cost more than paying out each individual. Fining someone could cost more in legal cost than paying out each individual, especially when fining the unvaccinated is not legal at this time. 

 

[OftenWrong]

39 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Your personal preference not to get vaccinated does not supersede the rights of vulnerable people to participate fully in society

Yes, it does. I have my rights just as they have theirs.

Bur it’s not even as black and white as you portray. There is a lot more to be considered than just what the reactionary public wants. They are whipped to beyond being reasonable. The most selfish are the ones who insist everyone either comply, or die.

[OftenWrong]

23 minutes ago, Winston said:

Maybe leading with a "carrot" would bring better results?  How much is an individual's full vaccination worth to society?

I mean at least you’re offering up some more progressive ideas. I heard about lotteries and such, for example. I’d consider it for money starting at say, $10,000.00 

That might seem high, but no one had a problem handing out cerb to the tune of $2000 a month to practically anybody who applied. I’ve never received a penny of it. 

So, $10,000 per shot would seem fair.

....

It’s interesting to see how various people react to this. I say it exposes our underlying modus operandi, who we are and what our politics really amounts to.

In the woke tomorrow, people are imprisoned for crimes of drug evasion.

How about the death penalty? Would that not be more humane than dying slowly in a prison and spreading covid? The bodies should be burned of course, at very high temperature.

Edited August 1, 2021 by OftenWrong

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I mean at least you’re offering up some more progressive ideas. I heard about lotteries and such, for example. I’d consider it for money starting at say, $10,000.00 

That might seem high, but no one had a problem handing out cerb to the tune of $2000 a month to practically anybody who applied. I’ve never received a penny of it. 

So, $10,000 per shot would seem fair.

....

It’s interesting to see how various people react to this. I say it exposes our underlying modus operandi, who we are and what our politics really amounts to.

In the woke tomorrow, people are imprisoned for crimes of drug evasion.

How about the death penalty? Would that not be more humane than dying slowly in a prison and spreading covid? The bodies should be burned of course, at very high temperature.

Absolutely, here is 20 k for your troubles,  infact give every Canadian that wants or has had the shot gets 20,000 grand, shit it is only going to cost 780 bil dollars....Justin will be a hero, and he'll have added more than a trillion dollars to our debt...shit i bet we could not vaccine them fast enough. Money makes the world go round baby.....It would be every Canadians wet dream , free government money.... Don't worry they'll just print more, interest rates are low right or so Justin says and he is the lefts demi god .

Or maybe  we just say  don't want to get the shot, fine don't get it, but there should be some consequences, maybe no life insurance coverage or much higher rates, same for medical coverage, constant daily mandatory testing, I'm sure the government can think of all kinds of ways to make life difficult or should i say inconvenient, i mean they are good at that atleast...Not sure where the law starts or ends with the consequences part... but then again new laws are made every day.

Yes I'm concerned, or scared as some people put it, i just retired, and i want to enjoy my new freedom a little bit , so yes i caved and went and got a shot, as did the rest of my family, and if i go blind or my Johnston drops off, that would be the price i pay to live...we all have choices to make in our lives, but what we do not have a right to do is risk others lives in the process, hence the consequences or motivator actions., and if you can live with that, I'm good, in the end i hope we are all at the finish line at the same time, and I'm hoping to still have my Johnston when i get there.  

[WestCanMan]

On 7/31/2021 at 12:42 PM, Argus said:

Fixed that for ya.

It's up to you if you want to call it a conspiracy yourself, but don't pretend to not know about the endless lying and BS from the Liberals and CBC. 

[WestCanMan]

On 7/31/2021 at 5:16 PM, Army Guy said:

Not sure what the message here is, that C-19 is fake or the vax is fake or both ...one...

To put C19 into perspective, there's a Johns Hopkins study that estimates that 250,000-440,000 people in the US are killed every year by medical mistakes: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

Quote

• A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.

In 2020 C19 supposedly killed 600,000 people in the US, but we all know that people lie about those numbers for their own reasons. For example, the Governor of New York even got busted for telling his people to fudge the numbers.

No matter what number you hear, guaranteed it's false. 

Quote

What i do know is there is a virus and people have died from it, to increase your survival there is a shot to do that,

What you need to look at is the view from 100,000 feet, and ignore the POV that the liberal media is trying tp push on you.

Know this: There are 330M people in the US, and due to old age, heart disease, obesity, cancer, etc, a lot of them are really close to death. 

Leading causes of death in the US:

Quote

• Heart disease: 659,041.
• Cancer: 599,601.
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040.
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979.
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005.
• Alzheimer's disease: 121,499.
• Diabetes: 87,647.

There are 1.7M people who die in the US every year from heart disease, cancer, chronic respiratory diseases, stokes, Alzheimer's and diabetes.

Drs who hate Trump, and are willing to lie like Dr Ford, had ample opportunity to use C19 as the cause of death for up 1.7M people. 

The covid death stats even point out that the vast majority of people who died from C19 were elderly and had one or more of those diseases. C19 didn't "kill" all 600K of those people, the vast majority of them were already walking on the edge of their graves and covid gave them a nudge.

 

Ignore the anecdotes about "This healthy guy died of C19", because the flu does that every year. Almost 400 children die of the flu in the US every year, and that number last year was less than half the normal amount. Between 1,000-2,000 children died in the swine flu year, when Obama was Prez, and there were no lockdowns, no school closures.

Quote

 Why would all world governments decide to make anything up anything.

Control? Power? To sell vaccines? To make people dependant on the government, instead of capitalist economies? Lots of reasons.

Gov Cuomo got busted for lying about C19 deaths, and he received an Emmy for his C19 bullshit that he never had to give back.

Quote

I guess only time will tell who is right and who is wrong, everyone has a choice to make, hope you make the right

Time will tell that C19 indebted us to China bigtime, and that our leftists governments love to turn our citizens into their dependants. 

Just remember that at the beginning of C19 it was leftists in the US that were saying "Ride the subway like normal, go eat in restaurants, go to Chinatown and hug lots of people in massive crowds, don't wear masks, don't block travel from China, travel bans against China are racist", etc.

Our own government did absolutely nothing about C19 until March 16th. That was the very first day that they took actual, physical action. It was pathetic.

Leftist media in both countries promotes all of those people as C19 heroes, while they promoted Trump as a drastic failure. He was the only one who actually 'fought' covid in January of 2020. Look it up.

Literally everything that our liberal media wants us to believe about covid is a complete farce, but the stupid people who consume that shit will never have the ability to think for themselves. 

The only thing that the leftists really fought was HCQ, and they fought it tooth and nail, like it was Ebola. If you ever wonder how hard leftists could have fought covid back in January and February of 2020, look at how they fought HCQ. They were frothing at the mouth. 

[Yzermandius19]

9 hours ago, dialamah said:

A society cannot survive long is the needs and rights of individuals takes precedence over the needs and rights of everybody else.  To keep our medical system functional for everyone, as many people as possible should get vaccinated.  Your personal preference not to get vaccinated does not supersede the rights of vulnerable people to participate fully in society (ie: going out), or everyone's right to hospital care unhindered by individuals who got Covid because some entitled people decided not to get vaccinated.

the unvaccinated's right to participate fully in society is not superseded by the desire of others that they be vaccinated in order to participate in society

the best way to protect the vulnerable is not to punish the unvaccinated, those who are vaccinated have no right to force others to also get vaccinated

Edited August 2, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Huckleberry Finn]

On 7/31/2021 at 4:47 PM, Argus said:

I should have gotten the damn vaccine.

Father of five dead of covid at 39.

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/07/30/i-should-have-gotten-damn-vaccine-father-5-dies-covid-age-39/

He's morbidly obese. Can you say "co-determinant?" How about "heart attack?"

[Huckleberry Finn]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:43 PM, OftenWrong said:

Trudeau caused problems for Canadians by encouraging our unorthodox approach to mixing and blending vaccines.

Trudeau is a rich boy who wants to change the world and is using Canada as his sandbox. He likes what the pandemic is doing to this country in some ways, ans said so. He wouldnt mind if it continues even longer. Get it?

 

Yea I think this neatly summates Justine's motivations in just one sentence. He's such a narcissist that he wants a "reset."  This from a dude whom had a previous job of being a drama teacher - he's all about the drama and he is enough of a narcissist to manipulate this event to shape the political future of this country.

 Our political and medical elites could of used this viral threat to DEMAND that our population gets healthier. But no, that doesn't increase our reliance on governments, and in today's globalist agenda, we can't have people being responsible for themselves can we? No, we need sheoples that depend on the State, depend on nefarious, supercilious narcissist like the Pontificator from Papineau.

 

Aside:

It seems that Influenza has almost disappeared:

Weekly Influenza reports 2019-2020

Influenza weekly reports 2020-21 season

Quote

FluWatch report: February 21, 2021 to February 27, 2021 (week 08)

• All indicators of influenza activity remain exceptionally low for this time of year, despite continued monitoring for influenza across Canada.
• To date this season (week 35-2020 to week 08-2021), there has been no evidence of community circulation of influenza ...

 

Let me say again since it bears repeating:

DURING INFLUENZA SEASON THERE HAS BEEN NO EVIDENCE OF COMMUNITY CIRCULATION OF INFLUENZA.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Huckleberry Finn

[OftenWrong]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:28 PM, Infidel Dog said:

vaccinated people have been getting infected even before the variant and the CDC knew about it. The information is coming out now and the guys that hid the data would like to use it to get the lockdowns going again soon.

What a numbers racket. This does not surprise me. I was involved during the sars-1 outbreak back in the before-time. Real medical professionals without political bias. They concluded unequivocally- no vaccine is possible for coronavirus.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

16 hours ago, dialamah said:

A society cannot survive long is the needs and rights of individuals takes precedence over the needs and rights of everybody else.  To keep our medical system functional for everyone, as many people as possible should get vaccinated.  Your personal preference not to get vaccinated does not supersede the rights of vulnerable people to participate fully in society (ie: going out), or everyone's right to hospital care unhindered by individuals who got Covid because some entitled people decided not to get vaccinated.

I  starting to think people who refuse available vaccinations for deadly diseases should be the ones confined to home to protect vulnerable people in our society.

But you're wrong, you're assuming that people are taking care of their health. Most aren't. I think 40% of Canukistanians are obese or grossly over weight. The CDC reported that over 94% of COVID related deaths are from people with co-morbidities, specifically being overweight or have breathing problems.

A socialized health care system cannot survive if people don't take care of their health. If you're fat, you should be paying for your health care - not me! If you're diabetic and in 30 years over half of Canadians will be diabetic! This is ridiculous.

You shouldn't have a personal right to be a fat. You're a huge expense to everyone. You're the reason why our fed gov't debt has MORE THAN DOUBLED in one year.

It's time our gov'ts really lead and not be sycophants. It's time our gov'ts demand that people start taking care of their own health. But we can't look to a sycophant like Justine or think that our hostile media will allow this to happen. Our media, gov't and corporate elites, like a dependent population of "useful iddiots."

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry Finn said:

But you're wrong, you're assuming that people are taking care of their health. Most aren't. I think 40% of Canukistanians are obese or grossly over weight. The CDC reported that over 94% of COVID related deaths are from people with co-morbidities, specifically being overweight or have breathing problems.

A socialized health care system cannot survive if people don't take care of their health. If you're fat, you should be paying for your health care - not me! If you're diabetic and in 30 years over half of Canadians will be diabetic! This is ridiculous.

You shouldn't have a personal right to be a fat. You're a huge expense to everyone. You're the reason why our fed gov't debt has MORE THAN DOUBLED in one year.

It's time our gov'ts really lead and not be sycophants. It's time our gov'ts demand that people start taking care of their own health. But we can't look to a sycophant like Justine or think that our hostile media will allow this to happen. Our media, gov't and corporate elites, like a dependent population of "useful iddiots."

Agreed about responsibility for personal health. I know someone who became fat due to the covid shutdown. That is what prolonged stay-at-home orders do to people.

Now factor that in with covid 19 co-morbidities. No one is able to explain this tactic.

If we are to make health policies for everyone regardless of their situation, if we do that by using statistics and forecasting, why is this already well known fact utterly discounted?

Why do people call this policy good for our health? How ignorant and stupid are we for not questioning it?

Answer: Pretty ignorant and stupid

[Argus]

11 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the best way to protect the vulnerable is not to punish the unvaccinated, those who are vaccinated have no right to force others to also get vaccinated

They have the right to prevent the unvaccinated from participating in their world, in their life, to exclude them utterly and prevent them from partaking in the normal social aspects of society. They can't go to any public events, shows, can't join any group ,club or sporting activity, and their kids can't go to school.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Argus

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

They have the right to prevent the unvaccinated from participating in their world, in their life, to exclude them utterly and prevent them from partaking in the normal social aspects of society.

And if the vaccine doesn't prevent contagion, what is the motive behind that?

[Argus]

Andrew Coyne details some of the personality traits and arguments of the anti-vaxxer loonies and how futile it is even trying to use logic with them.

On social media, you can see them repeating the same phrases over and over, suggesting the COVID vaccines, and particularly the mRNA-based models developed by Pfizer and Moderna, present a new and special threat. “Hey, I’ve got nothing against vaccines,” they will say. “I’ve been vaccinated many times. But not with this kind of experimental drug/gene therapy.” (For the record, mRNA vaccines are neither experimental nor do they involve gene therapy.)

...

I offer these facts, not in any vain hope that they will sway the determined anti-vaxxer, but only to suggest how impervious they are to evidence. Something in us desires to be “in the know,” wised-up to the fools and frauds who profess to know more than we do; some personality types seem more prone to this impulse than others, or less equipped to overcome it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-whether-the-claim-is-a-deliberate-plot-or-mere-groupthink-conspiracy/#comments

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

And if the vaccine doesn't prevent contagion, what is the motive behind that?

It greatly reduces the likelihood of contagion. And the more who are vaccinated the better it works.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

What a numbers racket. This does not surprise me. I was involved during the sars-1 outbreak back in the before-time. Real medical professionals without political bias. They concluded unequivocally- no vaccine is possible for coronavirus.

No, they actually didn't. You're delusional. 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

It greatly reduces the likelihood of contagion. And the more who are vaccinated the better it works.

But if it didn't prevent contagion of the Delta variant as it is stated in US intelligence reports, would you still support social segregation of the unvaccinated?

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry Finn said:

He's morbidly obese. Can you say "co-determinant?" How about "heart attack?"

You offer that up as if it has any meaning. Tons of people, tens and hundreds of millions have 'co-determinant' physical conditions, including a wide variety of ailments from diabetes to asthma to heart disease to age. What are you suggesting? Just let them all die because you're afraid of getting vaccinated?

[Argus]

1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

But if it didn't prevent contagion of the Delta variant as it is stated in US intelligence reports, would you still support social segregation of the unvaccinated?

It does. It also make the symptoms far less dangerous if you do get them. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, Argus said:

You offer that up as if it has any meaning. Tons of people, tens and hundreds of millions have 'co-determinant' physical conditions, including a wide variety of ailments from diabetes to asthma to heart disease to age. What are you suggesting? Just let them all die because you're afraid of getting vaccinated?

Why are you implying the worst about Huckleberry Finn? Did he say he deserved to die, or that a vaccine was probably not enough to save him? 

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, Argus said:

It does. It also make the symptoms far less dangerous if you do get them. 

But it doesn't according to the CDC and dr Fauci. 

So, if the vaccines couldn't stop contagion, you would still support segregation of the unvaccinated?