The Coronavirus

[bush_cheney2004]

Airline travel and general aviation comparison for today.....Canada...USA...and Mexico...from Flight Aware.

 

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Scheduled airline flights in the U.S. have recovered back to slightly more than 50% compared to this time last year (2019).  

Data for Canada and Mexico was not presented.

 

https://www.oag.com/coronavirus-airline-schedules-data

[eyeball]

On 7/14/2020 at 6:47 AM, OftenWrong said:

When I walk around and you people walk right by me, feeling so smug and confident you are safe, make me want to revolt. I would tear that shit right off your faces, ye stupid fools, because you people have no idea.

Will Hunting is that you?

 

[Boges]

The Republican Governor of Mississippi with series of Tweets debunking the idea that Herd Immunity is a feasible option. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/politics/tate-reeves-mississippi-coronavirus-herd-immunity/index.html

Quote

 

1) "Let's talk about herd immunity. I've listened to some people argue that the rapid spread of cases is a good thing, and we need to reach herd immunity in Mississippi and elsewhere to survive. I'm not a health care expert by any means, but I am a math guy. And I have thoughts:"

2) "The experts say we need 70-80% of the population to get COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity. Let's assume they're wrong (it's certainly possible, they have been before.) Let's assume they're being way overly cautious and we actually only need 40% infection for herd immunity."

3) "In Mississippi, our population is 3 million. We've had 36,680 cases so far. We'd need 1.2 MILLION infections to achieve that hypothetical 40% threshold. (Remember, experts say it's double that.)"

4) "Over the last two weeks, our hospital system has started to become stressed to the point of pain. We are seeing the early signs and effects of it becoming overwhelmed. We had to suspend elective surgeries again."

5) "On our worst day of new cases, we had just over 1,000. It has typically been between 700-900 during this most aggressive time. To get to 40% infections, we'd need 3,187 new cases every day for a full year from today. We would need to TRIPLE our worst day -- every day -- for a year."

6) "I'm not one of these guys that immediately dismisses any idea that challenges the expert status quo talking points. I'm pretty skeptical by nature. That's healthy. But herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was."

7) "Unless you're willing to go without hospitals after a car wreck or heart attack, we need a different approach. Right now, despite mixed messages at the beginning, it seems like masks are the best bet. They're a hell of a lot better than widespread shut downs. Please wear one!"

 

 

[Shady]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:44 AM, eyeball said:

 I suspect the lesson to be learned from this pandemic is that capitalism simply cannot get thru the dark days without socialism to show the way.

Complete and utter nonsense.  Capitalism has nothing to do with it.

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Shady said:

Capitalism doesn't want anything to do with it.

FIFY.

Capitalism is patently no more capable of getting us out of this on its own without sickening and killing millions along the way than socialism is. It takes two wings to fly sometimes four.

Authoritarianism won't cut it alone either.

Edited July 15, 2020 by eyeball

[Shady]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

FIFY.

Capitalism is patently no more capable of getting us out of this on its own without sickening and killing millions along the way than socialism is. It takes two wings to fly sometimes four.

Authoritarianism won't cut it alone either.

Capitalism has nothing to do with this.  Now scurry under your bed and wait for a vaccine produced by one of the great pharmaceutical companies work on them! 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Shady said:

Capitalism has nothing to do with this.

Covidiots say COVID-19 is none of their business too.

In any case should capitalism be unleashed to deal with COVID on its own I suspect it would have to be just as authoritarian as socialism would be on it's own. 

[Shady]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Covidiots say COVID-19 is none of their business too.

In any case should capitalism be unleashed to deal with COVID on its own I suspect it would have to be just as authoritarian as socialism would be on it's own. 

I have no idea what you mean by unleashing capitalism in a virus.  Other than maybe the assortment of bio tech companies that are pursuing vaccines.

[eyeball]

18 hours ago, Shady said:

I have no idea what you mean by unleashing capitalism in a virus.  

Sure you do but you seem to think pretending to be stupid is the smart thing to do.   

[Boges]

Here's an interesting article regarding Canada's relatively high death rate with COVID-19. 

Per Capita, it's not that much worse than in the US. 

Just a shade under 9,000 people in Canada have died of COVID-19. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-heart-stroke-1.5652003

Quote

 

Heart researchers say there's a surprising reason Canada has seen higher COVID-19 deaths than many countries with fewer health-care resources — more Canadians live longer with chronic disease, putting them at greater risk of dying from COVID-19.

Research led by Heart & Stroke also found the pandemic has likely postponed thousands of cardiovascular procedures.

Lead author Cindy Yip said the findings underscore the devastating consequences of poor heart health, even if excellent medical care and technology are available.

"Quality of care is good to have, but it's not enough," said Yip, principal investigator and director of data knowledge management at Heart & Stroke, formerly known as the Heart and Stroke Foundation.

She said Canadians are somewhat vulnerable to pandemics such as COVID-19 because so many have survived other health crises.

 

People live much longer in Canada with chronic diseases. So when a virus that is most deadly to people over 80 comes around, it's the straw that broke the camel's back. 

This also speaks to the rate of people in LTC homes that died vs the general public. 

If you have more very old people in the public because your healthcare system is able to make them live longer, then it's natural that more old people will be around to die from a virus like COVID-19. 

[OftenWrong]

38 minutes ago, Boges said:

If you have more very old people in the public because your healthcare system is able to make them live longer, then it's natural that more old people will be around to die from a virus like COVID-19.

Do we have more very old people? Because you said something else at first there, that we have more people who are chronically ill. Seems to me there is a difference.
Please cite.
 

And if indeed we do have more chronically ill people, is that somehow a success story for Canada? Or do we just have more chronically ill people because the health care system is overloaded. The hospital occupancy level in Canada before Covid was already at 90%. I have sourced that here. That puts us on par with dilapidated democracies like Italy.

I can answer the question myself, based on personal experience working in and using our medical system. Lies. In Canada, before Covid-19 people who have a chronic illness are being deferred for treatment until later. Why? Because the treatment system is overloaded. There is only capacity to treat those who are highly urgent. In other words you have to be near death to get a treatment in this country, else you are sent home with some pills. It's ok to suffer pain and be socially and occupationally dysfunctional, according to our health care system.

The system is overloaded and is a shambles, a welfare-state health care system and yet for an absurdly high cost. Among the highest in the world, I hear. Someone is getting rich, that's quite clear.

Therefore, LIES I say. Utter lies, published by braying donkeys to excuse our government for their failures.

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The system is overloaded and is a shambles, a welfare-state health care system and yet for an absurdly high cost. Among the highest in the world, I hear. Someone is getting rich, that's quite clear.

Therefore, LIES I say. Utter lies, published by braying donkeys to excuse our government for their failures.

We are able to keep more Chronically Ill people alive longer. The point of the post is the present a reason, not an excuse. 

What would you suggest to fix the problem? Make more people pay for their healthcare on their own dime? Would that solve the problem? Or perhaps a significant tax hike. 

Is it better to have people die in their mid 70's? It certainly would be a lot cheaper. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

Canada's number of active cases drops by almost 23,000 in one night. Reason? Data "correction" from Quebec.

Number of active cases July 16: 27,600
Number of active cases July 17: 4200

Anyone want to take a different/ more relaxed position on the virus after this huge drop?

Didn't think so.

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Canada's number of active cases drops by almost 23,000 in one night. Reason? Data "correction" from Quebec.

Number of active cases July 16: 27,600
Number of active cases July 17: 4200

Anyone want to take a different/ more relaxed position on the virus after this huge drop?

Didn't think so.

 

How much more relaxed?  I don't even know how to measure relaxed.

How did they come by the numbers?  Who screwed up?

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by bcsapper

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

How much more relaxed?  I don't even know how to measure relaxed.

As relaxed as possible. How much more are you willing to be? I don't need the mask. I just need to social distance, and even that only for a little while longer. Good enough.
 

[Guest]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

As relaxed as possible. How much more are you willing to be? I don't need the mask. I just need to social distance, and even that only for a little while longer. Good enough.
 

I like the mask.  It made me feel safer, and likely gave others the impression I cared about their wellbeing.  Their wearing of one gave me the same impression about them.

[OftenWrong]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I like the mask.  It made me feel safer,

Oh I know. But it is a false sense of security. People will feel safer, because they have a naive view about virus control and think a towel across your face is effective.

The issue then is that they use masks to replace social distancing, and that is a failure of control. It's the wrong move. Social distancing is effective bu reducing time and distance spent together. Need to do both of these.

If people wear masks they may feel safe and thus relieved of the burden of social distancing. They may work closely together for prolonged periods. And if one of them has the virus...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Oh I know. But it is a false sense of security. People will feel safer, because they have a naive view about virus control and think a towel across your face is effective.

The issue then is that they use masks to replace social distancing, and that is a failure of control. It's the wrong move. Social distancing is effective bu reducing time and distance spent together. Need to do both of these.

If people wear masks they may feel safe and thus relieved of the burden of social distancing. They may work closely together for prolonged periods. And if one of them has the virus...

I would definitely be in favour of both.  I don't see any reason to lessen social distancing because masks are worn.  I see the two measures complementing each other, and here in central Alberta, it seems to be working okay.  I go to the store and wear a mask, and they still limit the number of customers to ensure social distancing.  Same with restaurants and bars that I have been in, to a certain extent. 

[OftenWrong]

42 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I would definitely be in favour of both.  I don't see any reason to lessen social distancing because masks are worn.  I see the two measures complementing each other, and here in central Alberta, it seems to be working okay.  I go to the store and wear a mask, and they still limit the number of customers to ensure social distancing.  Same with restaurants and bars that I have been in, to a certain extent. 

As long as you are vigilant that would be ok. In safety parlance we do not issue equipment to give you a nice warm feeling. Especially given the 90% dunder-head factor. Dunder heads do not know what the hell they are talking about. They don't know reasons, and think it's safer now. When you explain it to dunderheads, they forget about it the next day.

That is why we just don't issue that equipment:
1) Useless in practical terms.
2) Creates a false sense of security.

I could add:
3) Can give people health issues on its own, especially in hot and humid summer weather.
4) The fear and the implication that if you aren't wearing one means you are some kind of a monster can lead to unpleasant social episodes.

I was one man confronted by an agressive elderly man in a Canadian Tire store. I was in the paint section talking to the paint guy. We were waiting for my can to get mixed.
Next thing you know here comes a little guy with a shopping cart, and he is not wearing a mask.. I mean... double take... look, this man is outside of the cage!

So then some burly Scottish looking bastard comes flying over and bellows loudly: "Sir, why are you not wearing a mask here in the store."
But the little guy didn't flinch, just kept going nd he looked back and said, "Because I have COPD. I can barely breath most days."
Well, big dumb Scot. Aren't you an asshole... and he was. Didn't even work there. I mean shut the hell up, mind your own business and there won't be a problem. You people understand that?

5) Being arrested for not wearing a mask. Never knew there was a law. Best of all, or worst

6) Being killed for not wearing one.

Haliburton senior who refused to wear mask at store fatally shot in altercation with Ontario police
 

Quote

“The man was struck,” the news release states, although it’s unclear who fired the first shot and whether the officers fatally shot the man.

He was then taken to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 11:47 a.m., the SIU stated. Investigators are still attempting to locate the man’s next-of-kin.

 

You never heard of that, I'll wager.

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Haliburton senior who refused to wear mask at store fatally shot in altercation with Ontario police

 

You never heard of that, I'll wager.

 

Not wearing a mask can be bad for one's health.  Confirmed then!

You're right, I never did hear of that.  We are discussing media incompetence/malfeasance on another thread.

Edited July 19, 2020 by bcsapper

[Boges]

15 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Oh I know. But it is a false sense of security. People will feel safer, because they have a naive view about virus control and think a towel across your face is effective.

The issue then is that they use masks to replace social distancing, and that is a failure of control. It's the wrong move. Social distancing is effective bu reducing time and distance spent together. Need to do both of these.

If people wear masks they may feel safe and thus relieved of the burden of social distancing. They may work closely together for prolonged periods. And if one of them has the virus...

People are using both. 

I think masks do contain water droplets from the mouth very effectively. 

Not perfect but it's a good mitigation technique. 

[OftenWrong]

34 minutes ago, Boges said:

I think masks do contain water droplets from the mouth very effectively. 

Not perfect but it's a good mitigation technique. 

I already know what you "think". I prefer to go with expert testimony myself.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I already know what you "think". I prefer to go with expert testimony myself.

OK. 
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
 

Quote

 

One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

But the strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. “The most important thing are the epidemiologic data,” said Rutherford. Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called “experiments of nature.”

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Boges

[dialamah]

16 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Oh I know. But it is a false sense of security. People will feel safer, because they have a naive view about virus control and think a towel across your face is effective.

In my experience its the people who wear a mask who are more conscious of keeping distance.  Its those not wearing a mask who seem to have a false sense of security that they won't catch or spread the disese; they seem oblivious of how close they are to other unmasked people.  The appearance of a mask-wearer in their midst seems to remind them to keep their distance.  Around where I live, there are very few mask wearers, so I've had plenty of opportunity to examine the behavior of the unmasked.

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I was in the paint section talking to the paint guy

How far apart were you?

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You never heard of that, I'll wager.

I did, as a matter of fact.  

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

We are discussing media incompetence/malfeasance on another thread.

A person's lack of awareness doesn't equal media incompetence.