Will it be the virus that takes Trump down?

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Some are doing just that as restrictions are lifted.

There is more to the world than COVID19 paralysis.

But you said people were getting laid off because COVID-19 influxes haven't been realized. So far none of the cites you've provided indicate that. 

Even in Ontario, where capacity has been greatly increased and not realized, people aren't twiddling their thumbs as the increase in COVID cases are still much higher than any typical April. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

But you said people were getting laid off because COVID-19 influxes haven't been realized. So far none of the cites you've provided indicate that.

 

That's not what I said at all....I said that hospitals are laying off staff because revenue is way down for elective procedures.

President Trump has provided guidance for opening up, and some states are doing so.

 

Quote

Even in Ontario, where capacity has been greatly increased and not realized, people aren't twiddling their thumbs as the increase in COVID cases are still much higher than any typical April. 

 

Ontario was already maxed out before COVID19, with patients in hallways and broom closets.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

US intelligence knew about it in November but that report seems to trigger you into an even greater tizzy so why go there?  In any case Trump still knew everything the WHO knew the same day the WHO knew it.

You were using your rag as proof. I pointed out that what was in your rag didn't constitute proof of anything.

Quote

Where it says Trump administration officials worked hand in glove with WHO officials. The reports also deal with the question of boots on the ground. 

And WHO officials got to go where? When? They got to go where the Chinese gov't said, after they had cleaned up.

Quote

You don't need a subscription to read these reports btw. You can use https://outline.com/ to get access.

Then that's something that you need to post with your cite, isn't it?

Quote

It doesn't because it's not relevant to Trump smearing the WHO and blame it for his own failings.  

To your limited understanding it doesn't. Duly noted.

Quote

You're ignoring other reports that have proven Trump's travel bans were as effective as Swiss cheese. Yes the WHO did eventually conclude travel bans were a proper course of action but they were probably assuming bans would be properly executed.    

The fact that you don't understand why Trump's travel ban was ineffective was quite predictable based on the fact that you didn't understand the ramifications of that last part, about knowing that the disease carriers were asymptomatic and the disease was communicable before symptoms were present. 

You see, most normal flus aren't contagious until after people develop symptoms. That's why countries figured that screening at the airport was also useful. It was a bit helpful, but it wasn't useful in the sense that, "if we catch the people with symptoms, and the people who develop symptoms all self-quarantine, we'll be fine."

It didn't mean that at all. It means that 100% of the people on the plane could get the virus 1 hour before they got on the flight, they could all show zero symptoms upon landing, they could walk around for a few days and then all go home without ever showing any symptoms while they were in the US, and yet every single one of them would have been contagious while they were there. The whole screening process and voluntary self-quarantine process could be useful in slowing the spread, but it would be useless as a measure to stop the spread entirely.

Trump's travel ban wasn't Swiss Cheese at all, Trump's travel ban was an example of closing the henhouse door after the fox was in the chicken coop. Of the 430,000 Chinese travellers that entered the US before his travel ban, a lot of people were infected but America didn't know it yet. 

If China, and the WHO, and US intel had been out in the open about the virus when it first broke out, travel bans against China would have been 100% effective, by definition, if the length of the ban was long enough. But the virus was spreading far faster and had spread far more widely than anyone knew on Jan 31.

A study by Stanford University (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html from your precious "News Source", CNN) found that possibly 85x as many people in Santa Clara were infected than was previously thought to be the case. The methodology of the study is being challenged now, but we know for certain that there are far more people infected than just the confirmed cases, and we know for sure that some people remain asymptomatic the whole time they're carrying the virus. 

Quote

It supports it right here.

No, it does not, at all eyeball. 

Nothing there says that the WHO was able to go where they want, get the info that they wanted, or that they had access to accurate data that was collected by the Chinese up to that point. It gives a date when they started getting bullshit from China, and when they were able to start asking questions, trying to get data, trying to get access, etc, etc. Remember, the Chinese covered stuff up and lied right from the beginning. People were jailed, some are missing, some "died of covid", data was destroyed..... You think that they just went 100% honest on Jan 31??????? 

A random MLW poster could let the cops check their car for drugs tomorrow. Maybe the drugs are gone. Maybe they are or were in their other car. Maybe the drugs are or were in their friend's car. Just because the police don't find drugs in the car that they were told to look in doesn't mean that they didn't have any drugs in their possession yesterday. 

Quote

 This is in direct contrast to where on Trump said

What Trump said, in your quote, was 100% correct, and if the WHO had reason to believe that China was lying they should have said as much.

Quote

I'm hanging my hat on Trump's words.

You're showing signs of improvement. 

[WestCanMan]

It was just a couple days ago that the Chinese gov't increased their stated death toll in Wuhan upwards by 50%.

Anecdotal reports say that it's still much higher, and I don't have any reason to believe the Chinese government more than I would believe a guy with a tinfoil hat and a wand. 

The 64 trillion dollar question is, how much covid is in Beijing and Shanghai, and if it really isn't there, then why isn't it?  

On April 20th we're still at the steep end of the learning curve (studies like Stanford's Santa Clara one will tell us a LOT) and people are trying to hang Trump for Feb 20th lol. 

[eyeball]

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You were using your rag as proof. I pointed out that what was in your rag didn't constitute proof of anything.

That's why I switched rags.

You're showing signs of improvement.

You're not. 

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're not. 

No room.

[eyeball]

48 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

No room.

I know, you're just overflowing with post-it notes, strings, hallucinations and who knows what else.

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's not what I said at all....I said that hospitals are laying off staff because revenue is way down for elective procedures.

President Trump has provided guidance for opening up, and some states are doing so.

 

 

Ontario was already maxed out before COVID19, with patients in hallways and broom closets.

That’s absolute bullshit.  I haven’t been in hospitals like that here.  Republican propaganda. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I know, you're just overflowing with post-it notes, strings, hallucinations and who knows what else.

You're the one who's scouring the newsrags and getting sucked in by their propaganda. 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s absolute bullshit.  I haven’t been in hospitals like that here. 

Sorry but I have. The ER in this town is a 5 hour wait before the virus. My old neighbour died of a heart attack while he waited there. He woke up one morning and lost the vision in one eye. When I heard that, it was obvious to me he was having a stroke but he died in the ER after a 2-hour wait. It’s hard to justify with those symptoms. Yes there are people set up in hallways sometimes. I have seen it myself. The Canadian system is completely broken.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

You're the one who's scouring the newsrags and getting sucked in by their propaganda. 

Yeah... I mean, CATO and Forbes are practically subsidiaries of Pravda right?

[Zeitgeist]

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Sorry but I have. The ER in this town is a 5 hour wait before the virus. My old neighbour died of a heart attack while he waited there. He woke up one morning and lost the vision in one eye. When I heard that, it was obvious to me he was having a stroke but he died in the ER after a 2-hour wait. It’s hard to justify with those symptoms. Yes there are people set up in hallways sometimes. I have seen it myself. The Canadian system is completely broken.

Well while I respect your counter-example and can’t speak for it, the triage process does deal with at risk people quite efficiently.  Much of the waiting happens due to people going to hospitals with low-risk needs that can be dealt with by family doctors, clinics, or over the counter treatments.  At least that’s been the general consensus.  Again though, it depends where you are in the country and time of week to some degree.  On the whole, I’ll always bet on universal healthcare, supplemented by donations.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

 On the whole, I’ll always bet on universal healthcare, supplemented by donations.  

 

Italy has universal healthcare....how did that work out for COVID19 ?

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Italy has universal healthcare....how did that work out for COVID19 ?

Interesting that Biden made that point.  He’s a conservative next to Bernie. Mind you, Italy flouted social distancing guidelines and has a lot of elderly.  Big family gatherings and parties are a big part of the culture. Also, it was the first major western country hit hard.  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Sorry but I have. The ER in this town is a 5 hour wait before the virus. My old neighbour died of a heart attack while he waited there. He woke up one morning and lost the vision in one eye. When I heard that, it was obvious to me he was having a stroke but he died in the ER after a 2-hour wait. It’s hard to justify with those symptoms. Yes there are people set up in hallways sometimes. I have seen it myself. The Canadian system is completely broken.

What Canadian system? Canada's health systems are provincial.  Where Canada's health system's are broken the worst is almost entirely due to them being a political football that's always getting the shit kicked out of it. No wonder its half crippled.

I've seen lots of the provincial system where I live in BC and it's nothing like what you describe.  You're in Ontario and if the bitterness that's usually accompanied political dialogue amongst Ontarians around here is anything to go by I'm not surprised to hear your system is so buggered.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well while I respect your counter-example and can’t speak for it, the triage process does deal with at risk people quite efficiently.  Much of the waiting happens due to people going to hospitals with low-risk needs that can be dealt with by family doctors, clinics, or over the counter treatments.  At least that’s been the general consensus.  Again though, it depends where you are in the country and time of week to some degree.  On the whole, I’ll always bet on universal healthcare, supplemented by donations.  

No kidding.  I drove myself 100 kms to the hospital ER a where I live one Saturday and within twenty minutes I was on a bed being examined and before the hour was up I was plugged into machines that beeped, pumped and whirred and saved my life.  I was really sick but couldn't be bothered to take a weekday off work so.  I remember the doctor shaking his head at me and asked if I was some kind of dingbat who figured I'd just man up and die on the job like some self-respecting conservative?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No kidding.  I drove myself 100 kms to the hospital ER a where I live one Saturday and within twenty minutes I was on a bed being examined and before the hour was up I was plugged into machines that beeped, pumped and whirred and saved my life.  I was really sick but couldn't be bothered to take a weekday off work so.  I remember the doctor shaking his head at me and asked if I was some kind of dingbat who figured I'd just man up and die on the job like some self-respecting conservative?

Our local hospital is quiet and well appointed, but if you’re coming to hospital with a common cold, the doctor on call might take some precious time to do a round of visits to other patients before getting around to you.  They size up the seriousness pretty quick.  I’ve never seen neglect or poor care in the system, but all we know is our experiences and what we read or hear.  

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yeah... I mean, CATO and Forbes are practically subsidiaries of Pravda right?

You saw what they wrote. You figure it out. 

Is Dec 31 “late last year”?
Was ten seconds ago “earlier this year”?

Is Rosie O’Donnell “over 92 lbs”?

Sure. 
Just know when you’re getting bullshitted dude.
 

Heads up - there are no left-handed screwdrivers. 

[taxme]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:37 AM, Boges said:

So SARS was a really scary disease that had a much higher fatality rate and even it only killed 44 people in Toronto. 

Anyone thinking this disease is just another flu, are actually the deranged ones. You're seeing comparable annual deaths to the Flu in a matter of weeks. 

H1N1, a disease that Trump likes to mention in shifting the attention to Obama only saw 12,000 deaths https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates_2009_h1n1.htm

At the rate the US is going, Trump will be right, 100,000 deaths might be overly optimistic.

And I'm using stats from this site. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Not CNN or any biased media site. 

You have no idea as to how many people have died from this seasonal flu virus. You are only going by what your dear comrade leaders and the lying media are telling people like you have died from this scary flu bug. When you can come back with proof that more people have died from this scary flu bug and has killed more people than SARS did, then I may believe you. So go out there, and do your homework. It's a big task for you to have to do but I know that you can do it. Go! 

Deaths are nothing new when it comes to any virus. There are hundreds of thousands of people that die from some seasonal flu virus bug every year. Again, I will ask you as to why are the deaths from this virus more important to talk about than the deaths of people who will die from cancer or heart disease every year all over the world?

I think that I have a good idea why? It is because of the fake and lying media who is trying to make this virus out to be the plague that is going to kill us all if we do not practice social engineering and are being forced to not being allowed to our freedom of assembly. anymore as we once were able to do before this hoax came along. 

Can our politicians be allowed to continue to override and violate our Charter of Rights as they are doing today where our rights to the freedom of assembly are now being denied? We even have an MP who wants to make it a law that we cannot say anything critical about this China virus. Wth? Another law on the books? Why don't all of our dear comrade leaders just say that Canadians have no rights at all anymore. At least that way we will then know where our rights stand. Maybe then most thinking Canadians will see the communism in all of this happening.

As usual, here comes Trump into the picture again. When are leftist liberals like you ever going to give Trump a break. You lefty people can never get enough of trying to mock and attack Trump when your own dear leader comrades have done worse than Trump could ever do. Obamarama had 12,000 deaths on his watch. Maybe there would have been less deaths if he had given more interest in trying to destroy that H1N1 virus. 

It started at 40,000,000 deaths and now it is down to 60,000. Nowhere near 100,000. But we will never really know the real facts of how many people have died from this scary flu virus because the media and our politicians will no doubt try to inflate those numbers to try and keep getting people all into a state of panic and fear and control. That way our politicians can now use their bully tactics to make us all have to bend the knee to the power and glory that has now been bestowed on them. Get on your knees and bow your heads in front of your kings and queens you bunch of useless waste of breath people. Ha-ha-ha!   

Well, I will believe those facts if it has been found that all those facts of the amount of deaths from the China virus are all for real. Just remember that every year approx. 700,000 people die from some seasonal flu bug virus. So, those numbers have seen on Worldometer have a long way to go to catch up to the 700,000 numbers. I will never believe what CNN or the CBC has to say. They have been shown many times that they are not above telling lies or making up stories. FOX NEWS will point that out to you anytime, and FOX will not try to appear as though they are not being partisan. Believe it or not!.  

A joke going around, and it goes like this: "Trudeau says that we do not need American farmers for our food. We have grocery stores".   Yup, our dear comrade leader sure shows that he is a dandy all right. Lol.  

[taxme]

On 4/20/2020 at 1:58 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's not what I said at all....I said that hospitals are laying off staff because revenue is way down for elective procedures.

President Trump has provided guidance for opening up, and some states are doing so.

 

 

Ontario was already maxed out before COVID19, with patients in hallways and broom closets.

Why is anyone being laid off in the hospitals during these oh so trying virus times anyway? I heard of that happening but I just cannot believe it. Is there something in this virus picture that I am not getting yet? Help me someone. 

[taxme]

On 4/20/2020 at 3:30 PM, WestCanMan said:

It was just a couple days ago that the Chinese gov't increased their stated death toll in Wuhan upwards by 50%.

Anecdotal reports say that it's still much higher, and I don't have any reason to believe the Chinese government more than I would believe a guy with a tinfoil hat and a wand. 

The 64 trillion dollar question is, how much covid is in Beijing and Shanghai, and if it really isn't there, then why isn't it?  

On April 20th we're still at the steep end of the learning curve (studies like Stanford's Santa Clara one will tell us a LOT) and people are trying to hang Trump for Feb 20th lol. 

It's now getting to the point that we cannot trust anyone or any statistics that are being thrown out and around these days. The facts and figures keep going up and down like a yo-yo. No one seems to know as to just how many people are dying from this flu bug virus or are dying from some other disease where the person that may have died from a non-related flu virus but had the symptoms so they are now being lumped in with those people who are supposed to have died from this scary flu virus bug. I doubt that the way things are going now, we will never really know as to how many people really died from this scary flu virus. 

If there is anyone that needs to be quarantined it is those that call themselves liberals and socialists and pinko conservatives. Have you noticed that all the ones that are trying to make this flu virus bug so dangerous are those bunch of buffoons I mentioned above?

Look at all the states that have been locked down by their governors in America? They are all mostly democratic controlled states. Those governors all have a vested interest in working together with globalist deep state Bill Gates to try and take down Trump and his successful economy that Trump had built up and had going. It is believed that there is a battle going on and that this is all just a global plandemic exercise put on to see who will win a war between Trump and the deep state democratic globalists. Hey, we never know, eh?   

[Shady]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

No kidding.  I drove myself 100 kms to the hospital ER a where I live one Saturday and within twenty minutes I was on a bed being examined and before the hour was up I was plugged into machines that beeped, pumped and whirred and saved my life.  I was really sick but couldn't be bothered to take a weekday off work so.  I remember the doctor shaking his head at me and asked if I was some kind of dingbat who figured I'd just man up and die on the job like some self-respecting conservative?

Bullshit, any city with substantial population has 4, 5, 6, hour wait times, and that’s before the pandemic.  I went to the ER in London in December, waited 4 hours.  Nobody there was waiting 4 hours because they had the sniffles.  Only complete out of touch assholes think that way.  You live in a fantasy land of make believe.

[Shady]

20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Interesting that Biden made that point.  He’s a conservative next to Bernie. Mind you, Italy flouted social distancing guidelines and has a lot of elderly.  Big family gatherings and parties are a big part of the culture. Also, it was the first major western country hit hard.  

How about Spain then?  Or the UK?

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, Shady said:

Bullshit, any city with substantial population has 4, 5, 6, hour wait times, and that’s before the pandemic.  I went to the ER in London in December, waited 4 hours.  Nobody there was waiting 4 hours because they had the sniffles.  Only complete out of touch assholes think that way.  You live in a fantasy land of make believe.

Not in my case not that day.  I beeped away in ICU for nearly a week before they figured out what was wrong with me too.

Port Alberni has an un-substantial population compared to London but the hospital serves a large rural/wilderness region. It's a fairly new well-equipped hospital too.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

It's now getting to the point that we cannot trust anyone or any statistics that are being thrown out and around these days. The facts and figures keep going up and down like a yo-yo. No one seems to know as to just how many people are dying from this flu bug virus or are dying from some other disease where the person that may have died from a non-related flu virus but had the symptoms so they are now being lumped in with those people who are supposed to have died from this scary flu virus bug. I doubt that the way things are going now, we will never really know as to how many people really died from this scary flu virus. 

Exactly.

If Dr Ford was recording the cause of people's deaths would anyone believe what she marked down? If covid deaths make the POTUS look bad, there are doctors who would mark down covid all day. "Ooooh, the head is off. That's acute covid, the carrier was obviously from Europe."

7,700 people die every day in the US, covid peaked at 1,800 per day or something like that. There are roughly 1.1M doctors of medicine so statistically speaking there are 500,00 MDs with of the blue stripe. The chance that there aren't at least some deaths which are knowingly attributed to covid falsely is zero.