Will it be the virus that takes Trump down?

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Defunding the WHO is probably the stupidest public health measure to date.  Shut down international data collection and health measures so that...The lunatics are running the asylum.  

 

The United States has been the largest donor for years....but now China is running the show, so let China (and Canada) pay for it.

Collect all the data you want.

[OftenWrong]

15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, but

No yeah buts on that one. The flu is also seasonal.

[OftenWrong]

15 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 Many do not recover after intubated.

I'm glad you are posting these things for the general masses to glean insight from. Many do not recover, perhaps because they are 90 years old. In the good old days a wise and compassionate doctor would not try to implement such life-saving measures when they know, the treatment also causes suffering and the likelihood of it being beneficial versus the general health of the patient needs to be considered.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I'm glad you are posting these things for the general masses to glean insight from. Many do not recover, perhaps because they are 90 years old. In the good old days a wise and compassionate doctor would not try to implement such life-saving measures when they know, the treatment also causes suffering and the likelihood of it being beneficial versus the general health of the patient needs to be considered.

 

Well, as you have pointed out, a much larger disaster is looming if we do not get back to work.   More testing, drug therapies, vaccine research, masks, whatever is needed, but we cannot strangle ourselves to death because of covid fear.   Trump is right about this even if only for his own selfish political reasons.

The IMF is waking up to the reality of complete collapse for developing / third world nations, and added stress on first world nations that were already teetering on default (e.g. Italy).   Lack of  oil revenue will push some nations into chaos.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

No yeah buts on that one. The flu is also seasonal.

I don't know which post you quoted, but obviously there was a yeah but.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The United States has been the largest donor for years....but now China is running the show, so let China (and Canada) pay for it.

Collect all the data you want.

Undermine the health experts and organizations.  I guess you can pay a much higher price later on for the mismanagement today.  It’s got nothing to do with China.

[Boges]

Trump is just looking for Scapegoats. The Foreign WHO is as good as any. 

He was trying to make the Dem Governors a Scapegoat, but someone must have whispered in his ear that he was fixing for a Constitutional fight he'd likely lose. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

46 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I don't know which post you quoted, but obviously there was a yeah but.

If you click on the little arrow at the top right corner of quotes, it takes you back to the post.

[OftenWrong]

16 minutes ago, Boges said:

Trump is just looking for Scapegoats. The Foreign WHO is as good as any.

Trump is kicking ass where it's rightly deserved, and he does so unabashedly.
I like it. No, no wait... I love it.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

If you click on the little arrow at the top right corner of quotes, it takes you back to the post.

Thanks, I did that.  And what do you know, a perfectly reasonable yeah but!

[OftenWrong]

57 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Thanks, I did that.  And what do you know, a perfectly reasonable yeah but!

Yeah but  I gave you another perfectly reasonable one too.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Undermine the health experts and organizations.  I guess you can pay a much higher price later on for the mismanagement today.  It’s got nothing to do with China.

 

They have undermined themselves.   Screwed Taiwan too.

If you are so concerned, send them some of your own money at:

World Health Organization Headquarters

Avenue Appia 20
1211 Geneva

 

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t have to cite general knowledge.  Get your head out of the sand.

When you call CN and CBC talking points "general knowledge" that's like when your crazy aunt says that Bat Boy and Dolphin Girl are general knowledge because they were in the grocery store tabloids.. 

You still didn't find a single thing that Trudeau did before March 16th. Nothing. That's your homework Zeitgeist. Just prove that Trudeau did one thing that was useful prior to the 16th or stop spewing idiocy.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Undermine the health experts and organizations.  I guess you can pay a much higher price later on for the mismanagement today.  It’s got nothing to do with China.

Yeah Trump should keep paying them for their misinformation.

The US is trying to get to the bottom of why they were 100% wrong on every topic. That's it. Maybe their funding will be reinstated, maybe it won't be, but the US is lucky that they acted contrarily to the WHO's recommendations. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Trump is just looking for Scapegoats. The Foreign WHO is as good as any. 

He was trying to make the Dem Governors a Scapegoat, but someone must have whispered in his ear that he was fixing for a Constitutional fight he'd likely lose. 

It's not a scapegoat at all. Trump doesn't need one.

It's Canada that needs a scapegoat, because unlike the USA, Canada followed all of the WHO's bad advice to the letter.

Dr Tam could have just copied and pasted the WHO's recommendations for all I know. They were all in lock step.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

It's not a scapegoat at all. Trump doesn't need one.

It's Canada that needs a scapegoat, because unlike the USA, Canada followed all of the WHO's bad advice to the letter.

Dr Tam could have just copied and pasted the WHO's recommendations for all I know. They were all in lock step.

And look! Canada has a fraction of the cases and deaths per capita as the US. 

It looks like today's the day that US Deaths may move past total Canadian confirmed cases. 

BLAME WHO!!!!!

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[Boges]

Another notable stat from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

States like California and Texas, where cases seem relatively low are in the bottom of US States in testing per million. 

Though deaths per million are also relatively low. Makes one wonder if deaths aren't been attributed to COVID-19 because of scarcity of testing, even post mortem. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, Boges said:

And look! Canada has a fraction of the cases and deaths per capita as the US. 

It looks like today's the day that US Deaths may move past total Canadian confirmed cases. 

BLAME WHO!!!!!

We both know why the US death toll is higher ffs. You're making the most idiotic argument in human history.

The population of BC fits into the NYC subway every day. 50 workers from there died of covid. Their Lib mayor and his top health official were encouraging people to ride it as late as Feb 7th. 

They had Mardi Gras, they had a Superbowl. 

We got lucky. We took basically no action but Canada is continuously social distancing by virtue of our geography and small population.

If you don't understand these things that's your problem. Just don't act like the US has a higher death total because Trudeau did more than Trump, because we both know that Trump did far more, and he had the foresight to do it when the WHO was giving the opposite advice. 

If Trump had just gone along with the WHO like Trudeau did the US would be piled high with dead bodies.

[Boges]

19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

We both know why the US death toll is higher ffs. You're making the most idiotic argument in human history.

The population of BC fits into the NYC subway every day. 50 workers from there died of covid. Their Lib mayor and his top health official were encouraging people to ride it as late as Feb 7th. 

They had Mardi Gras, they had a Superbowl. 

We got lucky. We took basically no action but Canada is continuously social distancing by virtue of our geography and small population.

If you don't understand these things that's your problem. Just don't act like the US has a higher death total because Trudeau did more than Trump, because we both know that Trump did far more, and he had the foresight to do it when the WHO was giving the opposite advice. 

If Trump had just gone along with the WHO like Trudeau did the US would be piled high with dead bodies.

I wouldn't give JT too much credit. Though the Feds have worked to expand EI to help people out of work. I approve of their approach vs Trump sending cheques to everyone, no questions asked.  At least with the Canadian approach, it'll be investigated later if you qualified for help and that money will be clawed back. 

Premieres and Local Health organizations did what needed to be done relatively early. Conservative Doug Ford has even made Liberals grudgingly concede he's doing a good job. 

Regarding the number, a large percentage of Canadians lives in Cities. So the idea that we're all social distancing because of our land mass is incorrect and misguided.  
The GTA is one of the most densely populated places in North America. 

Regardless, all number should be considered in a Per Capita context. 

So if you may want to consider per million figures like done here. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The US is approaching 2000 cases per million and Canada is still under 1,000. Concerning deaths, Canada has 25 deaths per million vs 80+ for the US. 

What about Testing!!!!!?????? Canada is testing above 12,000 per million while the US is less than 10,000 per million. 

So then refer to New York. Previously New York made up over half the cases. Lousy Dems!!! Andrew Cuoma Sucks!!! Yes New York and New Jersey still make up a large portion of the cases and deaths. That share has dropped. Outbreaks are popping up in other places as well now. Notably Michigan, a swing state that Trump needs. So forcing an opening to the economy there wouldn't be wise. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[Boges]

It also should be considered that places that acted early (3 to 4 weeks ago) are now seeing a peaking/bending of the curve. New York/New Jersey included. Ontario is seeing a plateauing of new cases. 

There are places that didn't even consider Social distancing measures until mid-late March and for them the worst is likely yet to come. Some places in the The US have never considering Social Distancing measures. 

This is why Trump's plan to have a blanket opening of the economy is misguided. You'll have places that are experiencing a spike in cases able to travel to places that have may be on the down side of a peak. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

I wouldn't give JT too much credit. Though the Feds have worked to expand EI to help people out of work. I approve of their approach vs Trump sending cheques to everyone, no questions asked.  At least with the Canadian approach, it'll be investigated later if you qualified for help and that money will be clawed back. 

Premieres and Local Health organizations did what needed to be done relatively early. Conservative Doug Ford has even made Liberals grudgingly concede he's doing a good job. 

Regarding the number, a large percentage of Canadians lives in Cities. So the idea that we're all social distancing because of our land mass is incorrect and misguided.  
The GTA is one of the most densely populated places in North America. 

Regardless, all number should be considered in a Per Capita context. 

So if you may want to consider per million figures like done here. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The US is approaching 2000 cases per million and Canada is still under 1,000. Concerning deaths, Canada has 25 deaths per million vs 80+ for the US. 

What about Testing!!!!!?????? Canada is testing above 12,000 per million while the US is less than 10,000 per million. 

So then refer to New York. Previously New York made up over half the cases. Lousy Dems!!! Andrew Cuoma Sucks!!! Yes New York and New Jersey still make up a large portion of the cases and deaths. That share has dropped. Outbreaks are popping up in other places as well now. Notably Michigan, a swing state that Trump needs. So forcing an opening to the economy there wouldn't be wise. 

 

The GTA has 6M people in 7,100 sq km. 845 people per sq km.

NYC has 8.4M in less than 800 sq km. 10,500 people per sq km.

The population density of NYC is more than 12x that of the GTA. Almost 50% more people in 1/9th the space. 

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The GTA has 6M people in 7,100 sq km. 845 people per sq km.

NYC has 8.4M in less than 800 sq km. 10,500 people per sq km.

The population density of NYC is more than 12x that of the GTA. Almost 50% more people in 1/9th the space. 

I like how you used the CMA stats for Toronto but used the New York proper stats for New York to distort your figure. 

You're comparing a 100% urban environment to an area that's about 50% suburban. Check the people per people per sq ft  number for the 2 mil people that live in Toronto Proper or include the population density of say, Long Island, Staten Island etc. for New York's figure. 

Also, New York isn't just NYC, A lot of empty upstate New York to consider as well. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

It also should be considered that places that acted early (3 to 4 weeks ago) are now seeing a peaking/bending of the curve. New York/New Jersey included. Ontario is seeing a plateauing of new cases. 

There are places that didn't even consider Social distancing measures until mid-late March and for them the worst is likely yet to come. Some places in the The US have never considering Social Distancing measures. 

This is why Trump's plan to have a blanket opening of the economy is misguided. You'll have places that are experiencing a spike in cases able to travel to places that have may be on the down side of a peak. 

They're looking at all kinds of options for opening it incrementally. They have a separate task for set up for that. 

Trump has acknowledged that how he re-opens the economy is the most difficult/important decision he has ever made. 

Thousands to tens of thousands of people will die either way. They will die a prolonged, suffering, premature death from opening the economy too late but those stats will be harder to track than covid deaths. 

[Boges]

New York is the only city in New York State that has more than 500,000 people in it. 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-biggest-cities-in-new-york-state.html

Ontario has five with another 3 or 4 cities larger than New York's second largest city, Buffalo. 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-biggest-cities-in-ontario.html

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Boges

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

I like how you used the CMA stats for Toronto but used the New York proper stats for New York to distort your figure. 

You're comparing a 100% urban environment to an area that's about 50% suburban. Check the people per people per sq ft  number for the 2 mil people that live in Toronto Proper or include the population density of say, Long Island, Staten Island etc. for New York's figure. 

Also, New York isn't just NYC, A lot of empty upstate New York to consider as well. 

You're the one who stated GTA, I just got the stats that you mentioned. 

Toronto 2.9M in 630 sq km. 4,600 people per sq km. Still 57% lower than NYC. 

There are over 1M more people riding the NYC subway than live in Toronto.