Warning to All MLW Members - Fear and the Cronavirus

SpankyMcFarland · March 10, 2020

2 hours ago, taxme said:

As if Canada is also not taking in plenty of old age immigrants who will take up beds in hospitals if needed. No one over sixty should be allowed to immigrate to Canada and become a Canadian citizen.

In the province I live that’s not a big problem. With a few exceptions, the geezers are local.

Edited March 10, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

Moonlight Graham · March 10, 2020

1 hour ago, taxme said:

As if Canada is also not taking in plenty of old age immigrants who will take up beds in hospitals if needed. No one over sixty should be allowed to immigrate to Canada and become a Canadian citizen. And that goes for family reunions.

Only sick twisted unCanadian politicians would put the interests of old people who have lived in a foreign country their whole lives and contributed nothing over the health and well-being of elderly Canadians who have been here their whole lives or at least many decades. It's disgusting.

The Trudeau government quadrupled the annual acceptance of parents/grandparents reunification from 5000 under Harper to now 20,000. https://globalnews.ca/news/4912359/canada-family-reunification-program-under-fire/

Edited March 10, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

WestCanMan · March 10, 2020

6 hours ago, Argus said:

US hospital association telling its members to prepare for 500,000 deaths from the coronavirus.

http://archive.is/YaQ3k

It sounds like a lot, but IMO that's total fear-mongering. https://www.indexmundi.com/blog/index.php/2018/03/05/how-many-people-die-a-day-in-the-us/

Quote

According to the United Nations World Population Prospects report, approximately 7,452 people die every day in the United States. In other words, a person dies in the US approximately every 12 seconds.

In a normal 30-day month, 224,000 people die in the US. If the coronavirus pandemic lasts 2 months, 450,000 people would die in that time frame anyways. This pandemic was just getting started in January, so their 500K total is probably over a 3 or 4 month time frame. There would normally be 1,000,000 deaths in the US during the 4 months that the coronavirus pandemic would last, the coronavirus will probably bump that up by 1 or 2 hundred thousand, but the vast majority of those extra deaths will be people who weren't going to live 6 more months anyways.

I get that no one wants to lose 6 months of their life, even if they're of the bed-ridden variety, but I promise you that the people in the government who are pretending to give a crap don't actually give a crap. They're looking at this as something that will clear out a lot of long-term care people.

My honest opinion is still that this coronavirus is probably something that you want to get now if you're under 70 and you're not in the bottom 0.2% of your age demographic - healthwise. Much nastier versions of H1N1 have gone around before and this is just like a booster shot for people who are reasonable healthy.

Even the Spanish Flu, which ravaged populations all across the earth, didn't have much effect in China and it's thought to be because their population was exposed to various strains of H1N1 prior.

marcus · March 10, 2020

3 hours ago, taxme said:

As if Canada is also not taking in plenty of old age immigrants

Unfortunately I see a lot of fake news coming out of you and I let most of it slide. But as someone who works in the private immigration field, I feel that I need to step in and correct you on this one.

We actually have a very ageist immigration system. Majority of our immigrants are skilled workers and all skilled workers go through a competitive points system. One loses points if they are above 29 years old. The number of people coming in through parents sponsorships per year is 20,000. A small percentage of our immigrants and compared to most other Western countries, it's a very low number.

Edited March 10, 2020 by marcus

WestCanMan · March 10, 2020

52 minutes ago, marcus said:

Unfortunately I see a lot of fake news coming out of you and I let most of it slide. But as someone who works in the private immigration field, I feel that I need to step in and correct you on this one.

We actually have a very ageist immigration system. Majority of our immigrants are skilled workers and all skilled workers go through a competitive points system. One loses points if they are above 29 years old. The number of people coming in through parents sponsorships per year is 20,000. A small percentage of our immigrants and compared to most other Western countries, it's a very low number.

I don't think that taxme is being as accurate as you are when referring to "immigrants".

People come as refugees, immigrants, and some come because they are family members of people who already immigrated.

There are a lot of people who [gain citizenship through various channels] when they're already seniors.

marcus · March 10, 2020

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't think that taxme is being as accurate as you are when referring to "immigrants".

People come as refugees, immigrants, and some come because they are family members of people who already immigrated.

There are a lot of people who [gain citizenship through various channels] when they're already seniors.

The number of refugees are also very low, compared to the skilled workers coming in. I don't have the stats, but based on our firm's experience, the number of elderly refugees coming in, as compared to families with young kids, is much lower.

Seniors have no other way besides parents sponsorship and refugee to gain permanent residency. The only people who can sponsor the elderly are children or grandchildren and those are capped at 20K a year.

If you want to learn more about the numbers, go here.

If you have any questions about immigration, I'd be happy to answer them.

WestCanMan · March 10, 2020

14 minutes ago, marcus said:

The number of refugees are also very low, compared to the skilled workers coming in. I don't have the stats, but based on our firm's experience, the number of elderly refugees coming in, as compared to families with young kids, is much lower.

Seniors have no other way besides parents sponsorship and refugee to gain permanent residency. The only people who can sponsor the elderly are children or grandchildren and those are capped at 20K a year.

If you want to learn more about the numbers, go here.

If you have any questions about immigration, I'd be happy to answer them.

20K is still a lot of seniors. That comes with a hefty cost in medical benefits.

marcus · March 10, 2020

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

20K is still a lot of seniors. That comes with a hefty cost in medical benefits.

Potentially, even though each individual must pass a medical test before coming into Canada. So if they have any pre-existing conditions that will cost a lot, then they could become medically inadmissible.

I don't think 20K is a lot of people. It's a drop in the bucket. Especially when you take into consideration that majority of the 300K who are coming to Canada are young, educated, skilled and will bring a lot of productivity into Canada.

Michael Hardner · March 10, 2020

4 hours ago, marcus said:

If you want to learn more about the numbers, go here.

That's a laugh. These types of people are not interested in information, only disinformation and fear mongering. I regularly see comments that state our deficit is due to Trudeau's support for refugees.

The average informed voter has a duty to shout down these idiots and make it clear to politicians that this kind of populism doesn't work with you.

PIK · March 10, 2020

A few yrs ago it was reported that 25% of TO hosp beds were filled with elderly that just came to the country. One guy said he brought his elderly parents here to die with dignity. Nice , but die at home, not on my dime.

Argus · March 10, 2020

11 hours ago, marcus said:

Unfortunately I see a lot of fake news coming out of you and I let most of it slide. But as someone who works in the private immigration field, I feel that I need to step in and correct you on this one.

We actually have a very ageist immigration system. Majority of our immigrants are skilled workers and all skilled workers go through a competitive points system. One loses points if they are above 29 years old. The number of people coming in through parents sponsorships per year is 20,000. A small percentage of our immigrants and compared to most other Western countries, it's a very low number.

As someone whose livelihood does not depend on massive numbers of immigrants coming in, and can be more honest about it than people who do, this is, of course, self-serving bullshit.

Only a fraction of those who come in have any useful skill. The rest are family members. As to the elderly, the numbers were capped at 5,000 back in 2013 by the Tories because the average elderly immigrant used $200,000 in health care, and 25% were winding up on welfare. Trudeau offered to double it in the previous election if people from ethnic communities voted for him. Then he did the same in the last election. The only purpose of the offer was to get votes as this is certainly not in Canada's interest. Far from it. It places billions of dollars worth of additional pressure on our overloaded health care systems.

Most other western countries don't allow anywhere near as many immigrants as we do on a population basis because their political parties don't use offers of constant increases to garner votes from ethnic communities who want more of their own kind around.

Argus · March 10, 2020

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's a laugh. These types of people are not interested in information, only disinformation and fear mongering.

And the pro immigrant people are only interested in bringing in ever greater numbers of foreigners in order to feel noble and righteous in their inclusivity and respect for all cultures but our own.

WestCanMan · March 10, 2020

8 hours ago, marcus said:

Potentially, even though each individual must pass a medical test before coming into Canada. So if they have any pre-existing conditions that will cost a lot, then they could become medically inadmissible.

I don't think 20K is a lot of people. It's a drop in the bucket. Especially when you take into consideration that majority of the 300K who are coming to Canada are young, educated, skilled and will bring a lot of productivity into Canada.

You and Betsy are on two different topics.

She's talking about all new Canadians in general, you're talking specifically about immigration claimants.

Refugees are a massive tax burden.

WestCanMan · March 10, 2020

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's a laugh. These types of people are not interested in information, only disinformation and fear mongering. I regularly see comments that state our deficit is due to Trudeau's support for refugees.

The average informed voter has a duty to shout down these idiots and make it clear to politicians that this kind of populism doesn't work with you.

What's your net contribution to the discourse here Hardner, aside from chiming in with sandbox insults?

You never even have the balls to reply directly to my posts, you talk through replies to other people's posts and general posts because you know that you can't have a fact-based discussion for obvious reasons.

So how exactly would you go about shouting down idiocy Michael? Isn't that like putting out a fire with gasoline? Or doing flood reparations with a firehose?

Argus · March 10, 2020

8 hours ago, marcus said:

Potentially, even though each individual must pass a medical test before coming into Canada. So if they have any pre-existing conditions that will cost a lot, then they could become medically inadmissible.

Could be...

The cost per immigrant was pegged at $200,00 each 7 years ago. Given medical inflation that's now $250,000 X 20,000 = $5 billion per year in medical costs.

8 hours ago, marcus said:

I don't think 20K is a lot of people. It's a drop in the bucket. Especially when you take into consideration that majority of the 300K who are coming to Canada are young, educated, skilled and will bring a lot of productivity into Canada.

There is zero evidence to support any of that. The federal government has not done an actual study on the effects of immigration, on what immigration can accomplish or how best it can accomplish it in over forty years. That is because there is no economic reason for immigration on this scale. It's driven solely by politics, by politicians sucking up to the ethnic vote. And by the heavy lobbying and political donations of the immigration industry.

taxme · March 10, 2020

14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Only sick twisted unCanadian politicians would put the interests of old people who have lived in a foreign country their whole lives and contributed nothing over the health and well-being of elderly Canadians who have been here their whole lives or at least many decades. It's disgusting.

The Trudeau government quadrupled the annual acceptance of parents/grandparents reunification from 5000 under Harper to now 20,000. https://globalnews.ca/news/4912359/canada-family-reunification-program-under-fire/

The globalist feminist is one sick pathetic puppy and he is now the prime mistake dictator of Canada once again and all thanks to Toronto, the Maritimes, and BC. We are stuck with this anti-Canadian United Nations feminist forever now. Those parents and grandparents will be allowed to become Canadian citizen's after three years of living in Canada and they will be entitled to use our social and medical services for free, and who no doubt will vote for that fool that allowed and brought them all into Canada and we are starting to see what is meant be those three words "hell on earth". For conservatives like myself, the Budweiser, I mean Corona virus might as well knock us all off. Canada will not be a great place to be living in another decade or so. That 20, 000 could soon be 40,000 with this fool in power today. The Corona virus and who knows how many other viruses these old people will be bringing to Canada. Many of them have already brought some of their diseases with them from the countries that many have come from. Canada is doomed.

taxme · March 10, 2020

15 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

In the province I live that’s not a big problem. With a few exceptions, the geezers are local.

Give it time. Those foreign born old geezers will soon be coming your way by the thousands. How can this not happen when this fool of a PM wants to be able to bring in another several million more new immigrants in the next three years to Canada. Just because most people think that they live in the boonies somewhere that they are immune or that they should not worry then they are truly out to lunch. Your tax dollars will be bringing them your way. You will one day wish that all you could just see around you were your local old geezers. This is the real warning to all MLW members that should be heeded here. The Corona virus will be seen as peanuts to what is coming down the road. Just saying.

taxme · March 10, 2020

14 hours ago, marcus said:

Unfortunately I see a lot of fake news coming out of you and I let most of it slide. But as someone who works in the private immigration field, I feel that I need to step in and correct you on this one.

We actually have a very ageist immigration system. Majority of our immigrants are skilled workers and all skilled workers go through a competitive points system. One loses points if they are above 29 years old. The number of people coming in through parents sponsorships per year is 20,000. A small percentage of our immigrants and compared to most other Western countries, it's a very low number.

So, what happens when these old people start to get really sick and their sponsors cannot afford to look after them anymore? Will we just decide to send them back from whence they came after they have been here in Canada for say over five years or get the taxpayer's to pay for their hospital bills? Are you yourself going to help pay for their medical bills seeing that you appear to be quite in favor of these 20,000 a year or soon maybe even more as our population of foreign born new immigrants increases every year? You don't think that those old sponsored people will somehow not become a burden on the host Canadian taxpayer's tax dollars in time? It's time for people like yourself to wake the hell up from your Marxist dream world.

The trouble with liberals, socialists and communists is that they believe in a one world government with no borders, and because we have so many of these liberals, socialists, and communists running this country, things will only get worse. Those mentioned above appear to lack any common sense and logic and prefer to live in a world of emotionalism and social justice foolishness. That emotionalism and foolishness is what is killing this country. Let that be a warning to all MLW members as to how your tax dollars are working for you. The Corona virus will be nothing compared to what massive immigration will be doing to Canada in another decade or two. Just my opinion.

Rue · March 10, 2020

Did not take long for some of you to find scapegoats to blame this on. Predictable and pointless.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Rue

OftenWrong · March 10, 2020

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Did not take long for some of you to find scapegoats to blame this on. Predictable and pointless.

During the black plague, European villagers blamed the plague on the Jews. Rumours were spread that sinister long-nosed Jews were seen poisoning village wells, late at night. This fear and suspicion probably arose from the fact that the plague did not seem to affect the Jews as much as it did everyone else. This in turn was likely due to their culture, which advocated a higher level of cleanliness and hygiene compared to Europeans. See how that logic works?

SpankyMcFarland · March 10, 2020

3 hours ago, taxme said:

Give it time. Those foreign born old geezers will soon be coming your way by the thousands. How can this not happen when this fool of a PM wants to be able to bring in another several million more new immigrants in the next three years to Canada.

To Newfoundland and Labrador? Unlikely. We desperately need new people at the moment. At this rate, I could be the last man standing here.

OftenWrong · March 10, 2020

41 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We desperately need new people at the moment. At this rate, I could be the last man standing here.

Maybe we should invest more in the men who are here. I mean those who are laying around, and those young men who are looking for a future.

DogOnPorch · March 11, 2020

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

During the black plague, European villagers blamed the plague on the Jews. Rumours were spread that sinister long-nosed Jews were seen poisoning village wells, late at night. This fear and suspicion probably arose from the fact that the plague did not seem to affect the Jews as much as it did everyone else. This in turn was likely due to their culture, which advocated a higher level of cleanliness and hygiene compared to Europeans. See how that logic works?

"Here's one for you...."

"Nine pence."

"I'm not dead yet!"

"You're not fooling anyone..."

Michael Hardner · March 11, 2020

12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Maybe we should invest more in the men who are here. I mean those who are laying around, and those young men who are looking for a future.

Sure but... Are we talking about make work? They tend to bring in skilled workers from outside.

OftenWrong · March 11, 2020

41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure but... Are we talking about make work? They tend to bring in skilled workers from outside.

Not willing to discuss here. Off topic.

The Coronavirus reinforces the notion that nations should become more self-sufficient, especially to cope with emergencies. Trump et al are using it to further their MAGA/ anti-globalism message. Not just them however. China is also helping:

Quote

Last week, China's official news service published a piece gloating that the country has brought coronavirus under control. The story claims the rest of the world should apologize to China for criticizing the country over the virus and then drops this not very subtle warning, "If China retaliates against the United States at this time, in addition to announcing a travel ban on the United States, it will also announce strategic control over medical products and ban exports to the United States."

"If China announces that its drugs are for domestic use and bans exports, the United States will fall into the hell of a new coronavirus epidemic."

Sen. Marco Rubio on breaking US dependence on China for medical supplies

Canada must do likewise.