Tech Resources pulls plug on Frontier mine.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Whatever else JT is I betchya he's just as afraid of outlawing in-camera lobbying as his dad along with every other professional politician.  How do you feel about doing that btw?

I'm not sure that full transparency to the public is always good.  There's a certain amount of honest conversation that can't happen when everyone is around the table, especially in politically correct cancel culture.  People are so scared of saying something wrong that few are being honest.  This is happening because of the latest iteration of Temperance: Me Too.  It's not that there aren't many legitimate beefs behind Me Too, it's that, like the radical green movement or Reconciliation, these movements have become catchalls for everyone's grievances, no matter how petty or outlandish.  I'm tired of seeing people race to throw other people under the bus so they can be canceled by the new Salem Puritans.  I'm tired of this culture of oversensitivity and squeamishness over nothing.  Not sure I want to turn government over to the masses through outlawing in-camera discussion. Not everyone's opinion is of equal value.  We elect politicians to represent us.  Let them represent.  I do think we can move to direct democracy for many issues, using referenda, especially given the ease of digital polling/voting and our tremendous access to data resulting from technology, which makes many policy decisions quite clear. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I'm not sure that full transparency to the public is always good.  There's a certain amount of honest conversation that can't happen when everyone is around the table, especially in politically correct cancel culture.  People are so scared of saying something wrong that few are being honest. 

Yup that's what the kool aid pgk says.  Too effing bad I say.  Hilarious listening to a conservative defend PC while whining about it in the very next breath.

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I'm tired of this culture of oversensitivity and squeamishness over nothing.

 

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Not sure I want to turn government over to the masses through outlawing in-camera discussion. Not everyone's opinion is of equal value.  We elect politicians to represent us.  Let them represent. 

Well I certainly want to know if my representative is discussing anything in secret with frank people who don't mince words - like saying for example that the opposition want to treat indigenous people as animals in a nature reserve when stumping for your party's cause.  Let me guess NOW you're feeling squeamish and oversensitive.

 

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I do think we can move to direct democracy for many issues, using referenda, especially given the ease of digital polling/voting and our tremendous access to data resulting from technology, which makes many policy decisions quite clear.

Agreed.

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Really has nothing to do with my post, or current events.  If Klein had accepted the Carbon Tax, and agreement secured with all the chiefs instead of most of them I don't think we'd be here today. 

He did have agreement with all the chiefs. And how much did Rachel Notley's commitment to fighting climate change count with climate activists? They didn't treat Alberta one bit differently than they had before her or after her. Their commitment remained to end all oil sands development. Nothing the Alberta government can do is going to have the slightly impact on that.

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

He did have agreement with all the chiefs. And how much did Rachel Notley's commitment to fighting climate change count with climate activists? They didn't treat Alberta one bit differently than they had before her or after her. Their commitment remained to end all oil sands development. Nothing the Alberta government can do is going to have the slightly impact on that.

Who is 'he' ? The gas company ?

I don't think climate activists took Notley seriously either.

What about if Alberta had worked with the Federal government to work out a framework for managing Climate Change?

[Argus]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Who is 'he' ? The gas company ?

The province signed an agreement with all the native groups around the proposed Teck mine.

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think climate activists took Notley seriously either.

What about if Alberta had worked with the Federal government to work out a framework for managing Climate Change?

Notley did that, and as I recall Trudeau pronounced himself entirely satisfied. But that didn't buy Alberta any restraint in the unparalleled efforts to kill their oil sands development.

[Michael Hardner]

40 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. The province signed an agreement with all the native groups around the proposed Teck mine.

2. Notley did that, and as I recall Trudeau pronounced himself entirely satisfied. But that didn't buy Alberta any restraint in the unparalleled efforts to kill their oil sands development.

1. BC should have done that

2. Who are you saying killed it ?  Teck or Trudeau ?  And don't you think Teck took the current leadership into consideration ?  Wasn't their announcement made the same day the Alberta court deemed the Carbon Tax highly illegal ?

[Argus]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. BC should have done that

They did.

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2. Who are you saying killed it ? 

I said efforts to kill the entire oil sands, not just this particular project. Environmental groups, esp those controlled and funded by Americans, have put a lot of money and effort into land-locking the oil sands to help shut them down. They've spent millions of dollars in subsidizing legal attacks and demonstrations against all pipelines leading out of western Canada in any direction and in trying to get the oil sands completely shut down.

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And don't you think Teck took the current leadership into consideration ?  Wasn't their announcement made the same day the Alberta court deemed the Carbon Tax highly illegal ?

I think Teck took a variety of things into consideration, but from the sound of their press release they simply found Canada too politically unstable for further investment in resource projects. I mean, when you spend almost 10 years going through all the hearings and investigations and reports and studies and arguments and lawsuits and native consultations and agreements and are still looking at more legal attacks, more efforts to block pipelines so you have to sell at below-market prices (most of the Democrats running for president have promised to close down the keystone pipeline) and then civil strife, including sabotage, and maybe more problems from the 'hereditary rulers' of THESE natives, even if the government finally grants you permission, it's just easier to say screw Canada, shut down and invest somewhere else where you can make a profit.

We are a resource country. There needs to a a clear, short route to developing new resource projects. Ten years just does not cut it. Especially when at the end of ten years you get all this nonsense still ahead of you.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Argus

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, Argus said:

We are a resource country. There needs to a a clear, short route to developing new resource projects.

There is, reconciliation. No guarantees on short but definity clearer. 

10 years just does not cut it. Especially when at the end of ten years you get all this nonsense still ahead of you.

Well,  after a couple decades of screwing the pooch on reconciliation thus far you should probably prepare yourself for another 10 years just to do that first.

Trust me this will still be faster than dismantling the Constitution rejigging confederation tearing up treaties etc etc.

I bet the old NEP is starting to look better in hindsight eh? Oh well it just doesn't look like Alberta or conservatives generally have figured out that kicking and screaming is not that constructive a strategy.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

There is, reconciliation. No guarantees on short but definity clearer. 

I guarantee you have no idea what reconciliation even means. It's just a word you heard being bleated by activists.
From what I can garner it means the complete surrender of this country to native tribes, and giving them control over the economy, laws and land. That's certainly what many of THEM seem to mean by 'reconciliation'. Well, I'm not about to become a second class citizen in some sort of apartheid land ruled by a tiny minority of people. And I guarantee you most Canadians feel the same.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Well,  after a couple decades of screwing the pooch on reconciliation thus far you should probably prepare yourself for another 10 years just to do that first.

Trust me this will still be faster than dismantling the Constitution rejigging confederation tearing up treaties etc etc.

On the contrary. With the natives causing enough anger and backlash and with conservative governments in power you can pass a constitutional amendment in no time removing all native title to all lands and exempting all of it from the courts. Then we can repeal the Indian act, close down the reserves and start bringing natives into the cities to get jobs and maybe have lives.

 

 

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

I guarantee you have no idea what reconciliation even means.

I've been to reconciliation meetings Argus.

Are you planning on spending the next 30 years stamping your stupid feet screaming at everyone that you're the only one who knows what's happening when you haven't even read UNDRIP?

Get a fucking grip ffs.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I've been to reconciliation meetings Argus.

Are you planning on spending the next 30 years stamping your stupid feet screaming at everyone that you're the only one who knows what's happening when you haven't even read UNDRIP?

Get a fucking grip ffs.

I've seen enough absurd demands in UNDRIP to dismiss it out of hand, along with anyone who advocates it. If you hand-wringing, bleeding heart lefties are so filled with remorse and guilt and shame over what was done to the natives then give them all your wealth, presuming you have any, and emigrate.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I guarantee you have no idea what reconciliation even means. It's just a word you heard being bleated by activists.
From what I can garner it means the complete surrender of this country to native tribes, and giving them control over the economy, laws and land.

The Provincial Ministry I work with is very involved in reconciliation; we are required to take training and apply the concepts daily.  Your "garnering" is so far off track, its laughable.  You should consider knowing what you are talking about before bleating about what it means.   

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The Provincial Ministry I work with is very involved in reconciliation; we are required to take training and apply the concepts daily.  Your "garnering" is so far off track, its laughable.  You should consider knowing what you are talking about before bleating about what it means.   

It somehow doesn't surprise me that such an effort would be peopled by cringing, guilt-ridden lefties who probably cry every time they think of what a shameful past Canada has. I'd certainly never trust the likes of you to deal with natives on any subject whatever. It'd be like asking a Muslim religious fanatic to negotiate with Muslims on our behalf. Everyone in the country would soon be wearing burkas and beards. And I know what your 'training' involves. Did you get to hold the feather and cry in remorse and promise you'd try to do better at being an evil settler?

Edited February 26, 2020 by Argus

[taxme]

On 2/25/2020 at 7:08 AM, dialamah said:

It's your precious environment too, which you'll perhaps realize when it's gone.

Sorry, but I do not get all excited and into a panic like you do over something that may or may not happen in the future. Why people like you allow yourselves to get your knickers all wet over something that may happen by the end of the century is silly. 2 degrees rise in temperature in the next 100 years from now is not something I am going to worry about today. I have better things to worry about than some rise in temperatures. We should all worry about companies like Tech pulling the plug on thousands of jobs that could have been created if it were not for some Indian bands and eco-terrorists. Those terrorists need to be jailed and the key thrown away. Works for me. 

[taxme]

On 2/24/2020 at 2:09 PM, Argus said:

Into the toilet?

.For a lot of natives. It would have provided 2500 long term, well paid jobs. But yes, it would have emitted CO2 - 25% more CO2 than a pair of cement factories which were recently built in Ontario and Quebec, which faced no environmental hearings, which the Quebec government exempted from environmental regulations, and which will produce perhaps 250 jobs. But... they were jobs in Quebec and Ontario. So everyone rushed them through without questioning anything.

But only in Canada. Nowhere else. Hundreds of coal fired power plants going up, new coal fields opening up, places around the world spewing away happily and making money out of it. But no, only Canada must do this, beggar ourselves, while others play. Because... well, we're so gosh darn noble!

 

 

Or perhaps build rocket ships, or make office chairs or something? It doesn't work that way. They're a resource company, and they said that Canada is too politically unstable for resource development at this time. That's the sort of language they usually use for third world companies who have guerrila war problems. No, they'll find a third world country with more stability and invest money and create jobs there.

It's always about Quebec and Ontario, especially Quebec, where the french can do whatever the hell they please without any question. No one will ever question Quebec as to what it does. Why, that would be seen as being anti-Quebec, and no one wants to be called those words. the rest of Canada have become captive to Quebec politics and greed and control. The french really do run and rule over Canada. There can be no doubt about that. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by taxme

[SkyHigh]

3 minutes ago, taxme said:

It's always about Quebec and Ontario, especially Quebec, where they can do whatever the hell they want without any question. No one will ever question Quebec as to what it does. W

Vue que la qualité de votre anglais est si pitoyables, je peux avec tout confiance, dire que je suis sûr que ton français n'est pas a un niveau suffisant d'avoir une opinion valide par rapport au Québec

[taxme]

4 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Vue que la qualité de votre anglais est si pitoyables, je peux avec tout confiance, dire que je suis sûr que ton français n'est pas a un niveau suffisant d'avoir une opinion valide par rapport au Québec

Now would you like to translate all of that above into English so others here who do not understand that foreign french language, a french foreign slang language that was allowed to be spoken in Canada, and given equal status with the English language. En Anglais.    

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

It somehow doesn't surprise me that such an effort would be peopled by cringing, guilt-ridden lefties who probably cry every time they think of what a shameful past Canada has.

If you're so ashamed of Canada in the present why don't you just leave? There must still be a country somewhere on the planet where everything is run by proud white conservatives and where non-whites are grateful and obedient.

[SkyHigh]

20 minutes ago, taxme said:

Now would you like to translate all of that above into English so others here who do not understand that foreign french language, a french foreign slang language that was allowed to be spoken in Canada, and given equal status with the English language. En Anglais.    

Your complete and utter ignorance to all topics is so absolute it's almost impressive.

Honest question, are the views you express on this forum your genuine beliefs, or is this a character you play for amusement? 

[Army Guy]

On 2/25/2020 at 4:28 PM, Zeitgeist said:

What made you think Trudeau was anything more that a professional politician?  He’s very good at marketing himself and does have a brand, love him or hate him.  He does what’s expedient.  His dad was a visionary for what Canada could be and was ruthless in his means to hammer it through.  Junior is more style than substance, though he’s a pretty good orator.  He’s not afraid of town halls.  He tried to be too many things to too many people.  

Even a trained monkey can read a cue card, his message is repeated over and over to every question, and his umms and aaahhhs are maddening,  good orator Gilligan from Gilligan's island was a good orator as well. 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 2/25/2020 at 12:35 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

No worries, as Canada is definitely not a leader on emissions reductions....now or before.

Really?  Seems like Canada is becoming a leader in how much GDP per capita it's throwing out the window in the name of reducing GHG.  Teck Frontier's project was going to make up 8% of total oil sands production.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Really?  Seems like Canada is becoming a leader in how much GDP per capita it's throwing out the window in the name of reducing GHG.  Teck Frontier's project was going to make up 8% of total oil sands production.

 

That's the funny part...even with all the project shutdowns, Canada is still not leading on emissions reductions.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's the funny part...even with all the project shutdowns, Canada is still not leading on emissions reductions.

Who leads in emissions reductions per capita?

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Who leads in emissions reductions per capita?

 

Probably Denmark...reducing emissions per-capita better than Canada or the United States.

[Rue]

I support environmental safeguards but to think shutting down this potential work saves the planet or deals with the environmental issues is just not the case. Its the opposite. It in fact empowers worse polluters elsewhere.  The idea you can't exploit any natural resources without it being evil is just not the cas

Keeping the country without any economic activity from which to generate profit to finance environmental research makes no sense or cents. I get protecting the environment but we need a balanced approach. You can't give birth (to new ideas) when you don't engage in intercourse (with industry).

Edited February 27, 2020 by Rue