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What to do about China


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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm not left and it's the method I don't agree with not the policies.  Emotive wails, without any reason... not a way to set policy.

I suggest there is a reason for it. For every political action, an equal and opposite political reaction and then some, my pappy used to say.   ;)

Not the left you say. And yet here,,, you defend China?

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On 12/21/2020 at 9:58 AM, Army Guy said:

One has to admit, just the idea of having any military connections with China is a terrible idea.

It seems as though we're on the path to becoming their vassal at some point in the future. Maybe this will soften the eventual blow. 

The US is imploding like every other dynasty before it, and China will get tired of paying for our food eventually. They'll also get tired of living with 35x our population density. 

Quote

The Liberals, NDP have become masters at this type of politics as well, look at the campaign they were involved with that tore apart Scheer's character by planting the idea that his religious back ground would some how threaten his choices on LGBT community and the abortion ideas, the media took that all the way to the bank.. 

As far as Trudeau's Media Toadies are concerned, this is a 1-party state and the conservative party is a foreign army at the gates.

 

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52 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I suggest there is a reason for it. For every political action, an equal and opposite political reaction and then some, my pappy used to say.   ;)

Not the left you say. And yet here,,, you defend China?

There is a reason, but whatever your pappy is trying to say is not the reason for a decline in quality of dialogue.

I have not defended China.  You are deficient, and your sloppiness here is a perfect example of the problem.  You're starting to wonder if you agree with me or not so you can apply binary thinking.

Kill this kind of politics now.

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9 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

At Kap-Yong, the Canadian Army fought the Communist Chinese to a draw with a 1-100 kill ratio. That conflict never ended and we're still technically at war with Mao's regime. But, yeah...let's pretend none of that happened. The Reds are our friends!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kapyong

The Only unit in Canadian history to be awarded the Presidential unit citation, for their actions in this battle every member in 2 PPCLI wears a blue tab on their shoulder on their dress uniform. 

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53 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It seems as though we're on the path to becoming their vassal at some point in the future. Maybe this will soften the eventual blow. 

The US is imploding like every other dynasty before it, and China will get tired of paying for our food eventually. They'll also get tired of living with 35x our population density. 

As far as Trudeau's Media Toadies are concerned, this is a 1-party state and the conservative party is a foreign army at the gates.

 

What scares me is I don't think the majority of Canadians would even care, atleast from what I have seen todate... or at the very least stand up and let their opinion be known.

China does not have the military might to carry our a massive invasion here in the west, although they do have the largest navy in the world, which is why the US is concerned about its current size. China has pissed off a lot of countries that could counter anything China could muster...

I don't think it stops at the Liberal party, i think the majority of Canadians are quit happy being spoon fed all this cash, and will follow Justin like lemmings. It's the conservatives who really need to get their camp in order just to survive. attacking them at every chance in the house of commons is not working... it actually driving people away, it accomplishes nothing.. the left does not want to hear it, or act upon it, Justin could shit in every liberals pants and they would shrug it off. The conservatives need another approach , but then again we all know that.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

There is a reason, but whatever your pappy is trying to say is not the reason for a decline in quality of dialogue.

I have not defended China.  You are deficient, and your sloppiness here is a perfect example of the problem.  You're starting to wonder if you agree with me or not so you can apply binary thinking.

Kill this kind of politics now.

My question to you is more fundamental, has nothing to do with my Pappy neither.

Real question is when will you, yourself, stop playing me and start discussing the actual topic at hand. To which I have led you three times now. And yet... you persist in calling me a bad poster, a bad man. I am deficient. I am of low quality discussion...

All of which is exactly the kind of politics you bemoan. You are a miracle, MH. :lol:

You have not defended China. You have not said much at all about China though. What exactly is your position on China?

:lol:

 

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Just now, OftenWrong said:

1. My question to you is more fundamental, has nothing to do with my Pappy neither.

2. Real question is when will you, yourself, stop playing me and start discussing the actual topic at hand. To which I have led you three times now. And yet... you persist in calling me a bad poster, a bad man. I am deficient. I am of low quality discussion...

3. All of which is exactly the kind of politics you bemoan. You are a miracle, MH. :lol:

4. You have not defended China. You have not said much at all about China though. What exactly is your position on China?

:lol:

 

1. In that case, I don't know exactly what's causing it but I have some ideas.
2. ? Didn't you wade into this with me with the following: "As usual the left seeks to execute those they don't agree with, because they do not understand."  I responded to the topic at hand on p19, when people did the usual bad politics to insinuate that the present government did something really stupid, without adequate information or context.  I don't have the answer, as I said, as to why there was any advantage in training with China.
3. No - my kind of politics includes pointing out retarded arguments, and retarded behaviour.
4. Somewhere back on these pages I submitted a mealy-mouthed... "proceed with caution" or somesuch.  I don't have much more but I certainly can pick out bad arguments if I like.


 

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55 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

What scares me is I don't think the majority of Canadians would even care, atleast from what I have seen todate... or at the very least stand up and let their opinion be known.

China does not have the military might to carry our a massive invasion here in the west, although they do have the largest navy in the world, which is why the US is concerned about its current size. China has pissed off a lot of countries that could counter anything China could muster...

The US is like the PG-13 hero with striated pipes, a black belt, and a soft heart. It's Jason Statham without the accent. 

China's military may still be in second place, but they're more like Scarface. They're ruthless and they don't get distracted by the loss of lives.

Think of Mao's carnage of the middle of the 20th century, the population-curbing measures of the late 20th century, and the modern-day re-education camps. The Chinese are the Chinese, they're not a loosely-affiliated collection of self-interest groups like America is becoming. 

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog", and America is more like two dogs fighting each other. 

Burn the flag, screw the anthem America is like late-stage Rome imo.

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20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It's the conservatives who really need to get their camp in order just to survive. attacking them at every chance in the house of commons is not working... it actually driving people away, it accomplishes nothing.. the left does not want to hear it, or act upon it, Justin could shit in every liberals pants and they would shrug it off. The conservatives need another approach , but then again we all know that.

We know something is wrong but have no solution. Sure there will always be problems, but what we are seeing is a large scale general drift in the wrong direction. We know it's wrong because it threatens society itself. It threatens law and order, and wants to re-write history. Canadians are complacent politically, but bhen the narrative turns toward dismantling the state it's time to pay more attention.

19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

America is like late-stage Rome imo.

Yes, interesting parallel and it could also be that any civilization has a natural life-cycle, and ours has entered the late stages and is in decline. There could be a natural tendency towards socialism, as it seems to benefit society by helping the more needy to cope with their dilemma. The longer a society continues, the greater the pressure and trend towards socialism. Societies thrive for longer if this trend is slowed down, and that depends on the strength of the right wing. Really, both political "sides" must be healthy and cooperative to achieve social good health.

Over time as things evolve and become more complicated, political elements gain power and influence leading to a stalemate situation. Each "side" opposing the others work and initiatives. Politicians and lawyers cannot come to agreement on anything. The state is failing.

Outside the gate, barbarians are ready and they are looking for ways to help us fail, in our decline. The Chinese have made it their mission to achieve global dominance and in doing so take away what we consider to be liberty, and to attack our political system. Attack the right wing, and turn the left into a tool for their purposes.

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41 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Good heavens, an actual member of the literati...

Actually I only had 1 warning point until Sept 11, 2017 (which I call 'my September 11th')

My definitive post in China came Dec 31, 2003.

 

"Where would you rather live - Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China or France ?"

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

My content count on this site is 32,461 contributions - go ahead, and fill your boots.

Count and content are two different things . . . . . congratulations on 32,461 postings. Great count, no doubt about it. Content is another matter entirely . . . . yours could be summed up in a short paragraph.  Again, a great short paragraph it would be.  Carry on Mike, and have a safe, happy holiday

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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Actually I only had 1 warning point until Sept 11, 2017 (which I call 'my September 11th')

My definitive post in China came Dec 31, 2003.

 

"Where would you rather live - Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China or France ?"

 

Clearly you are very important.

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The fate of the Uighurs and Tibetans should teach us what we need to know about China under the CCP. Years ago in Diyarbakir, Turkey, an elderly Armenian remarked to some Kurdish children who were teasing him, “We were the breakfast for them, you will be the lunch”.

 

www.newyorker.com

A Century of Silence

After nearly a century, a town at the center of the Armenian genocide tries to make amends. Raffi Khatchadourian reports from his grandfather’s home town.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com



As Chinese debt diplomacy spreads, more countries will find themselves in Imran Khan’s awkward position:
 

 

www.businessinsider.com

Pakistani leader Imran Khan admitted he refuses to criticize China's treatment of its Uighur minority because they 'helped us when we were at rock bottom'

Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan has been a vocal critic of the mistreatment of Muslims globally, but has been silent on the Chinese persecution of Uighurs.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
www.independent.co.uk

More than 35 countries defend China over mass detention of Uighur Muslims in UN letter

State ambassadors praise Beijing's 'remarkable achievements in the field of human rights'
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

‘Remarkable achievements’ is right and we ain’t seen nothing yet.
 
 

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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There are 3 levels that we engage with China upon:  Economic, Political/diplomatic and Military.

The whole diplomatic reason for dealing with China in the first place was the concept that if they became our trading partner, they would be less likely to remain a military opponent.  Our politicians and diplomats were so inept at seeing much beyond the end of their nose they did the right thing by inviting China to export to us, but did the VERY wrong thing by not making it conditional to gain only access for products made to environmental, safety, quality and human rights standards that Canadian could accept.   We did this out of pure ignorance and stupidity, whereas the Yanks did out of arrogance and ignorance.   I have been watching China from a ringside seat starting in mid 90s, and way back then, I had learned enough about China (my business partner had dealt with the Chinese government for more than 30 years by then) to realize that the light at the end of that tunnel was a very big train that was going to run over the US (I thought in 50 years, but cut that in half in reality).

One thing common to China under whatever system of government is that there is precious little regard for human life or rights.  Another thing that Westerners never seem to appreciate is that China has never been closer to being one whole country than it is right now.  It will NOT stop until has all of its component pieces together until it has absorbed Taiwan, one way or another.  What is common to Canada is that we have maintained a standing army and a reserve force for over a century that is based upon the idea of defending countries where human rights and lives are threatened, not aiding them in their expansion.  China has no need to invade Canada, it will simply buy us...with our own money.  But to invite the Chinese military in - you know, the same people who maintain a MASSIVE digital intelligence gathering network that steals IT and IP by the terrabyte every hour - is little short of treason.

While I have great respect and even admiration for what the post Mao governments that Deng put on course and have achieved, I am also highly aware of the Chinese military - my Father-in-law was a PPCLI vet who fought in Korea.  It is very appropriate to not just respect China, but to fear it as well.  They simply don't fight by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

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5 minutes ago, cannuck said:

  We did this out of pure ignorance and stupidity, whereas the Yanks did out of arrogance and ignorance...

...China has no need to invade Canada, it will simply buy us...

 

What do you think the USA has done in Canada....far longer than China.   50% of Canada's manufacturing base is owned by U.S. corporations.   Petroleum/bitumen production too.

GM now sells more cars in China than in all of North America.

Canada couldn't stop the Americans, and it sure as hell can't stop China.

 

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

What do you think the USA has done in Canada....far longer than China.   50% of Canada's manufacturing base is owned by U.S. corporations.   Petroleum/bitumen production too.

GM now sells more cars in China than in all of North America.

Canada couldn't stop the Americans, and it sure as hell can't stop China.

 

China already had its way with GM (it owns an absolute MINIMUM of 50% of the tangled web of companies, in many cases much more).   It also pulled a lot of other GM Asian business INTO China.  China is well on its way to owning the USA as well (take a look at general aviation - most of the big names and several of the smaller ones are 100% Chinese owned now - and so it goes in MANY industries).  You are right: Canada can't stop anyone (serious case of no balls and not much better for brains) but the US can't and won't either.

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6 minutes ago, cannuck said:

China already had its way with GM (it owns an absolute MINIMUM of 50% of the tangled web of companies, in many cases much more).   It also pulled a lot of other GM Asian business INTO China.  China is well on its way to owning the USA as well (take a look at general aviation - most of the big names and several of the smaller ones are 100% Chinese owned now - and so it goes in MANY industries).  You are right: Canada can't stop anyone (serious case of no balls and not much better for brains) but the US can't and won't either.

 

The U.S. owns far more of Canada's base than China's ownership of the USA, and Canada actively solicits such investment as a matter of policy (foreign direct investment).   Canada lacks sufficient domestic capital to do otherwise.

Welcome to the larger globalism debate...but you don't get to pick and choose which big fish get to eat which small fish.

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