What to do about China

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The U.S. owns far more of Canada's base than China's ownership of the USA,

so far.  Now that the dum...ah,,,,DEMmycrats are back in power, it will continue to get larger.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, cannuck said:

so far.  Now that the dum...ah,,,,DEMmycrats are back in power, it will continue to get larger.

 

Doesn't matter....Democrats or Republicans....Liberals or Conservatives.   Capital flows across international borders freely and will continue to do so.   China's economy is still far more dependent on manufacturing compared to the U.S. or Canada as a percentage of GDP.

[cannuck]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter....Democrats or Republicans....Liberals or Conservatives.   Capital flows across international borders freely and will continue to do so.   China's economy is still far more dependent on manufacturing compared to the U.S. or Canada as a percentage of GDP.

Which is precisely why China is in a financial position to do as it wants.   Manufacturing creates wealth - Casino Capitalism (what now dominates the US economy) creates no wealth, only wealth re-distribution.   Greed has killed the geese that laid the US's golden eggs.   The inscrutable and endlessly calculating and patient Chinese will pick up the pieces.   Come back to me after you have been in business for 25 years in China.

Edited December 28, 2020 by cannuck

[Moonlight Graham]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Welcome to the larger globalism debate...but you don't get to pick and choose which big fish get to eat which small fish.

Of course you do.  Country's do it constantly.  China does it more than just about anybody.

[Moonlight Graham]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter....Democrats or Republicans....Liberals or Conservatives.   Capital flows across international borders freely and will continue to do so.

Capital flows across borders only so much as any country allows it.  It's a matter of specific policy.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[bush_cheney2004]

20 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Which is precisely why China is in a financial position to do as it wants.   Manufacturing creates wealth - Casino Capitalism (what no dominates the US economy) creates no wealth, only wealth re-distribution.   Greed has killed the geese that laid the US's golden eggs.   The inscrutable and endlessly calculating and patient Chinese will pick up the pieces.   Come back to me after you have been in business for 25 years in China.

 

I did "business" in China 25 years ago....voluntarily for mutual benefit...worked out well.   If you are afraid of competition then you have already lost the battle.

The U.S. economy/GDP is only 11% manufacturing.   The "wealth" comes from many other sectors.

Edited December 28, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Capital flows across borders only so much as any country allows it.  It's a matter of specific policy.

 

How's that working for Canada ?

[Cannucklehead]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

How's that working for Canada ?

How's our oil your using?  

[bush_cheney2004]

27 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

How's our oil your using?  

 

Landlocked with only one buyer.   Canada buys it back at higher prices because it won't invest in refineries.

[Cannucklehead]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Landlocked with only one buyer.   Canada buys it back at higher prices because it won't invest in refineries.

 

Sorry but thats incorrect.  Better luck next time!

 

Let’s look at five reasons Canada imports crude oil from foreign sources.

 

1. Proximity of abundant U.S. supplies means lower transportation costs for eastern refiners. “The biggest reason we import oil is the simple fact that a lot of U.S. production is closer to eastern markets than supplies from western Canada,” says David Layzell, Director, Canadian Energy Systems Analysis Research (CESAR) Initiative.
2. There are no oil pipelines that go to New Brunswick, which is home to Canada’s largest refinery – the Irving Refinery. So, they import foreign oil that’s shipped by tanker to their deep-water port at a lower cost than transporting oil from western Canada by trucks or rail.
3. There’s also a shortage of pipelines to take oil to the other Atlantic provinces and to Quebec. Alternative transportation options to get oil from western oil producing provinces are less cost-effective for refiners than imports.
4. Most eastern Canadian refineries are unable to process the heavy crude oil (bitumen) that comes out of the Athabasca Oil Sands in Alberta. So, although crude oil from western Canada sells at a discounted price, the refining process can still be more complex and costly.
5. The CERI report points out that western Canada also imports oil products. Oil sands producers use these imports, which are mostly natural gas condensates from the U.S., to dilute bitumen so that it can be transported by pipeline.

https://www.aboutpipelines.com/en/blog/does-canada-have-enough-refining-capacity/

 

• Canada is self-sufficient in refined petroleum products. In fact, we make enough to supply our own domestic needs, and we export some, primarily to the United States.
• Refined products include aviation fuel, asphalt for roads, propane and butanes, kerosene and stove oil. Also, they include feedstocks for making plastic, which eventually become medical supplies, household items and much more.
• Every day, pipelines safely move most of Canada’s refined petroleum products to get them to customers.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

 

Sorry but thats incorrect.  Better luck next time!

 

 

Sorry, but it is correct.    Canada struggles to get bitumen or refined products to export markets other than the United States because it lacks the capital and will to do so.   That's why Alberta wants to send more bitumen to upgraded refineries vis pipeline to the United States.  And this is also why Canada's "oil" is sold at a steep discount....no market leverage.

East - west pipeline battles and other inter-provincial barriers rage on, while complaining about China.   It's the Canadian way.

[cannuck]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but it is correct.    Canada struggles to get bitumen or refined products to export markets other than the United States because it lacks the capital and will to do so.   That's why Alberta wants to send more bitumen to upgraded refineries vis pipeline to the United States.  And this is also why Canada's "oil" is sold at a steep discount....no market leverage.

East - west pipeline battles and other inter-provincial barriers rage on, while complaining about China.   It's the Canadian way.

The Yankee Troll is right about most of this.   Biggest problem we have is the blockage of the Keystone pipeline completion and the inevitable failure of the Trans-Mountain expansion.  That forces product into rail cars, that cuts the price of heavy crudes at the wellhead a good $10 a bbl.  We DO have the financial ability to build the necessary pipelines, but we do NOT have the political will and educated/reasonable population to pull it off.  BTW: yes, WCS blends are discounted heavily, but I see almost exactly the same seasonal price for Wyoming Heavy Sour - other than the rare outlier condition that is usually a short term transient.

To make matter worse: there IS a safe way to ship undiluted bitumen to Asian markets by rail (in 20' containers and container tanks) that is quite cost competitive.   Container ships come here to dump endless hundreds of thousands of containers full of Chinese junk into West Coast ports every year, but the backhaul of containerized resources is minimal and a very easy and cost effective thing to do.  The logical point of export is Prince Rupert as Vancouver is the wrong direction, very busy, unreliable and very expensive due to radical trade unions.  Dilbit (dilluted bitumen) may flow freely enough for pipelines, but it is an extremely costly way to move oil by pipeline as you need to ship diluent backwards along a second route - or make diluent at the other end of the line (harder to do with heavy oil) and something you really do NOT want to spill.   By knocking the light ends off of bituminous crudes, you end up with a very safe product that cools off to a solid and is very easily and safely shipped in a container or container tank.  This is patently obvious to anyone in the oil and logistics business.  It is also a big pipeline problem because one of the first things the Liberals did when they bought the pipeline to Vancouver is to kill of competition to the Westbound markets by prohibiting shipment from Prince Rupert, but no restrictions at all from Vancouver.

We don't make a bunch of upgraders to make syncrude (synthetic crude - that DOES belong in pipelines to the USA and should be legislated IMHO as the ONLY way to pipe out heavy crude capacity) and then refine it into product because, once again, we don't have the pipeline capacity to mover refined product out.  Large US markets are mostly coastal and East of Miss, so distance is a killer going East of AB and the mountains and existing CA production is a barrier to the West.

Edited December 28, 2020 by cannuck

[Moonlight Graham]

16 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

How's that working for Canada ?

How's that working for America?

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

How's that working for America?

 

Better than for Canada...the US (and other "allies") have banned Huawei...Canada is afraid to do so.

Edited December 28, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Better than for Canada...the US (and other "allies") have banned Huawei...Canada is afraid to do so.

It's called leverage.

[Argus]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Better than for Canada...the US (and other "allies") have banned Huawei...Canada is afraid to do so.

Are you bragging because Donald Trump's America is ever so slightly tougher on China than Justin Trudeau?

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It's called leverage.

 

Right....and Canada has very little...and is afraid to use what little it has.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Are you bragging because Donald Trump's America is ever so slightly tougher on China than Justin Trudeau?

 

No....anybody else has been "tougher" on China than Justin Trudeau.   Trudeau is your problem, but you spend more time on Trump.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

Are you bragging because Donald Trump's America is ever so slightly tougher on China than Justin Trudeau?

It takes a mentally retarded knuckle-dragging criminal traitor dictator-wannabe to get tough on China.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It takes a mentally retarded knuckle-dragging criminal traitor dictator-wannabe to get tough on China.

 

...and it takes a weak, virtue signaling sock puppet to keep rolling over on China.

How is that CanSino vaccine project going ?

[Moonlight Graham]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...and it takes a weak, virtue signaling sock puppet to keep rolling over on China.

Don't talk about your president-elect like that it's mean.

How many illiterate morons are in your country refusing to wear masks, how many governors and mayors and citizens not social distancing or putting in lockdowns because they can't add 2+2?  Chinese-American math prodigies making vaccines for Americans but American illiterates too afraid to get a vaccine because they listen to pornstar pseudo-scientist conspiracy theories and FOX News.

US cities are full of drug-addicted illiterates and 17-year old single moms and homeless tent-cities, and the US thinks they have a chance against China?  Shining city on a hill?  Their POTUS is more interested in tweeting than reading a book just like the rest of them.

Worst thing Canada did was listen to America and import its Coca-cola McDonald's Walmart Jerry Springer Twitter Facebook cultural backwash garbage that has done nothing but make the world fat and stupid like Americans.  At least we didn't import shooting each other in the face with assault rifles every day i guess.

As an arrogant American maybe look at your own mountain of problems before trying to pick fights with your friendly neighbours you can't finish brah.  Just like Trump and Bush you think u can go it alone...bahahha.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

As an arrogant American maybe look at your own mountain of problems before trying to pick fights with your friendly neighbours you can't finish brah.  Just like Trump and Bush you think u can go it alone...bahahha.

 

Well, we both know that Canada can never go it alone.   That's why America's choices matter so much to you, and always will.  

What to do about China ?    Hope that America does something about China, because Canada is too weak to do anything.   

Follow your own advice....

[Argus]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No....anybody else has been "tougher" on China than Justin Trudeau.   Trudeau is your problem, but you spend more time on Trump.

I didn't post this topic to talk about Trump. Why are you here?

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

I didn't post this topic to talk about Trump. Why are you here?

 

Then why did you mention Trump in this thread's first post ?

...and several other American things ?

That is the answer to your question.

 

 

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then why did you mention Trump in this thread's first post ?

...and several other American things ?

That is the answer to your question.

Uh, I said China had a bizarre sense of victimhood (hello Donald Trump). And twenty five pages later you're still here desperately angry because I attacked your god?