Are humans really responsible for climate change?

[OftenWrong]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Industry hasn't suffered from any public response to Climate Change.

Economics is not the only reason for the need to stay with fossil fuels.

[taxme]

8 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Yes, many of those people are unbearable hypocrites.

Here in Finland we have one female-politician, a socialist(surprise), who goes on constantly about how the climate-change is the biggest challenge of our lifetime and we must do everything to stop it. 

Once the same politician posted on her instagramm-account pictures of her holiday in the Mediterranean. 

People rightly asked her how did she get there. Did she row there or did she even swim all the way over there. 

The elite are all hypocrites. They want us peons to do as we are told and shut the hell up. 

Climate change is just another gimmick to get people all upset over sillyness while behind our backs the elite are still living it up and continuing to add to their so called global warming nonsense. It also helps keep we the sheeple away from wanting to tackle real problems in the world like poverty, hunger and wars. Global warming is nothing more than a farce and the elite know it. 

Yup, it sure looks like that communist does not practice what she preaches. She had to fly and not swim. LOL. Why is it that all these global warming elite liars tend to be always filthy rich? Why you say? Because they got rich off the fools who gave them their money for their lying cause. The sheeple will never learn that the globalists and their puppet on a string politicians are not really their friends. They they appear to be their real enemy. They lie to us all and get rich doing it. When will the sheeple ever get it? Some people's kids. Lol. 

 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, montgomery said:

shit-show? Is that an appropriate way to express yourself on this forum? I would suggest you produce your denialist experts so we believers can start to examine their credibility. I suspect you have none that aren't paid shills of the oil industry.

Unless of course you want to tout yourself as your own expert? Expressing yourself by calling the science 'shit-shows'  doesn't quite rise to the level of being all that convincing.

It is a well known fact that scientists can be bought off and paid to give false readings. It happens all the time. Were you just born on earth five days ago?  What proof do you have that the people that you listen to are telling the gawds honest truth? All you have to do is go on the internet where you will find plenty of websites that can explain to you quite well that all this global warming nonsense is just that? Nonsense. 

Hey, it is said by your scientists that the earth has warmed up by two degrees. So, in the Arctic today, instead of it being 32 below, it is now 30 below. Phew,  it is really starting to get hot up there. Anyone for a polar swim?   C'mon, wake up and smell the sweet scent of coffee in the morning. Cheesh. 

The whole world appears to be nothing but the production of "shit shows" every day and brought to us all by the international banker globalist elite who sit around and get richer and laugh at we the sheeple because they will listen too and believe all their lies and bull chit fed to the fools who will listen to them by our politicians and the corporate globalist lying media. Hello. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Economics is not the only reason for the need to stay with fossil fuels.

Seems besides the point but... What are other reasons ?

[montgomery]

2 hours ago, taxme said:

It is a well known fact that scientists can be bought off and paid to give false readings. It happens all the time. Were you just born on earth five days ago?  What proof do you have that the people that you listen to are telling the gawds honest truth? All you have to do is go on the internet where you will find plenty of websites that can explain to you quite well that all this global warming nonsense is just that? Nonsense. 

Hey, it is said by your scientists that the earth has warmed up by two degrees. So, in the Arctic today, instead of it being 32 below, it is now 30 below. Phew,  it is really starting to get hot up there. Anyone for a polar swim?   C'mon, wake up and smell the sweet scent of coffee in the morning. Cheesh. 

The whole world appears to be nothing but the production of "shit shows" every day and brought to us all by the international banker globalist elite who sit around and get richer and laugh at we the sheeple because they will listen too and believe all their lies and bull chit fed to the fools who will listen to them by our politicians and the corporate globalist lying media. Hello. 

Amazing that you would be so uninformed that you would even thing that the arctic would be two degrees warmer because the earth is two degrees warmer! If you have no experts to take your denialist side then enlighten us more with your own personal science!  Your 'shit shows' you're screeching on about surely must be good evidence of you being right! Let alone even caring! 

Can you produce a paid by big oil shill to give us something a little more substantial?

One thing we can believe reliably is that you must be a Conservative!

Edited January 5, 2019 by montgomery

[montgomery]

Just now, montgomery said:

Amazing that you would be so uninformed that you would even thing that the arctic would be two degrees warmer because the earth is two degrees warmer! If you have no experts to take your denialist side then enlighten us more with your own personal science!  Your 'shit shows' you're screeching on about surely must be good evidence of you being right! Let alone even caring! 

Can you produce a paid by big oil shill to give us something a little more substantial?

 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Oh, bollocks.  I am talking about utter falsehoods.  

When you abandon pure science and use hyperbole it introduces huge elements of doubt about your truthfulness and motivations. Scientists have been caught doing this too often, which I think, is partly responsible for how politicized this issue has become.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Seems besides the point but... What are other reasons ?

Lack of reliable alternatives.

[bush_cheney2004]

The credibility of change alarmist scientists was so damaged from there falsehoods and hyperbole, even laypeople started to demand that all analysis and claims be provided with the entire supporting data domain(s).   No more fun and games with "outliers", proxy shell games, interpolation, etc.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.   In God We Trust...all others bring (unadulterated) data please.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

When you abandon pure science and use hyperbole it introduces huge elements of doubt about your truthfulness and motivations. Scientists have been caught doing this too often, which I think, is partly responsible for how politicized this issue has become.

Where is the line then ?  If somebody says we COULD be in trouble in the next X years that could be hyperbole.  And you're saying that's the line that was crossed ?  Not what came after, such as "we are entering an ICE AGE"

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Lack of reliable alternatives.

Isn't that economics too ?   Economics is about dealing with scarcity.  And anyway .... here you are again stepping up and trying to help another conservative explain themselves.  Only this time you're interpreting what THEY meant - which is what I'm asking.    

[WestCanMan]

I think that what we are doing to the ocean is worse than what carbon is doing to the atmosphere. 

We’re dumping billions of gallons of raw sewage, tons of plastics and garbage, pcbs, radioactive waste from fukijima, mercury, ddt, killing off shark and whale populations, nets dragging the bottom of the ocean floor scraping away plant life, etc, etc. 

The ocean is treated like a gigantic garbage dump and an endless, inexhaustible source of food. It’s neither.

Overpopulation is the planet’s main problem. 

People keep focusing on what we need to do to keep on having tons of babies and make them all happy. That doesn’t have a happy ending. 

[Dougie93]

Fallacious Malthusian Theorem  population control to save the world  is the stuff genocides are made of,  the kissing cousin of National Socialist Lebensraum.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Fallacious Malthusian Theorem  population control to save the world  is the stuff genocides are made of,  the kissing cousin of National Socialist Lebensraum.

So then agree to prosecuting liars and propagandists, or educate the planet.  I think the former is easier.

[OftenWrong]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Seems besides the point but... What are other reasons ?

In fact, with this response the point has been made.

Reasons themselves relate to competition among nations in the development and use of clean energy, but are off topic in this thread.

Quote

1. To be fair, hardly any are insisting that climate isn't changing, or even that humans are causing it.

2. They won, though, just by delaying a response and controls on fossil fuels.

1. Well done.

2. Disagree The reason it needs to be done is that Chinese are building reactors 1-2-3 while we (the west) are not. We are falling behind in the energy race. Wind and solar are unable to provide the level of reliable power necessary to meet future needs. The technology is just not there yet. Nuclear is the only viable source of steady, high power that meets the low carbon target. We thus face an energy deficit that cannot be filled other than by using fossil fuel. Yes, politics exacerbates the problem of global warming. Humans cause it.

[OftenWrong]

On 1/4/2019 at 4:17 AM, eyeball said:

In the meantime...

I've also long predicted it was only a matter of time before right-wingers began making global warming something that was due to the left. I look forward to seeing this fleshed out too.

Why are almost no nuclear reactors being built in the west? Why did Germany prematurely, and regrettably, shut down their nuclear power sources?

What kind of energy do they buy now, to replace that loss? 

Who are these people.

[Argus]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Isn't that economics too ? 

Almost everything boils down to economics in the end.

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Economics is about dealing with scarcity. 

Economics is about a lot of things, including the impacts of rising and falling prices on consumer behaviour. But in this case, the question remains: what do we replace fossil fuels with that will produce a reliable, continuous stream of energy?

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And anyway .... here you are again stepping up and trying to help another conservative explain themselves.  Only this time you're interpreting what THEY meant - which is what I'm asking.    

I'm not sure how you can have been around this site as long as you have without grasping that there are no two-way discussions. Everyone is free to respond to every post that interests them.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm not sure how you can have been around this site as long as you have without grasping that there are no two-way discussions. Everyone is free to respond to every post that interests them.

Sure.  And you are free to gather up faltering and shitty right-wing garbage posts about climate and patch them together into something with some logic.  The question is why ?

Did you ever see me running around supporting Waldo or others because they were on my 'team' ?  If you want to see good discussions on climate then let the shitty posts die on the vine.  Or better yet - GASP - criticize bad posts from conservatives as I do from liberals.  Imagine that.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

So then agree to prosecuting liars and propagandists, or educate the planet.  I think the former is easier.

Nah, I embrace the American first amendment definition of free speech, the crazy Canadian impulse to censor Chinese Communist style is just another reason this country needs to be ended.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure.  And you are free to gather up faltering and shitty right-wing garbage posts about climate and patch them together into something with some logic.  The question is why ?

Now you're sounding like the conspiracy types.

You asked 'what are the reasons' for staying with fossil fuels. I made a one-line post to answer you. Don't look beyond that as me earnestly seeking to come to the aid of my 'team'. You are usually on the opposite side of issues from me so I answer you when I think I have a clear point to assert.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Did you ever see me running around supporting Waldo or others because they were on my 'team' ?  If you want to see good discussions on climate then let the shitty posts die on the vine.  Or better yet - GASP - criticize bad posts from conservatives as I do from liberals.  Imagine that.

I haven't seen you criticize 'bad' posts from liberals, and I largely have the 'bad' conservatives on my ignore list.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

So then agree to prosecuting liars and propagandists, or educate the planet.  I think the former is easier.

How do we run the planet with all the politicians in prison?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Fallacious Malthusian Theorem  population control to save the world  is the stuff genocides are made of,  the kissing cousin of National Socialist Lebensraum.

Too many people and too few resources.  You can call it Malthusian or you can call it common sense, it doesn't make any difference.

The world is going to be just fine.  Once the people are gone a couple of million years should see it right again. 

[Dougie93]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Too many people and too few resources.  You can call it Malthusian or you can call it common sense, it doesn't make any difference.

The world is going to be just fine.  Once the people are gone a couple of million years should see it right again. 

"Common sense" is the ultimate fallacy,  and, as I say,  "once people are gone" is the stuff genocides are made of.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

So then agree to prosecuting liars and propagandists, or educate the planet.  I think the former is easier.

How much more educating do you think the planet needs?  It knows.  It doesn't need any more education.

It doesn't want to do anything about it anyway!

[Guest]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

"Common sense" is the ultimate fallacy,  and, as I say,  "once people are gone" is the stuff genocides are made of.

I don't know about fallacious, but it's certainly a lot rarer than I thought.  As for the genocide bollocks, if you like, sure.