Bernier criticizes Trudeau's "extreme multiculturalism"

[Boges]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

Yes, we still go to the Asian Section to shop, there's a positive atmosphere in them.  Some communities like the Italian section ....and Danforth - we travelled all the way just to eat authentic Greek! 

 

We have to choose our immigrants, that's the key.  If it's discriminatory to want to let in those who will readily be comfortable with Canadian way of life -

so be it.  

There's no shame in being choosy, and wanting only the best we can have for all residents in this country.

My favourite food is Lebanese/Persian/Mediterranean. I'm all for more people to make Shawarma. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

See below to see what point I was getting at.

 

Too late.....you can't pick and choose the waycist narrative(s) without being cross border cross checked.

[betsy]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

My favourite food is Lebanese/Persian/Mediterranean. I'm all for more people to make Shawarma. 

 Thorough vetting, is imperative .......especially for those coming from "hot spots."    

 

There should be a cap as to how many from various countries are allowed each year. 

There should be a healthy balance from different parts of the world.   Immigrants from  cultures that are the same as ours should comprise vastly more, in comparison with those that aren't.   It's only practical.

 

Just as some parts of Europe had waken up, it should be one of our stipulations for those applying to come here - burquas (or anything that covers the face), will not be allowed.....after all, we surely do not want to perpetuate this degrading practice on women - with some of these women being apathetic, and even all for it  (which will surely be passed down to their daughters).  

Edited August 17, 2018 by betsy

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Too late.....you can't pick and choose the waycist narrative(s) without being cross border cross checked.

Just because you can't recognize the hypocrisy in the GOP, it's not my fault. Thread Drift however. I'll post video in direct reference to the other thread. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Just because you can't recognize the hypocrisy the GOP, it's not my fault. Thread Drift however. I'll post video in direct reference to the other thread. 

 

Much better answer...have fun !

[turningrite]

34 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Bernier is stating what a lot of Canadians think, but are afraid to say out loud.   

Margaret Wente addresses the political suppression of dissent relating to immigration and multiculturalism in her column in today's Globe and Mail. She states: [Bernier's] views are also popular because mainstream politicians have been reluctant to allow an outlet for legitimate concerns over immigration and refugee policy. "There is no core identity", no mainstream in Canada,” Mr. Trudeau has said. A lot of Canadians disagree."

In fact, those who disagree are cast as xenophobes and bigots not just by Trudeau but by the closed political cartel that defines the parameters for policy discussion in Ottawa. The CPC leader, Scheer, has responded to Bernier's critique by noting that he opposes identity politics but believes in both diversity and unity at the same time. Really? I guess that's how one might emphatically take no stand at all, which hardly seems a credit to his leadership capabilities. As Wente notes in her piece: "Diversity is not our strength. Unity is our strength. What makes Canada strong is our ability to unite people of diverse backgrounds with a shared set of goals and values."

Wente believes Bernier's latest foray into controversy is likely intended to demonstrate to CPC members that they made the wrong choice in not choosing him as party leader, which may in fact be the case, but it has ignited a debate that's long overdue in this country - but also a debate our mainstream parties don't want us to have.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-whos-playing-identity-politics-everyone/

[-TSS-]

I feel extreme sense of unfairness. There have been reports here in Finland how we should prepare to take up to 1m, yes million, asylum-seekers and how that would affect our infrastructure.

WTF are we talking about here? Since when was Finland a major world-power which must take its full responsibility about the world? I mean, don't get me wrong, the Brits, the French, the former colonial masters all across the world but we the Finns??

As for the Britis and the French who have a history of expanding their nationalism way over their own borders there is a high time that they get a taste of their own medicine. There is nothing so bad that those counties wouldn't deserve.

[turningrite]

42 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I feel extreme sense of unfairness. There have been reports here in Finland how we should prepare to take up to 1m, yes million, asylum-seekers and how that would affect our infrastructure.

 

I don't know a lot about Finland but all I can say is to be very careful. And don't listen to propaganda from self-serving politicians and advocates. Our infrastructure, both physical and social, has been stretched to the limits in places like Toronto. Our hospitals are bursting at the seams, where as an "admitted" patient you can lie on a stretcher for days as I have done, sharing a single filthy bathroom with dozens of other patients and their visitors, while waiting for an actual bed to become available. Our transit system, in an urban region of 6 million, is unreliable and overcrowded and has scarcely expanded over the past 20 years while the population has increased by about 50 percent. Our roads are equally clogged, with Toronto's commuting times now ranked as the worst in North America. Our housing prices and rents have exploded in comparison to rather stagnant incomes, with housing insecurity rising alarmingly, burgeoning homelessness and an emergency shelter system that can't accommodate demand. And there is no social housing available even to those most objectively in need, including the seriously disabled and seniors. And those are just the things that immediately come to mind. As I said, don't listen to the rosy promises of do-gooder politicians and advocates. You won't get a do-over when the inevitable problems emerge. We're the proverbial canaries in the coal mine.

Edited August 17, 2018 by turningrite

[bush_cheney2004]

38 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I feel extreme sense of unfairness. There have been reports here in Finland how we should prepare to take up to 1m, yes million, asylum-seekers and how that would affect our infrastructure.

 

That's not Finland talking...that is the EU barking orders at Finland.  

[Centerpiece]

Don't dismiss the fact that this may be a somewhat planned good guy/bad guy act between Scheer and Bernier. It's a good way to raise a concern that many Canadians agree with and others who might be enlightened by the debate - in spite of the one-sided as the CBC and The Star make it. It plays well in Quebec where the Tories are trying to make inroads - and other than the whining from the usual suspects, I don't see much of a down side - including the CBC-led "leadership" issue. When the dust settles, Scheer will have stuck to his narrative of focusing on what unites us as opposed to the differences that divide us. I suspect there is a growing silent majority(?) that is very unsettled with the Liberals' Orwellian open-borders policy.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, marcus said:

Kudos to M. Bernier for speaking from his heart about his discomfort with Canadians who are different from himself.

When did he do this? Perhaps you have a quote you can cite? Or are you just resorting to your usual smear tactics?

[-TSS-]

I am personally preparing my own white flight as I live in the capital-region but I am looking at the price of property and availability of jobs deeper in Finland.

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Nope.  It is: divisive media and politicians who exploit anxiety over disappearing identity and reduced economic power.  Trump is exploiting Mexican immigration in the same way William Jennings Bryan exploited false anxiety over the gold standard.

You must have an even worse view of humanity than I do.
You think everyone was moving along in their happy-happy lives, up until Donald Trump started talking about how he was gonna build a wall. SUDDENLY, all those people started milling about like the sheep they are and going "Bahh! Bahh! Build it! Protect us!" Boy, he must have incredible charisma!

Only the thing is, people's anxiety about immigration doesn't come from Donald Trump. It was there already, and has been for decades, and growing. Poll after poll showed that Americans were upset about the number of illegals and that the government wasn't doing anything about it. Trump simply exploited the already existing anger, both on illegal immigration, and on the immigration of people Americans have come to be extremely wary of - Muslims. You probably simply never knew such anger and upset existed since the mainstream press rarely ever bothered to mention it.

Just as they never do in Canada.

Or have you convinced yourself that Kellie Lietch, with her incredible charisma and demagogic ability to rally people, suddenly managed to infect Canadians with a belief that our potential immigrants ought to be subjected to a values test? I mean, barely had she started to talk about it when the Toronto Star and CBC surveyed Canadians and found more than 70% thought that was a damn fine idea! Clearly they'd never think of that on their own! Just like they'd never have any discomfort with burkas and niquabs such that three quarters would side with the Tory government about banning them from citizenship ceremonies.

Must be all from Lietch! After all, you never heard anyone ever expressing such thoughts in our media! Not ever!

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. They don't say that.

It's close enough. They're the immigration party. 

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3.  Yes, you flew off the handle with irrationality and didn't answer my question.  Try again.

I answered your question, but your irrationality caused you to stick your fingers in your ears and go "Nanananananana! Diversity is our strength!"

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Boges said:

It's racist. Plain and simple. There shouldn't be an imperative to adopt Canadian cultural practices to be here. The only imperative is that your own cultural practices shouldn't be illegal or discriminatory. This is where Islam's treatment of women becomes a sticking point for most. 

It's racist? Against which race? Which race did he mention again? I'd like to know.
Tell me, do you, like Trudeau, believe Canada is not a nation and has no core identity, and that this is good?

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

We have been hearing this for 40 years and it comes to squat.

@Argus there's the prediction I was referring to earlier, from PIK above.  Chicken Little stuff, no wonder people don't listen.

I already dealt with this and you had no response. We'll consider the matter settled and that you admit you were incorrect.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

No it was great because it opened itself up to different cultures and didn't aim to be some WASP utopia. 

And what's wrong with a WASP utopia? (btw, stupid name in that half the population are Catholics)

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

I'm just pointing out that Canada's 150 plus year heritage isn't really a huge selling point.

As compared to what other country?

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

It's the idea of multiculturalism that bugs him.

Do you have any response to the Prime Minister of the UK, the Chancellor of Germany and the Prime Minister of France all admitting that multiculturalism has been a massive failure, and that their encouragement of immigrants to retain their old cultures has led to disunity and violence?

Oh, wait. They're all racists. 

4 hours ago, Boges said:

 It's immigration period that bugs people. And that's racism.

Get a dictionary. Look up 'racism'. Come back to use when you know what the word means.

 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Canada, and the US for that matter, has done a poor job increasing it's population from people that already exist here. Immigration grows the economy. 

So if we continue, hopefully we'll have a big economy like Nigeria or Bangladesh, right? That's your ambition?

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

But perhaps we are being taken over by brown people, because as "white" Canadians enter into families with people from other cultures, that does gradually brown the country. It's gonna happen.

No, it's actually not. Despite your unicorn and rainbows view of the world, most people much prefer to date and procreate with people of their own colour, religion, ethnicity and culture. That goes for all races, btw. And it's been shown in numerous studies.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

Margaret Wente addresses the political suppression of dissent relating to immigration and multiculturalism in her column in today's Globe and Mail. She states: [Bernier's] views are also popular because mainstream politicians have been reluctant to allow an outlet for legitimate concerns over immigration and refugee policy. "There is no core identity", no mainstream in Canada,” Mr. Trudeau has said. A lot of Canadians disagree."

In fact, those who disagree are cast as xenophobes and bigots not just by Trudeau but by the closed political cartel that defines the parameters for policy discussion in Ottawa. 

That's exactly why no politician has the courage to do anything but paste a false smile and parrot the conventional support of multiculturalism, diversity and mass immigration. The instant anyone expresses even a quibble about it the mindless idiots start jumping up and down and shrieking "Racism! Racism!" with about as much thought in their heads as "Burn the witch! Burn her!" Most Canadians, including most immigrants wouldn't find much to object to in Bernier's tweets. But the cult of immigration which owns the national discussion won't allow any questioning of their conventional wisdom.

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. You think everyone was moving along in their happy-happy lives, up until ...

2. Only the thing is, people's anxiety about immigration doesn't come from Donald Trump. It was there already, and has been for decades, and growing.  

3. I answered your question, but your irrationality caused you to stick your fingers in your ears and go "Nanananananana! Diversity is our strength!"

1.   No...

2.  Anxiety can be cultivated and it is.  Immigration is just one way to do it.  I don't care if it existed or not.  I consider it exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

3.  How exactly did I do that ?   I answered your question but you seem to really hate my answer.  

People were scared of lots of things when I was growing up.  Sharks.  Global cooling...

[dialamah]

Alternatively, most Canadians support immigration so politicians aren't scared of being called racist, they're scared of losing votes.  When a survey comes along showing that most Canadians do not support immigration, politicians will immediately change their stance.

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, Argus said:

I already dealt with this and you had no response. We'll consider the matter settled and that you admit you were incorrect.

I don't think so.  You said that the matter was never framed as turning to a disaster, ie. nobody was saying we'd be in a disaster because of multiculturalism.  I have heard it, and hear it is again.  What was that you accused me of ?  Sticking my fingers in my ears ? 

Here's the answer: "PIK's irrational statement doesn't represent the mainstream of... uh...." [ multiculturalism policy criticism, or ... I don't know insert some term here.]

[Argus]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

  I don't care if it existed or not.  I consider it exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

So because you have no such concerns, other people's concerns are irrelevant and unreasonable.

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3.  How exactly did I do that ?   I answered your question but you seem to really hate my answer.  

No, you in fact, deleted my answer without responding and then said 'try again'. Here is my answer again. Try responding to it this time.

How blind are you? France? Britain? Spain? Canada? All have separatist groups and all have faced or are facing the threat of separation because of that. Remember that country that used be called Czechoslovakia? It doesn't exist. Ukraine? That was all about ethnic Russians on one side. Same thing for Georgia. Sudan, with Arabs to the north and Black Africans to the south. Rwanda sound familiar?  Nigeria and Kenya? Muslims against Christians. Yemen? Shiites against Suunis. There are more examples than you can shake a stick at. But there are very, very, very few of diverse nations surviving and thriving without fighting very hard against the disunity caused by their diversity.