The second amendment is failing the USA : Another school shooting!

[bush_cheney2004]

11 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

yes, and the millions of others like them that farmed, engineered, built, operated, and maintained all that makes America and not the hillbilly second amendment guns that accomplished nothing.

 

Nonsense...the history of firearms in the United States is well documented...the Civil War was not fought with pitchforks.

[Scott Mayers]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Regardless of the 2nd Amendment, Americans used firearms to establish and expand a nation across an entire continent.   Guns are not justified by the 2nd Amendment....the 2nd Amendment exists because of guns.   The manufacture and possession of firearms didn't lose prominence just because Britain was expelled and loyalists fled to Canada.

Guns are part of American "culture", and have been from the very beginning.  Don't Canadians fall all over themselves to elevate and worship at the alter of "culture" ?

 

I certainly don't (on the 'culture' question). 

But do you then not agree that all other countries SHOULD act to build their own arsenals to empower themselves too being that weapons are what make you virtuous? That is, are you then a fan of 'terrorists' if only to give you the justification to practice your 'culture' of using guns?

Certainly if each individual has the virtuous 'right' to hold a firearm WITHIN your country, it equally holds with whole countries that act as independent beings desiring to hold the same 'virtue'. Iran and North Korea and the Taliban, etcetera SHOULD be rightfully arming themselves with the wishes of America as a whole. Or does the hypocrisy end at America's borders uniquely?

Edited February 16, 2018 by Scott Mayers

[?Impact]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

the Civil War was not fought with pitchforks.

After the civil war were militias not banned in the former Confederate states because the traitors tried to destroy the country. It is true however that freed slaves were granted the right to bear arms as well, so they could protect themselves from their former slave owners.

An interesting side note is that came to a head in California in the 60's, and the Republican Ronald Reagan was the one to introduce gun control in the state.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

I certainly don't (on the 'culture' question). 

But do you then not agree that all other countries SHOULD act to build their own arsenals to empower themselves too being that weapons are what make you virtuous? That is, are you then a fan of 'terrorists' if only to give you the justification to practice your 'culture' of using guns?

 

Yes, but it has nothing to do with virtue and everything to do with power.   America's enemies should arm themselves as best they can, because we like to make lots of guns and other much more high-tech things that go BOOM !   America's manufacturing capacity for war materials was very important to Britain's/Canada's empire in the last century.

[Scott Mayers]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes, but it has nothing to do with virtue and everything to do with power.   America's enemies should arm themselves as best they can, because we like to make lots of guns and other much more high-tech things that go BOOM !   America's manufacturing capacity for war materials was very important to Britain's/Canada's empire in the last century.

Then you admit that 'power' is NOT 'virtuous'?

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

Then you admit that 'power' is NOT 'virtuous'?

 

Who would ever make such a claim ?  I never have.

Economics trumps Virtue.

[Scott Mayers]

 

12 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

Then you admit that 'power' is NOT 'virtuous'?

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Who would ever make such a claim ?  I never have.

Economics trumps Virtue.

 

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Yes, but [America's success] has nothing to do with virtue and everything to do with power. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Scott Mayers
Clarify the 'it' for context.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Scott Mayers said:

I have an interesting suggestion for the U.S. to fix this issue. 

The main reason it is hard to remove is because they cannot get all the States to sign a new Amendment to overthrow it, right? BUT, one can argue that IF the 'interpretations' of those States signing one way or the other disagree to the meaning of it with CONTRADICTORY interpretations, this should be justified to overthrow that law for lacking meaning without a need for further signatures. It at least should force them to rewrite it.

 

Nope, that's not how it works in the United States...it is not some half-assed attempt like Meech Lake / Charlottetown accords between squabbling provinces.

The 2nd Amendment is part of the U.S. Constitution, the highest law of the land.  The process for changing it is also defined in the Constitution.

Conflicts are resolved with cases that have standing before the U.S. Supreme Court, which has ruled on multiple occasions that Americans have the right to own and bear firearms.

Edited February 16, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[betsy]

The 2nd ammendment has always been there.  It's never been as bad as now.

Something's terribly wrong with our society when we now see kids thinking nothing of killing.  It's not the second ammendment!

  Perhaps it's the way we raise children now.....or maybe, it's because there's a huge lack of parental supervision.......or values have not been instilled during the early years of childhood.......or maybe, it's the violence they see on tv, or games, or any media!  A lot of changes had happened within the last 50 years - it couldn't be the 2nd ammendment!

[Topaz]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It seems that after every shooting, a whole host of wacky conspiracies come up.  I don't know for sure that this is what this is, but it sure sounds like it.  God help you if you ever lost a loved one in this way, and then had to endure years of abuse from these crackpot conspiracy idiots.  The Sandy Hook parents have had people hounding them for years.  Just imagine that.  The one thing you are able to do after losing a child is eventually forget about it, but these people would never let you - hounding you with accusations that your child never LIVED.

I don't know what it is in some people to believe this stuff, but I hope that one by one they wake up and just realize how misled they are.

That's  a good question...who is really being misled? Why is there all of sudden r schools being targeted? After 9/11 and all the unanswered questions and the whistler blowers that have came out, one SHOULD ask questions. The teen said she heard shots while she was talking to the  so called shooter, and she believe there was more than one shooter, so u think she was lying and why would she?

[?Impact]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nope, that's not how it works in the United States...it is not some half-assed attempt like Meech Lake / Charlottetown accords between squabbling provinces.

The 2nd Amendment is part of the U.S. Constitution, the highest law of the land.  The process for changing it is also defined in the Constitution.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at with your comparison to Canada. Do you mean half-assed attempts like the The Washington DC Voting Rights Amendment that happened around the same time as Meech Lake, and the many other* failed attempts to amend the US Constitution that have failed?

*one of those failed amendments is the Child Labor Amendment with 38 holdout states. I probably have a good guess as to which states those were who prefer to have child labor and sweep it under the rug.

Edited February 16, 2018 by ?Impact

[?Impact]

Each one of the following deserves your attention far more than the POS who committed the acts. Read each of their names and ages, google them and find out their stories, they are the ones we need to reflect on and the ones who we failed. The time to act on gun control is now.

• Alyssa Alhadeff, aged 14
• Scott Beigel, aged 35
• Martin Duque, aged 14
• Nicholas Dworet, aged 17
• Aaron Feis, aged 37
• Jaime Guttenberg, aged 14
• Chris Hixon, aged 49
• Luke Hoyer, aged 15
• Cara Loughran, aged 14
• Gina Montalto, aged 14
• Joaquin Oliver, aged 17
• Alaina Petty, aged 14
• Meadow Pollack, aged 18
• Helena Ramsay, aged 17
• Alex Schachter, aged 14
• Carmen Schentrup, aged 16
• Peter Wang, aged 15

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Topaz said:

The teen said she heard shots while she was talking to the  so called shooter, and she believe there was more than one shooter, so u think she was lying and why would she?

Why would she lie ?  No, she was mistaken.  Mistakes happen.  It would be inconceivable that a 2nd shooter has not been identified so far.

[Kerfuffle]

Trump has often pointed to mental illness as the underlying cause for mass shootings, but one of his earliest actions as president was to undo a regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with a known mental illness to buy guns.

 

 

[?Impact]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why would she lie ?  No, she was mistaken.  Mistakes happen.  It would be inconceivable that a 2nd shooter has not been identified so far.

Why is that inconceivable, the shooter on the grassy knoll still remains a mystery.

[?Impact]

Just now, Kerfuffle said:

Trump has often pointed to mental illness as the underlying cause for mass shootings, but one of his earliest actions as president was to undo a regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with a known mental illness to buy guns.

This POS bought his gun legally from a shop in Florida about a year ago, not sure if was before or after that action (not that it would matter).

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Why is that inconceivable, the shooter on the grassy knoll still remains a mystery.

Which is more horse shit that thankfuly is dying out.  With the number of people who have media access and internet access it's actually close to impossible that there's another shooter at large.

[Kerfuffle]

28 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

This POS bought his gun legally from a shop in Florida about a year ago, not sure if was before or after that action (not that it would matter).

Trump has often pointed to mental illness as the underlying cause for mass shootings, but one of his earliest actions as president was to undo a regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with a known mental illness to buy guns.

Republicans are in the NRA pocket.....wont pass bills to reduce crime ....but will roll back bills to allow mentally ill to purchase guns.

                                                                                                                       NRA CONTRIBUTIONS

                                                                             $5,900,000

given to Republicans in 2016 election cycle

$106,000

given to Democrats in 2016 election cycle

                             

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Kerfuffle

[?Impact]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Which is more horse shit that thankfuly is dying out.

What makes you say that, I think the horse shit is only getting deeper and deeper every year. The more access people have, the more the horse shit seems to grow. I suspect the second shooter theory will take off in the next couple of days as people latch onto what this girl said.

 

I saw a great youtube video the other day about the faked falcon heavy launch. The guy doing it was excellet, going over the footage and describing how things were faked right up to the color of smoke. b.t.w. Ignore the fact that he put "parody" in the title, that doesn't mean anything, I am sure we will see others come out with similar theories without that disclaimer.

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Trump has often pointed to mental illness as the underlying cause for mass shootings, but one of his earliest actions as president was to undo a regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with a known mental illness to buy guns.

The only link between mental illness and mass shootings is easy access to guns.  Take that access away and the incidence of these mass shootings would resemble that of just about any other modern western democracy.

 

Quote

Republicans are in the NRA pocket.....wont pass bills to reduce crime ....but will roll back bills to allow mentally ill to purchase guns.

That means the Republicans are also under the spell of the insanity that has gripped the NRA.  The NRA actually mirrors the mass shooters in a lot of ways...a little 'off', aggressive, shunned and isolated, emasculated and powerless to do anything about losing things like the Civil War or slowing the advance of progress, they retreat instead into their glorification and fantasies of gun-violence.

Talk about a red flag.

One thing I heard that makes a lot of sense is how a gun in your hands changes your attitude about how tolerant you need to be.      

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by eyeball

[Kerfuffle]

All card carrying NRA members are enablers of these shootings as they help fund the contributions to Republicans to vote in favour of hands off gun control.

Assault rifles are not protected under the 2nd amendment so they should be easy to ban. The Americans willing to fight the NRA should raise funds to out bid contributions  given by NRA.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Kerfuffle

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

This POS bought his gun legally from a shop in Florida about a year ago, not sure if was before or after that action (not that it would matter).

Its easy to lose sight of the fact this 'POS' is also a human being suffering a mental illness isn't it?  He needs treatment, not more of the isolation and shunning that exacerbated his illness.

[Kerfuffle]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Its easy to lose sight of the fact this 'POS' is also a human being suffering a mental illness isn't it?  He needs treatment, not more of the isolation and shunning that exacerbated his illness.

Agreed...but it is so much cheaper to keep them on the streets than investing in mental health

[?Impact]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Its easy to lose sight of the fact this 'POS' is also a human being suffering a mental illness isn't it?  He needs treatment, not more of the isolation and shunning that exacerbated his illness.

Sorry, I forgot. He isn't Muslim or native so he is a human being.

Where were you the 39 times the police showed up at his door in the past 5-6 years, or when the FBI got his name from a post saying he would be the next school shooter, or the numerous times he got in trouble at school including being expelled?

[bush_cheney2004]

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The only link between mental illness and mass shootings is easy access to guns.  Take that access away and the incidence of these mass shootings would resemble that of just about any other modern western democracy.

 

Not necessarily a good thing...mass shootings per capita in some other nations is nothing to brag about.  

President Obama thought he had it all figured out too, but he was wrong:

Quote

In sum, then, Obama is wrong to say that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries." Clearly it does happen elsewhere, and not in trivial numbers. Seven of the countries saw double-digit numbers of people killed in mass shootings during that period.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

 

Quote

That means the Republicans are also under the spell of the insanity that has gripped the NRA.  The NRA actually mirrors the mass shooters in a lot of ways...

 

20% of NRA members are Democrats, and 40% of U.S. gun owners are Democrats.

Guns are very, very American, regardless of the NRA.