Does immigration reduce crime rates in Canada ?

[Altai]

I read that Canada accepts average number of 250.000 immigrants per year. I also see there are many older immigrants who claims of being owner of Canada trying to blame new immigrants of being the cause for criminal actions.

Below I share two graphics. One shows the immigration numbers based on years while other one shows crime numbers based on years. As you can see there is an inverse ratio. Immigrant population incresing from year to year and crime rates are decreasing from year to year. 

If the immigration was one of the main reason of criminal actions as its claimed,  crime rates by year should have been increased in direct proportion.

The claim fails.

[Boges]

Causation vs Correlation. 

Can't really prove immigration reduces prime, just as you couldn't prove that it causes crime should the rate increase. 

An increase in the quality of life is the best indicator of a low crime rate, I'd reckon. 

[Moonlight Graham]

I'd theorize it increases crime.  These are mostly people coming from developing countries with dubious rule of law & corruption is the norm & you often have to do anything to get ahead in order to survive & be safe.  Bringing in Somali refugees or people from Nigeria, Jamaica, Haiti, El Salvador, Afghanistan or any of the other worst/poorest countries on the planet is going to logically increase crime I'd wager.  I have no stats though so who knows.  They certainly aren't all criminals though. 

Altai's stats don't prove any correlation.

[Goddess]

There are a lot of different reasons why crime rates fall:  focus on prevention, getting rid of repressive policies that interfere with youth education and skills, introduction of targeted programmes, gun control, targeting the inequality that leads to crimes and violence, initiatives to target organized crime, initiatives that tackle drug abuse......

All of these things taken together and worked on together will reduce crime in any given country. 

To say bringing in lots of immigrants is how to solve crime is so overly simplistic it's idiotic.

[Goddess]

WHO lists 9 things governments can implement to reduce crime:

1. Quote

    

   1. Create, implement and monitor a national action plan for violence prevention.
   2. Enhance capacity for collecting data on violence.
   3. Define priorities for, and support research on, the causes, consequences, costs and prevention of violence.
   4. Promote primary prevention responses.
   5. Strengthen responses for victims of violence.
   6. Integrate violence prevention into social and educational policies, and thereby promote gender and social equality.
   7. Increase collaboration and exchange of information on violence prevention.
   8. Promote and monitor adherence to international treaties, laws and other mechanisms to protect human rights.
   9. Seek practical, internationally agreed responses to the global drugs and global arms trade.

    

   "Bringing in more immigrants" doesn't even make the list.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Goddess

[CITIZEN_2015]

Reduced crime rate has to do more with improved prosperity and lower unemployment. At least In Ottawa immigrants from certain African/Middle Eastern countries appear to be responsible for a lot of shootings recently. Syrian refugees have committed lots of sexual assaults in Germany. And have you not heard about Italian and Russian mafia and Eastern European gangs and South American drug lords in the West? I go by evidence and related statistics rather than theory. Conclusion is SELECTIVITY of immigrants and refugees.

Edited October 6, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'd theorize it increases crime.

What does a quick glance at this suggest?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/wanted

or this?

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawas-most-wanted-have-you-seen-these-men

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What does a quick glance at this suggest?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/wanted

or this?

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawas-most-wanted-have-you-seen-these-men

That most but not all criminals are non-Caucasians (not necessarily immigrants but yes likely most are) though there are Caucasians among them. That said I personaly do not consider parental abduction (when committed by a mother) as a crime as per first link. Also it does NOT mean every non-Caucasian is a potential criminal. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015

[betsy]

The crime rate of migrants in Germany had increased.

Quote

Migrant crime in Germany rises by 50 per cent, new figures show

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/migrant-crime-germany-rises-50-per-cent-new-figures-show/

 

 

[Altai]

On 05.10.2017 at 11:24 PM, Boges said:

Causation vs Correlation. 

Can't really prove immigration reduces prime, just as you couldn't prove that it causes crime should the rate increase. 

An increase in the quality of life is the best indicator of a low crime rate, I'd reckon. 

Yes, my claim fails because I considered that even if these 250.000 new coming guys had zero crime rate, its impossible to drop crime rate this much when its proportioned to total population of Canada.

[taxme]

On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎07 at 4:26 AM, betsy said:

The crime rate of migrants in Germany had increased.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/migrant-crime-germany-rises-50-per-cent-new-figures-show/

 

 

Well either the German people are asleep or just don't care about this rise in crime in Germany by migrants because the German people just gave Merkle another shot at the job of running the country for another number of years. There is no need to worry about what goes on in Germany anymore because it is quite obvious that the German people don't give a dam also.

I guess that with Markel now in command again there will be more migrants immigrating to Germany bringing with them more problems and the Germans will be getting a lot more of what they are asking for. More chaos and crime. They will deserve all they can get now.

[dialamah]

There've been several studies demonstrating that when new immigrants move into an area, the crime rate in that area goes down.   These studies also notes that the second generation of immigrants trend closer to the non-immigrant rate of crime, but does not surpass it.  In other words, they commit crime at about the same rate as non-immigrants - this is part of becoming culturally integrated, I suppose.    

https://tinyurl.com/immlcrime

https://www.cifar.ca/assets/arrival-of-the-fittest-canadas-crime-rate-is-dropping-as-immigration-increases-is-there-a-connection/

Corrections Canada study of their inmate population.  Visible minority offender less likely to be involved in violent crime and less likely to reoffend than Caucasian offenders.  http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/research/r144-eng.shtml

A study out of Alberta, which focuses on risk factors and protective factors for immigrant youth crime also notes that immigrant youth are no more likely to commit crime than non-immigrant youth.  https://sites.ualberta.ca/~pcerii/WorkingPapers/WP0209.pdf

 

 

[OftenWrong]

If the immigrants have a life and a job, they don't need to think about committing crime. I don't think the correlation is with immigration per se, but with poverty. And that has been understood in the past, the kind of immigrants we want to bring in to Canada are the ones who have enough education and skill to make something out of themselves with minimal government support.

[dialamah]

44 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

If the immigrants have a life and a job, they don't need to think about committing crime. I don't think the correlation is with immigration per se, but with poverty. And that has been understood in the past, the kind of immigrants we want to bring in to Canada are the ones who have enough education and skill to make something out of themselves with minimal government support.

I agree that poverty is a significant factor when it comes to crime.   Canada's point system does focus on economic viability of immigrants (I think we can thank Harper for that). But when we have Canadians who will disregard applicants with a non-Canadian name on the resume and knowing nothing else about them, then we have to wonder how much of the immigrant's community unemployment is because they can't work or how much is due to biases against them?

I was just visiting Williams Lake, and my brother told me that McDonald's cannot fill all the shifts.  I bet they would love some less killed refugees/immigrants right now.   I have heard similar reports from elsewhere in Canada, that fast-food joints and low-paying retail outlets are having trouble finding enough staff.   Perhaps we should be focusing on less skilled newcomers so we can keep those low-paying jobs, low-paying.

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

56 minutes ago, dialamah said:

   Perhaps we should be focusing on less skilled newcomers so we can keep those low-paying jobs, low-paying.

 

Don't worry refugees wil fill up vacant low paying jobs where there is no consideration for education or skills in our refugee system.

Edited October 8, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

There've been several studies demonstrating that when new immigrants move into an area, the crime rate in that area goes down. 

It's nice to have academic studies, but when they flatly contradict reality one has to question just what assumptions and definitions these academics are making use of.

You have yet to come up with a reason why almost everyone on the RCMP wanted lists (or the Ottawa one) is a visible minority member. Two thirds of visible minority members are immigrants, according to the government, and almost all the rest are their children.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Argus

[H10]

On 10/5/2017 at 5:57 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

I'd theorize it increases crime.  These are mostly people coming from developing countries with dubious rule of law & corruption is the norm & you often have to do anything to get ahead in order to survive & be safe.  Bringing in Somali refugees or people from Nigeria, Jamaica, Haiti, El Salvador, Afghanistan or any of the other worst/poorest countries on the planet is going to logically increase crime I'd wager.  I have no stats though so who knows.  They certainly aren't all criminals though. 

Altai's stats don't prove any correlation.

Nigeria has far lower crime rates than Canada, for a country of almost 200 million people they only have twice as many people incarcerated as all of Canada which has close to 40 million people.  Nigeria's crime rate is actually just a fraction of Canada's.

The general correlation seems to be crime rates have fallen since the 1960s, now whether that is due to an increase in non-white immigrants as white immigrants like the irish, italians, eastern europeans and jews, were traditionally associated with higher crime rates and organized crime and mafia involvement that current immigrants do not have..

 

I suspect immigration in the 1920s and 1950s probably increased crime given that the immigrants were primarily coming from crime ridden regions where organized crime reigned supreme in Europe and due to the fact that there were poor controls. Now a days, with all the finger printing and technology and tracking and information, it is very hard for an immigrant to have a criminal lifestyle until they atleast become a citizen, without getting deported.

[H10]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

It's nice to have academic studies, but when they flatly contradict reality one has to question just what assumptions and definitions these academics are making use of.

You have yet to come up with a reason why almost everyone on the RCMP wanted lists (or the Ottawa one) is a visible minority member. 

Well there could be an obvious answer that you have just chosen to overlook.  Police racism, which is something that non-white people from coast to coast complain about and studies from universities have proven to be an empirical fact..  White people are close to 80% of the prison population, committ the vast majority of the crimes and go to prison for the vast majority of the crimes, including violent ones like rape where they are grossly over-represented for their general population.  Yet the RCMP is choosing not to list their faces.  It could be white police racism, it could be white police think all non-whites look alike so they want someone from that community to figure out who they are because they cannot. 

Also I just looked, of the 18 I saw in the ottawa citizen, about 13 appear to me to be white, which is roughly the white population of Ottawa.

 

Another reality is that most whites are born in Canada, they have a general better understanding of Canadian law enforcement procedures like dna, investigations, things like that, so when they commit crimes they take more steps to cover it up or make it look accidental or to hide evidence in a way police cannot find.  For instance, we are just now finding out about the large number of older white men like priest, coaches etc who were pedophiles all along.

 

[H10]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I agree that poverty is a significant factor when it comes to crime.   Canada's point system does focus on economic viability of immigrants (I think we can thank Harper for that). But when we have Canadians who will disregard applicants with a non-Canadian name on the resume and knowing nothing else about them, then we have to wonder how much of the immigrant's community unemployment is because they can't work or how much is due to biases against them?

I was just visiting Williams Lake, and my brother told me that McDonald's cannot fill all the shifts.  I bet they would love some less killed refugees/immigrants right now.   I have heard similar reports from elsewhere in Canada, that fast-food joints and low-paying retail outlets are having trouble finding enough staff.   Perhaps we should be focusing on less skilled newcomers so we can keep those low-paying jobs, low-paying.

 

I would add even in Toronto, the restuarants in downtown are mainly staffed by young high school dropouts in the front and university students and immigrants and tfws, especially in the back, the pay for just a regular old line cook making salads is like $15-$16 an hour or more with tips now.  Not even the immigrants want to work these jobs, they are too hard, too much lifting, too much fast paced work.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, H10 said:

Nigeria has far lower crime rates than Canada, for a country of almost 200 million people they only have twice as many people incarcerated as all of Canada which has close to 40 million people.  Nigeria's crime rate is actually just a fraction of Canada's.

The general correlation seems to be crime rates have fallen since the 1960s, now whether that is due to an increase in non-white immigrants as white immigrants like the irish, italians, eastern europeans and jews, were traditionally associated with higher crime rates and organized crime and mafia involvement that current immigrants do not have..

What a bunch of hogwash.  Nigeria is in the top ten for highest crime index in the world and also in the top 10 for lowest safety index in the world.  Give me a break.  Nigeria doesn't incarcerate people like in Canada because it has very poor rule of law, that isn't enforced like Canada, it's laws are garbage, and many of the people there are violent criminal fools.

Nigeria has an intentional murder rate almost 9x higher than Canada.  Compared to Canada that country is a hellhole, that's one of the many reasons why people want to leave there and come here, and we bring many people from there into Canada who may not be proven criminals (because again, what good are criminal police checks by Canadian immigration officials and RCMP/CSIS with Nigerian authorities when the Nigerian state & others like it don't even investigate or enforce the law) but have the culture they grew up with in Nigeria where crime is a way of life to survive then they bring that BS in to Canada, along with the problems of poverty that they live under etc. A lifetime of learning this criminal behaviour doesn't go away when you get off an airplane.   If an individual isn't a net benefit to Canada in terms of economics, health, safety etc they need to GTFO. Time to call a spade a spade and stop harming our country in the name of charity and political correctness. 

Canada is one of the most generous countries in the world and in world history, we welcome everyone (including Nigerians) who wants to contribute their share to this wonderful exclusive club we have and follow its laws and basic values, and people worldwide want to come here because it's one of the best societies in the history of human civilization and we all need to keep it that way or what they hell is the point?  We should be improving this country, not turning it more towards a 3rd world piece of shit like where these people are fleeing.

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[Argus]

4 hours ago, H10 said:

Well there could be an obvious answer that you have just chosen to overlook.  Police racism,

Drivel.

4 hours ago, H10 said:

Also I just looked, of the 18 I saw in the ottawa citizen, about 13 appear to me to be white, which is roughly the white population of Ottawa.

Apparently either you can't count or you can't tell a person's race by looking at a picture and name.

 

[H10]

51 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What a bunch of hogwash.  Nigeria is in the top ten for highest crime index in the world and also in the top 10 for lowest safety index in the world.  Give me a break.  Nigeria doesn't incarcerate people like in Canada because it has very poor rule of law, that isn't enforced like Canada, it's laws are garbage, and many of the people there are violent criminal fools.

Nigeria has an intentional murder rate almost 9x higher than Canada.  Compared to Canada that country is a hellhole, that's one of the many reasons why people want to leave there and come here, and we bring many people from there into Canada who may not be proven criminals (because again, what good are criminal police checks by Canadian immigration officials and RCMP/CSIS with Nigerian authorities when the Nigerian state & others like it don't even investigate or enforce the law) but have the culture they grew up with in Nigeria where crime is a way of life to survive then they bring that BS in to Canada, along with the problems of poverty that they live under etc. A lifetime of learning this criminal behaviour doesn't go away when you get off an airplane.   If an individual isn't a net benefit to Canada in terms of economics, health, safety etc they need to GTFO. Time to call a spade a spade and stop harming our country in the name of charity and political correctness. 

Canada is one of the most generous countries in the world and in world history, we welcome everyone (including Nigerians) who wants to contribute their share to this wonderful exclusive club we have and follow its laws and basic values, and people worldwide want to come here because it's one of the best societies in the history of human civilization and we all need to keep it that way or what they hell is the point?  We should be improving this country, not turning it more towards a 3rd world piece of shit like where these people are fleeing.

 

Lol, yeah you know there is no evidence to support your position when you have to dive down into to Numbeo dot com.  Nigeria has much stricter laws than Canada, and while Canada has many laws, the enforcement is very lax and criminals get off all the time, ask any victim of a crime or their family, how many murder cases where the judges just plain old through out the case because of too much time to bring it to court again in Canada?  Many of the people in Canada are violent criminals, most of them up north and in rural areas locked away in prison.  Nigeria's murder rate is much lower than Canada's and you make yourself look foolish by citing sources that only you can edit like numbeo and wikipedia and are not considered generally valid sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm

In fact, 64% of the 40,000 people in Nigerian jails haven't even been convicted but are just awaiting trial, so Nigeria actually has fewer convicted criminals than Canada in prison system

"In 2015/2016, there were on average 120,568 adult offenders on a given day, in either custody or in a community program"

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2017001/article/14700-eng.htm

 

In Nigeria, there is no community program, you go to prison or jail, the laws are far more strict too.

 

Canada has a far higher homicide rate than Nigeria. Just look at the homicide rate in lagos, The National Population Commission of Nigeria, which put the population at over 21 million in 2016, and there are 220 homicides in Lagos. 21 million divided by 220 is about 95,000.  The is roughly  1 murder per 100,000 people in Nigeria's largest city that reports the most homicides.  Compared to Canada's which is 1.5 and Toronto is 1.4.  Canada actually has almost 50% more murders.  If Toronto was  Lagos' size, it have almost double the murders.

 

Wasn't it two Canadian girls who were caught in nigeria committing crime in a large scale international scandal?

 

I agree that a people do not stop committing crime when they have adapted a criminal lifestyle like bombing people's countries, robbing them off their land, enslaving them and stealing their labor, and genociding perhaps this is why whites in Canada have such a high murder rate compared to Nigerians who have half the homicide rate and far less people in the prison system despite a much larger population.

It is easy to be generous with other people's money, mainly the money that white people obtained through enslaving and robbing indians and africans in Canada.

[H10]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

Drivel.

Apparently either you can't count or you can't tell a person's race by looking at a picture and name.

 

RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson conceded before a group of First Nations leaders on Wednesday that there are racists inside his police force, a surprising admission welcomed by indigenous people, who say it is key to addressing the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women.

"I understand that there are racists in my police force. I don't want them to be in my police force," 

 

When even the head of police admit the force is filled to the brink with racist and he can't even get them out, you only embarass yourself by denying it.

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, H10 said:

Nigeria's murder rate is much lower than Canada's and you make yourself look foolish by citing sources that only you can edit like numbeo and wikipedia and are not considered generally valid sources....Canada has a far higher homicide rate than Nigeria.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm

OK then here's a UN cite.  Any data you find will tell you murder rates and crime rates in Nigeria are far worse than Canada. http://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=NIGERIA#Social

Give me a break.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, H10 said:

RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson conceded before a group of First Nations leaders on Wednesday that there are racists inside his police force, a surprising admission welcomed by indigenous people, who say it is key to addressing the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women.

"I understand that there are racists in my police force. I don't want them to be in my police force," 

 

When even the head of police admit the force is filled to the brink with racist and he can't even get them out, you only embarass yourself by denying it.

Is English a second language to you? Because admitting there are racists on the police force - as there are in every other profession and every other large organization - does not mean it is 'filled to the brink' with racists. As for embarrassing yourself, I see now that you're the same clown I put on my ignore list  before, only with a new name. So this is the last I'll see of your lunatic troll posts.