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After the worst mass shooting ever, Australia solved it's gun problem. It's not too late. Guns kill more people than cars in 15+ states, that's insane. Gun laws have to change, attitudes towards the LGBTQ community have to change, the level of religious fanaticism has to change. Saying these are big problems and admitting defeat is not the way to proceed.

Sure, and with a sea change you might affect things many years down the road. I don't know what Australia was like prior to the shooting but how much actual change, in terms of gun numbers and ownership, was made? Rhetorical question, but I daresay they weren't in the position the US finds itself in now.

As to attitudes towards the LGBTQ community, that is exactly what has been happening. Attitudes have been changing for years, in the west. I suppose that's why that community felt safe enough in a club openly dedicated to their lifestyle.

Levels of religious fanaticism have to be acknowledged fully, and without prejudice, before they can be tackled. Quite often there is a reluctance to do that when it comes to Islam. It baffles me as to why.

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Not 6 months ago, high ranking Republicans Cruz, Jindal and Huckabee shared the stage with Pastor Kevin Swanson at Christian rally where he called for the death penalty for homosexuals and praised the Christian nation of Uganda for enacting that very same law.

Does that influential pastor, or governors, senators and presidential hopefuls or Christian nation speak for all followers of the faith?

Are there thousands and thousands and thousands of Kevin Swansons out there in the same way there are thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslim imams who give thunderous speeches calling for the death of Homosexuals, Jews and other infidels?

You get back to me when the Vatican implements the death penalty for homosexuality the way Saudi Arabia has.

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He had no history of mental instability. You are getting that from his wife claiming he was crazy, and that he beat her for trivial things, like not doing the laundry. But here's the thing, beating your wife for not doing the laundry is not considered crazy in much of the middle east. I know of no Muslim country where it's even against the law to beat your wife. I've seen and posted surveys of Muslim countries where women not only expected to be beaten for what we consider trivial things (like going to the doctor without his permission) but felt they would largely deserve to be beaten.

So even though we have millions of Muslims NOT killing gays, and we have lots of non-Muslims with violent propensity going on mass-shooting rampages, you can't entertain the idea that perhaps Omar Mateen's mental instability could have something to do with it.

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So even though we have millions of Muslims NOT killing gays, and we have lots of non-Muslims with violent propensity going on mass-shooting rampages, you can't entertain the idea that perhaps Omar Mateen's mental instability could have something to do with it.

We also have millions of legal gun owners NOT committing mass murder.

Edited by Boges
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So even though we have millions of Muslims NOT killing gays, and we have lots of non-Muslims with violent propensity going on mass-shooting rampages, you can't entertain the idea that perhaps Omar Mateen's mental instability could have something to do with it.

If Islam = insanity...then yes.

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Levels of religious fanaticism have to be acknowledged fully, and without prejudice, before they can be tackled. Quite often there is a reluctance to do that when it comes to Islam. It baffles me as to why.

I'd say there is a reluctance to do so with all religion. Certainly there are far too many liberals who would defend Islam out of what I expected are feelings of sympathy for minorities. It isn't right, but I believe it is largely in response to the considerable bigotry on the right.

Still, Christian fanaticism is systematically excused as well. In response to Republican leadership candidates legitimizing pastors who call for the death penalty for gays or say no Muslims allowed or that women should be subservient to their husbands, the typical response is "yeah well Islam is worse." As if that excuses the actions and growing fanaticism and fascism of the Christian right.

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We also have millions of legal gun owners NOT committing mass murder.

Yes. The common denominator seems to be mental health instability coupled with easy access to military guns.

The religious views of the criminal is the only factor with any variance.

That's pretty much my point.

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Yes. The common denominator seems to be mental health instability coupled with easy access to military guns.

The religious views of the criminal is the only factor with any variance.

That's pretty much my point.

Okay...this one is insane. What about the next one...there will be a next one...and more after that.

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Are there thousands and thousands and thousands of Kevin Swansons out there in the same way there are thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslim imams who give thunderous speeches calling for the death of Homosexuals, Jews and other infidels?

You get back to me when the Vatican implements the death penalty for homosexuality the way Saudi Arabia has.

Prominent Christian speakers, in the richest nation in the world are telling their thousands followers that homosexuals deserve death and are praising Christian nations that do kill them. Republican leaders show up to pose with these evil men. Republicans are passing laws to allow Christians to discriminate against gays or assert their beliefs over employees or prevent equal rights.

Do you believe that evil being done in the name of Islam excuses what is being done in the name of Christianity? Seems like a hypocritical response to me.

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Prominent Christian speakers, in the richest nation in the world are telling their thousands followers that homosexuals deserve death and are praising Christian nations that do kill them. Republican leaders show up to pose with these evil men. Republicans are passing laws to allow Christians to discriminate against gays or assert their beliefs over employees or prevent equal rights.

Do you believe that evil being done in the name of Islam excuses what is being done in the name of Christianity? Seems like a hypocritical response to me.

Let's see...the church you reference is considered a hate group in most circles. The video you posted has thousands of dislikes to a handful of likes...the man is hated outside his wacky church. But, most of all, despite all his rhetoric, no massacres have resulted.

This is what for Islam this year in terms of mass shootings/killings? There will be more...

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So even though we have millions of Muslims NOT killing gays, and we have lots of non-Muslims with violent propensity going on mass-shooting rampages, you can't entertain the idea that perhaps Omar Mateen's mental instability could have something to do with it.

So even though Islam has a vocal and violent stance on homosexuality, you can't entertain the idea that perhaps Islam likewise played a role?

What bothers me about the mental health aspect of this is that it's being employed as an excuse to whitewash the rest of it and pretend it's not there. Similar to "Oh, the Montreal Massacre wasn't inspired by hatred of women, Marc Lepine was just crazy, that's all it was." Well, no, that's not all it was.

Is it unrealistic to suggest that extreme rhetoric, like the kind of anti-gay rhetoric we hear from religious conservatives, might have an influence on people who are already volatile or violent by nature?

-k

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Yes. The common denominator seems to be mental health instability coupled with easy access to military guns.

The religious views of the criminal is the only factor with any variance.

That's pretty much my point.

There is no evidence of any mental instability besides his ex-wife saying he was abusive. This just looks like a muslim being radicalized to me.

Of course the ex-wife will say he was mentally ill and the family will say it wasn't terrorism and the media will say it was guns - what else could be expected?

BTW - If a christian pulls off the old mass killing and claims it was because of his religious views, then thats exactly why he did it.

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BTW - If a christian pulls off the old mass killing and claims it was because of his religious views, then thats exactly why he did it.

Will it be a huge shock to anyone if the Indiana kid who was on his way to the LA Pride Parade with a car-load of guns and explosives was just such a guy?

-k

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Let's see...the church you reference is considered a hate group in most circles. The video you posted has thousands of dislikes to a handful of likes...the man is hated outside his wacky church. But, most of all, despite all his rhetoric, no massacres have resulted.

This is what for Islam this year in terms of mass shootings/killings? There will be more...

Hate is hate, regardless of the justification. Saying 'Ya but religion X is worse' or 'Ya but my holy books says I should kill X' doesn't excuse evil.

The conference attended by Jindal, Cruz and Huckabee was hosted by people with a total radio audience of between 5 to 15 million conservative Christians. Legitimizing those that call for the death, misogyny and the creation of a Christian theocracy can't be excused because of Islam or the need for votes.

Edited by Guest
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Hate is hate, regardless of the justification. Saying 'Ya but religion X is worse' or 'Ya but my holy books says I should kill X' doesn't excuse evil.

The conference attended by Jindal, Cruz and Huckabee was hosted by people with a total radio audience of between 5 to 15 million conservative Christians. Legitimizing those that call for the death, misogyny and the creation of a Christian theocracy can't be excused because of Islam or the need for votes.

How many homosexual were killed and or arrested?

False moral equivalency. There are many Christian bigots, but they rarely call for violence. It's common with Islam. Again not to say it's all, or even most Muslims that have these few, but a good minority do.

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The fact that people are made to believe old violent books are the words of supernatural beings and must be followed is a problem....regardless of which main character you root for.

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Having been convinced by the racists and nationalists on this board that Muslims are taking over North America, I decided to join them and converted a couple of days ago. Just found out there are about a million more Muslims, just like me, in Canada. The shooter in Orlando does not represent my religion. Besides those 50 killed in Orlando, another 950 were killed by guns this last month in the USA. I am not sure of the motives of those other folks but nobody seems interested then I won't either.

My first disappointment was when I found out from my Imam that those 72 virgins are really 72 raisins according to the Koran. It seems that radical Islamists looking for recruits to violence and racial bigots looking for something to ridicule Islam, made up those 72 virgins. What a bummer. I was counting on those virgins as a back up if the Infidels ever did me in. I wonder if that shooter in Orlando knew that the 72 virgins was a joke?

Well, back to my crescent rolls and practicing with my beach towel to make a turban.

Remember - be a pal, eat halal!

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Will it be a huge shock to anyone if the Indiana kid who was on his way to the LA Pride Parade with a car-load of guns and explosives was just such a guy?

-k

Exactly, if he says his christian faith inspired him to want to kill gays, they one would have to believe him. If he says it's because he thinks gay people are icky, if he read "catcher in the rye" or even if he did it to impress Jodi Foster, then thats why he did it.

The desire to make up reasons when the reason is clearly given to us, is sheer idiocy - and denial.

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Having been convinced by the racists and nationalists on this board that Muslims are taking over North America, I decided to join them and converted a couple of days ago. Just found out there are about a million more Muslims, just like me, in Canada. The shooter in Orlando does not represent my religion. Besides those 50 killed in Orlando, another 950 were killed by guns this last month in the USA. I am not sure of the motives of those other folks but nobody seems interested then I won't either.

My first disappointment was when I found out from my Imam that those 72 virgins are really 72 raisins according to the Koran. It seems that radical Islamists looking for recruits to violence and racial bigots looking for something to ridicule Islam, made up those 72 virgins. What a bummer. I was counting on those virgins as a back up if the Infidels ever did me in. I wonder if that shooter in Orlando knew that the 72 virgins was a joke?

Well, back to my crescent rolls and practicing with my beach towel to make a turban.

Remember - be a pal, eat halal!

You've already been told that this is not an amusing shtick.

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This is what for Islam this year in terms of mass shootings/killings? There will be more...

you're asking? I'm shocked this thread went a similar way as... how many others? :lol:

I would think you would have those/that number. I can tell you what I've read earlier this morning... that this is the 16th mass shooting that U.S. President Obama has had to come forward to the American people and speak to. Start there... do your 'Islamic math' on those 16 - yes?

.

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Hate is hate, regardless of the justification. Saying 'Ya but religion X is worse' or 'Ya but my holy books says I should kill X' doesn't excuse evil.

The conference attended by Jindal, Cruz and Huckabee was hosted by people with a total radio audience of between 5 to 15 million conservative Christians. Legitimizing those that call for the death, misogyny and the creation of a Christian theocracy can't be excused because of Islam or the need for votes.

Okay...I'm convinced. No need to do anything re: Islam.

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On September 22, 2000, Ronald Gay opened fire on Backstreet Cafe, a gay bar in Roanoke, Virginia, killing Danny Overstreet, 43, and severely injuring six others. Gay was angry that his last name could mean “homosexual” and said God had told him to kill gay people. He called himself a “Christian Soldier working for my Lord” and testified in court that he wished he could have “killed more fags.”

If the Pulse nightclub is about Islam, then the Backstreet Cafe is about Christianity. They are both equally vile.

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