America under President Trump

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, Pacifica77 said:

Nope....... that "blame  trump"   comeback is getting old and  ineffective.   If Trumpians had their way..Trump would not be  criticized  for anything. That is NOT reality.  The "blame Trump' things is  used when        they have  no other argument.

Wrong. You're stuck in the prison of two ideas P77.

Alt leftists literally blame Trump for everything or give all credit to Obama. There are no shades of grey, there's no sliding scale, there's no distribution of credit or guilt, there's just no logic or reason or fairness applied to anything.

LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF DEATHS FROM COVID IN THE US - TRUMP KILLED 90,000 PEOPLE!

A rational person looks at the ACTIONS taken by the President, what info was available at the time, what other politicians were saying and doing at the time, what the conventional wisdom was at the time the actions were taken, which actions (or lack thereof) resulted in good and bad outcomes, etc.

An irrational person just finds a way to attack with the benefit of hindsight. This is especially problematic when the people launching the attack didn't have the right answers back at the time the decision was made.

 

EG - I called Trudeau an idiot for not banning travel from China and for telling people not to wear masks back at the end of January. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, it's obvious that I was right. There were other countries that were doing those things, so these are things that Trudeau was aware of as well - the conventional wisdom was out there but he didn't follow it. That means that now, I can say that Trudeau did the wrong things and killed people because I've been consistent right from the time the original actions were taken.

On the other hand, there are people attacking Trump saying "woulda coulda shoulda" now, with the benefit of hindsight, but they weren't saying any of those things back in January. Pelosi wasn't telling people to wear masks, to practice social distancing, etc back in January. She complained about the travel ban and then she attracted a massive crowd to Chinatown in SF 24 days after Trump was already taking the virus seriously enough to block travel from China. It was basically a huge anti-social distancing party. The Dems and CNN weren't talking about taking actions to fight covid back when Trump was already busy doing it, the Dems and CNN were talking about Ukrainian collusion and their Primary nomination process. Now all of a sudden it's "TRUMP DID THE WRONG THINGS - LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED!!!!" Sorry but people like Pelosi, DeBlasio and Cuomo who were doing things that were EXTREMELY COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE back when Trump was taking positive strides don't get to blab. They need to stfu. Their criticisms aren't valid. They're stupid and hypocritical.

 

Your post was cute, but not on point.

There are realistic criticisms of Trump to be made re: covid, as with anything, but as Canadians we have to make those criticisms realistically, and hold our PM to the exact same standards when possible: what did they do both do in January? In February? In March? Any realistic comparison of their actions shows Trump way ahead. So anti-Trump idiots point to situations which aren't comparable and then draw straight-line comparisons to make idiotic noise. As usual.

FYI NYC is the planet's Petri dish. The UN is there, so people constantly fly in from every corner of the globe. They have a subway with 4.3M people on it every day. That doesn't compare to anything we have in Canada. America's population density is an order of magnitude higher than ours. They'd have to cover 3 continents to get their pop density down to ours. 

 

Was I right to characterize leftist's opinions as "BLAME TRUMP!!!!"? No, I should have said "BLAME TRUMP!!!! SCREAM IDIOTIC PLATITUDES AND SHOUT DOWN REASONABLE DISCUSSION WITH AD HOMINEM ATTACKS"

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by WestCanMan

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Interesting that you cite Quebec, which has led the Canadian charge to return to work, despite having half the country’s C-19 deaths.  Brazen?  Wise or foolish?  Trump just said, “Vaccine or no vaccine, we’re back.”   Quebec’s Legault is on that wavelength.  Does it put economic interests above health interests or are the health outcomes better if we get back to work and transition out of the extraordinary public spending required to keep people at home?  Whoever gets people back to work fastest with the best overall health outcomes over the long term wins in any country, state or province.

 

Trump instinctively understands the desire to get back to work even if that includes more mitigation efforts.   The totality of COVID-19 mistakes made to date will not be fully understood for years, but some key opportunities and strategies were missed because of shutdown policy and "experts" missteps (late travel bans, masks in public, long term care facilities, intubations, etc.)

President Trump's re-election chances have always depended on the economy, virus or no virus...like most other U.S. presidents.

[New World Disorder]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

President Trump's re-election chances have always depended on the economy, virus or no virus...like most other U.S. presidents.

Good thing the economy was taking before the virus. Now he can blame it on something and yet again think he's doing a good job.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

There are realistic criticisms of Trump to be made re: covid, as with anything, but as Canadians we have to make those criticisms realistically, and hold our PM to the exact same standards when possible:

Valid point    Or any  other leader for that matter .......when it comes to how they  have and are handling  the  Pandemic   crisis. It is a world pandemic.... so each leader  can be assessed on is / her own merit.  Some nations have been more organized,   and took it seriously  earlier   that others. The thing is that this virus  caught most ff guard........so some  scrambling   and mistakes  have been bound to  happen.    Most nations did not ply down or minimize  this pandemic   .   Because it is world wide..... we must  learn  WITH  each other  and assist each other   too.  It is a tragedy  when politics   interfere with  a  Health crisis......... when  science    and facts are paramount. A crisis  like this should  bring out the very best in humans........but  sadly, all  too often wee  otherwise. People's views   on this are as varied as  the number of people themselves. Some probably  still believe it is a hoax of some kind ,  or some master plan by some  malevolent nation   or   something out of Stephen Kings  novel.   That is just  human nature. 

 

What I do think is that  we should become less  partisan  and more  people  oriented  I could care less what political slant one has.......... and particularly now  when  we are all dealing with a HUMAN  Medical CRISIS.   The virus could care less if one is  Dem or  Republican or liberal  or conservative..  Why do  people put so  much importance on that?? It really is not necessary. In the final analysis   One party is NOT better than the other.......... It is just DIFFERENT. What matters is the person , and their ideas......as that is what makes them unique.  How we collectively handle this  WORLD  pandemic  will determine   our collective future.  There are lessons to be learned  This is our  opportunity  to evolve as a species.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Guest

[WestCanMan]

20 minutes ago, Pacifica77 said:

Valid point    Or any  other leader for that matter .......when it comes to how they  have and are handling  the  Pandemic   crisis. It is a world pandemic.... so each leader  can be assessed on is / her own merit.  Some nations have been more organized,   and took it seriously  earlier   that others. The thing is that this virus  caught most ff guard........so some  scrambling   and mistakes  have been bound to  happen.    Most nations did not ply down or minimize  this pandemic   .   Because it is world wide..... we must  learn  WITH  each other  and assist each other   too.  It is a tragedy  when politics   interfere with  a  Health crisis......... when  science    and facts are paramount. A crisis  like this should  bring out the very best in humans........but  sadly, all  too often wee  otherwise. People's views   on this are as varied as  the number of people themselves. Some probably  still believe it is a hoax of some kind ,  or some master plan by some  malevolent nation   or   something out of Stephen Kings  novel.   That is just  human nature. 

 

What I do think is that  we should become less  partisan  and more  people  oriented  I could care less what political slant one has.......... and particularly now  when  we are all dealing with a HUMAN  Medical CRISIS.   The virus could care less if one is  Dem or  Republican or liberal  or conservative..  Why do  people put so  much importance on that?? It really is not necessary. In the final analysis   One party is NOT better than the other.......... It is just DIFFERENT. What matters is the person , and their ideas......as that is what makes them unique.  How we collectively handle this  WORLD  pandemic  will determine   our collective future.  There are lessons to be learned  This is our  opportunity  to evolve as a species.

All good, valid points.

Asian countries like Japan and SoKo kicked butt vs covid. We should have been copying them instead of listening to the WHO. Luckily this virus wasn't deadlier or we'd be royally screwed.

 

I'm not a huge conspiracy theory guy, but I had my doubts from the beginning that this came from a wet market and I have very little doubt left that it came from the BSL4 lab in Wuhan now.

Whether it was released accidentally or intentionally is another topic all on it's own, but China acted very conspicuously in a number of ways, and America was hit pretty hard which is also suspicious.

Red Flags:

Chinese gov't forced Doctors who raised the alarm to sign confessions that they were lying, some of them are missing or dead from "covid", the gov't destroyed data, they lied about H2H transmission, they banned travel from Hubei province to other parts of China while they were still allowing passngers to fly to international destinations from there, they lied about the number of dead (they corrected their death total upwards by 50% on one day), they had people in foreign countries buy up the N95 mask supplies, they're selling fake N95s at a huge premium now, they didn't allow foreign scientists in to help, and the US [China's main geopolitical rival] was effected to a greater extent than any other country. 

Honestly there are a lot of red flags, but allowing passengers to fly from Wuhan to other countries when they couldn't go to Shanghai or Beijing is very telling. Couple that with the fact that were lying about H2H transmission, it seems like they really wanted to infect the world. If they were actively trying to infect the whole world they would have played it all out the exact same way.

 

[Boges]

Is owning the Libs taking a drug that there's no evidence it works as a treatment let alone a preventative measure? 

It's telling that people aren't sure if Trump is dumb enough to actually Hydroxychloroquine to boose his immune system or he's lying just to save face because he was peddling Snake Oil. 

Why can't he just pivot to Remdesivir? That's a treatment that has shown promise. 

All this on a day that some promising vaccine news came down. It's so weird. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

18 minutes ago, Boges said:

Why can't he just pivot to Remdesivir? That's a treatment that has shown promise. 

All this on a day that some promising vaccine news came down. It's so weird. 

I seriously doubt the POTUS prescribes his own medication.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I seriously doubt the POTUS prescribes his own medication.

Yeah because the White House Doctor can go rogue and not do what Trump says. 

Same dude who was forced to say Trump is the model of good health. 

[Boges]

In the continued assault against expertise, Trump thinks he knows better than the FDA.

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

Quote

FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems

And as noted by many, someone that fat and that old has a high risk of heart problems. 

[OftenWrong]

42 minutes ago, Boges said:

Yeah because the White House Doctor can go rogue and not do what Trump says. 

Same dude who was forced to say Trump is the model of good health. 

I wouldn’t doubt that the doctor has some authority over the medication and health of the POTUS.

[Boges]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

I wouldn’t doubt that the doctor has some authority over the medication and health of the POTUS.

Then he's also derelict. 

Just like when he said Trump was the model of good health. 

[Tdot]

47 minutes ago, Boges said:

In the continued assault against expertise, Trump thinks he knows better than the FDA.

...

Once again, you have resorted to sleazy Dem tactics/your propagandized-hyperbole, since Trump never at no time said he thinks he knows better than the FDA. So you should be fair here, and edit your post for honesty.

Trump did the same thing that you do and other Dems do, when you fairly listened to medical pro's cautions and warnings then used your Right to Medicate your own body with whatever legal meds that you please. That's all.  It is sad how your, deranged posts, seek to propangize and basically "criminalize" every move or act or deed by President Trump.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Tdot

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Tdot said:

Once again, you have resorted to sleazy Dem tactics/your propagandized-hyperbole, since Trump never at no time said he thinks he knows better than the FDA. So you should be fair here, and edit your post for honesty.

Trump did the same thing that you do and other Dems do, when you fairly listened to medical pro's cautions and warnings then used your Right to Medicate your own body in whatever that you please. That's all.  It is sad how your, deranged posts, seek to propangize and basically "criminalize" every move or act or deed by President Trump.

It's cute that you really believe he's taking a drug that causes heart issues. It really is cute. 

There is scant if no evidence this drug works. He's saving face because he peddled a drug that doesn't work. 

Trump is a grifter and a snake oil salesman through and through. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Boges

[Tdot]

You continuing to namecall Trump and apply your Dem propagandized-hyperbole, only displays your own ignorance of real life events. Which of course, hurts your credibility when people see you here "bragging" about being ill-informed on the issues. See, look:

 

 

[New World Disorder]

I went to Trump University,  and to celebrate my graduation, I am flying Trump Airlines to the Taj Mahal to enjoy a Trump steak with some Trump wine.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

It's cute that you really believe he's taking a drug that causes heart issues. It really is cute. 

There is scant if no evidence this drug works. He's saving face because he peddled a drug that doesn't work. 

Trump is a grifter and a snake oil salesman through and through. 

There's an idiotic propaganda war against HCQ and you're a part of it.

HCQ's side effects are being wildly exaggerated and every study that showed it's effectiveness is being downplayed "there's no evidence yet, just a few small trials!" Then there's one trial that doesn't go well and it's "HCQ WAS ABSOLUTELY UNEQUIVOCALLY PROVEN TO BE 100.0% USELESS! TRUMP IS A SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN!!!! HE PROMISED THAT IT WAS THE CURE!!!! WE HAVE TO STAY LOCKED DOWN UNTIL THERE"S A VACCINE"

Are you ever going to get off the CNN Crapaganda bus Boges or is their opinion on every subject just going to fly out of your mouth without any sort of filtering whatsoever? You're like Charlie Brown just kicking their stoogeball day in, day out, and coming out with egg on your face every time. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by WestCanMan

[eyeball]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:59 PM, WestCanMan said:

FYI Trump banned travel from China back when it was the exact right thing to do.

Following which another 13000 planes bearing 1.3 million travellers, 40000 of them from China, continued travelling to the US.  What's that phrase again, oh yeah...heck-of-a-job.

Quote

Your Mickey Mouse reasons for being mad at Trump are peanuts compared to the laundry list of actual reasons why you should be mad at Trudeau, the WHO, CNN, CBC and Pelosi, to name a few.

Your reasons for being proud of Trump are ridiculous compared to the logic and reasons you use to convince people they should be mad at everyone else. Jinping is the only other person that's truly comparable to Trump in terms of the scale of damage they've done and are still capable of.  Even combined together the rest don't come anywhere near as close.

Jinping and Trump are arguably the most dangerous and treacherous human beings on the face of the planet and for the very same reason.

Edited May 19, 2020 by eyeball

[Infidel Dog]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Following which another 13000 planes bearing 1.3 million travellers, 40000 of them from China, continued travelling to the US.  What's that phrase again, oh yeah...heck-of-a-job.

Do have a link for that? There were notices and screenings starting in the beginning of January. Chinese travel restrictions and suspended entry began Jan. 31. Before that 14,000 people a day entered the United states from China. 

The suspensions did not include permanent residents or their families. There were other exemptions.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/

So it would be interesting to know exactly what you're talking about.

[WestCanMan]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Following which another 13000 planes bearing 1.3 million travellers, 40000 of them from China, continued travelling to the US.  What's that phrase again, oh yeah...heck-of-a-job.

So you're intentionally misrepresenting the situation, and why? Are you still completely ignorant to the facts [109 days since the travel ban] or do you completely lack integrity?

1) the 40,000 that came from China were citizens or had some type of immigration status there. It would be atrocious and highly unconstitutional for the POTUS to tell US Citizens "You can't come home!" Also, they couldn't force China to keep US citizens there during a pandemic. 

2) Japan, SoKo and other countries did the exact same thing and it worked for them, so yeah, Trump did a heckuva job there. The problem is that 400,000 people flew to the US from China between the start of the outbreak and Jan 31. 

I don't doubt that the Chinese gov't ensured that there were some infected passengers in that group but until they want to brag about it we'll never know for sure. 

Quote

Your reasons for being proud of Trump are ridiculous compared to the logic and reasons you use to convince people they should be mad at everyone else. Jinping is the only other person that's truly comparable to Trump in terms of the scale of damage they've done and are still capable of.  Even combined together the rest don't come anywhere near as close.

Jinping and Trump are arguably the most dangerous and treacherous human beings on the face of the planet and for the very same reason.

You clearly have no clue, as usual.

Trudeau blindly followed the intentionally awful advice of the WHO without question. It was utterly stupid. Every country on earth that had success fighting covid completely disregarded the WHO's intentionally awful advice. 

Instead of being a leader, Trudeau talked childishly about the travel ban. 

Trump at least got the fight against covid partly right. Trudeau got 100% wrong and then he was too arrogant to admit it until we had enough covid here to kill over 5,000 people. 

 

[Infidel Dog]

Also, I believe there was a mandatory quarantine for American residents coming back from China after the suspensions. Was there not?

Edited May 19, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Also, I believe there was a mandatory quarantine for American residents coming back from China after the suspensions. Was there not?

There was certainly a lot of belief going on alright.  People still believe it to this day.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

So you're intentionally misrepresenting the situation, and why? Are you still completely ignorant to the facts [109 days since the travel ban] or do you completely lack integrity?

1) the 40,000 that came from China were citizens or had some type of immigration status there. It would be atrocious and highly unconstitutional for the POTUS to tell US Citizens "You can't come home!" Also, they couldn't force China to keep US citizens there during a pandemic. 

This excuse/explanation/apology simply underscores the misrepresentative nature of the term ban when little to nothing was banned at all. Never mind the fact the ban did nothing to prevent people from getting around the ban by flying from China to another country and then to the US from there.

All the ban did was create the belief things were under control and a ridiculously false sense of security.  That is why experts disagreed with it and many must have known it would be no better than using Swiss cheese to stop the virus.  As for screening the millions who few into the States following the 'ban' that was an even worse joke that proved worse than useless.

Edited May 19, 2020 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This excuse/explanation/apology simply underscores the misrepresentative nature of the term ban when little to nothing was banned at all. Never mind the fact the ban did nothing to prevent people from getting around the ban by flying from China to another country and then to the US from there.

I don't have time for your childish bullshit today eyeball.

Chinese travellers were flying into the US at a rate of hundreds of thousands per month. Trump correctly identified that as a problem and put a stop to it.

Thousands of Chinese travellers were flying into Canada every month. Trudeau did nothing. 

Quote

All the ban did was create the belief things were under control and a ridiculously false sense of security.  That is why experts disagreed with it and many must have known it would be no better than using Swiss cheese to stop the virus.  As for screening the millions who few into the States following the 'ban' that was an even worse joke that proved worse than useless.

 Wrong, as usual.

The travel ban did not create a false sense of security because covid was already known to be in the US at that point. It just stopped tens of thousands of new carriers from coming in, travelling through airports, getting on subways, etc.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't have time for your childish bullshit today eyeball.

Fuck off then.

[Infidel Dog]

43 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There was certainly a lot of belief going on alright.  People still believe it to this day.

You should have looked it up if you didn't believe my suspicion. I know I just did. 

Quote

Last week, President Donald Trump announced a travel ban of 30 days for all incoming travelers from 27 European countries. The ban does not apply to US legal permanent residents, citizens, or direct family members of citizens. If you’re returning from Europe or other highrisk areas, you will be subject to a self-quarantine of 14 days and funneled through one of the following airports:

Boston-Logan International Airport (BOS), Massachusetts, Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD), Illinois, Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW), Texas, Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW), Michigan, Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL), Hawaii, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), Georgia, John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York, Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), California, Miami International Airport (MIA), Florida, Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), New Jersey, San Francisco International Airport (SFO), California, Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA), Washington, Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), Virginia.

https://uproxx.com/life/coronavirus-travel-bans-quarantine-worldwide/

Now don't you feel silly?