DogOnPorch Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 Dropping bombs on these civilians homes is not defending them. You wrote this. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
capricorn Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 They did not ask us how to get into this mess and now are looking for ways to get out. How is it looking for a way to get out when the coalition holds a planning meeting to cut off supply routes etc. etc.? Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
DogOnPorch Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 Yes I am. And BTW, the slight of hand attempt at switching "bomb" for "target" did not go unnoticed. Now then, I have some beachfront you may be interested in. You're free to believe whatever you like. If you want to believe that Canadian F-18s are strafing schoolyards or hospitals I'm certainly not going to change your mind. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
G Huxley Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) So Canada stood up to the Anglo-American imperial axis. Good job! This is the same axis that destroyed, Iraq, Libya, and Syria and has yet to face war crime trials of the criminals responsible. Edited January 20, 2016 by G Huxley Quote
capricorn Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 So Canada stood up to the Anglo-American imperial axis. Good job! Where did you read that? Defence Minister Sajjan has said he is busy looking at ways for Canada to remain active in the war against ISIS. This is the same axis that destroyed, Iraq, Libya, and Syria and has yet to face war crime trials of the criminals responsible. You forgot Lebanon. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
ReeferMadness Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 Don't we owe some sort of humanitarian effort to those innocent civilians being slaughtered? I'm not clear on what we "owe" but certainly humanitarian minded people want to help others. The first objective should be to not make things worse and that's why I don't favor bombing. There are also lots of non-lethal ways of helping such as funding refugee camps, accepting refugees, and diplomacy. War-mongers can sneer at that as a "warm blankets" policy if they wish but I look at it as a policy that recognizes reality. If we really want to be brave, Canada can start calling out all of the hypocrisy that is involved in all of the different countries. But that would piss off our allies and embarrass us so I won't hold my breath. Contained. Hitler was certainly contained. Before someone invokes Godwin's law, I want to point out a couple of salient facts regarding the Hitler analogy. 1. Bringing down Hitler cost tens of millions of lives and destroyed Europe. Western countries got off lightly because they either surrendered or came to the fight after Russia had ground down the Germans. The European portion of WWII was mainly a bloody war of attrition on the Russian Front, something nobody would ever guess from watching American war movies. 2. More importantly, fighting Hitler never should have been necessary. If the western allies weren't so determined to punish Germany after WWI, the conditions that allowed Hitler to rise in Germany likely never would have happened. And even as Hitler was rising, he had support around the world, not just in Germany. Did you know that IBM's German subsidiary supplied and programmed punch cards for the tabulating machines that allowed the Nazis to get a census of and track the Jews? In fact, IBM CEO Thomas Watson received a medal from Hitler himself for "Service to the Reich". Warmongers like it when people take from WWII the lesson that you need to band together and attack tyrants. The intelligent lesson to take is that monsters like Hitler won't take power at all if you prevent the conditions that make people desperate enough to support them. I am amazed at the excuses that are being thrown out for why we should excuse ourselves from defending these innocent civilians. Is that what you really think? The only way that things are going to get any better in the short term is for the proxy wars to stop. ISIS is only a bit player in the regional mess and focusing only on them is just a denial of reality. Longer term, it might help once the world transitions away from fossil fuels. Then they will have to stop buying high tech weaponry and the big countries will be less interested in manipulating the politics. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Moonlight Graham Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Because regardless of how or why ISIS exists in the first place, they are major league scum bags who engage in wide spread human rights abuses. Some people have the belief that individuals (or countries) that have the resources to protect innocent people should do so. When have we ever intervened militarily primarily over humanitarian concerns? Put it this way... do you think Canada should have joined in WW2? After all, there was little risk to the Canadian mainland from German or Japanese attack. Granted, Hitler was the aggressor, but it was still a foreign problem. Hitler and ISIS are 2 completely different situations that aren't really comparable. Ie: Hitler annexed France. ISIS has zero capability of that. They might blow up a few coffee shops in response to France bombing them though. Canada is a western-style democracy with constitutionally-guaranteed freedoms and a free market economy. Although reducing things down to "they hate our freedoms" sounds a little simplistic, there is a bit of truth to it. "Hating our freedoms" is very low on the list for why ISIS wants to attack Canada or the West. Plus, there is also the possibility that, even if we were not engaged militarily, they would attack us as a way to draw us in to the conflict. Yeah, that's a big one. ISIS is a very minimal threat to Canada and its sovereign territory. They have yet to have even attacked us. IMO we should do what we can within reason to defend against domestic attack, and leave the bombing to the US because they created this problem in the 1st place, so it's theirs to spend blood and treasure to fix, not us. By the way, from what I understand, Tunisia was attacked by ISIS back in the spring of 2015, before it was a member of the coalition. So yes, it is possible to be subject to ISIS attacks even if you're not bombing them. Tunisia is not the west, it's an Arab Muslim country. Completely different situation. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 When have we ever intervened militarily primarily over humanitarian concerns? Here, by the previous Liberal Government. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Your premise that ISIS is only going after the West because the West interferes is nonsense. ISIS are thugs that want to kill. They create enemies as a recruiting tool and there is nothing the "enemies" can do to prevent it. You obviously haven't been reading anything ISIS (or al-Qaeda) has been saying about the West and why it wants to attack the West. Is it a coincidence ISIS sympathizers attacked Canadian soldiers in Ottawa and QC only a few weeks after our Parliament voted to start attacking ISIS in Iraq? Being "a thug" isn't a motive. Their primary goal right now is to secure their own state and then bring down the "apostate" Muslims regimes in the ME. the West is interfering with that, so they attack us. If we never bothered them there would be no reason to attack our sovereign soil until they've conquered the ME...which will never happen. Let Iran and Saudi Arabia deal with these guys first. If ISIS can beat them (highly unlikely) then they will be a threat to us, Good reading: http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm http://www.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/Issue-13-the-rafidah.pdf Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 It is? It's not clear to anyone else. In fact, it's fairly clear to anyone who listens to them that their plan of expansion is essentially limitless, and certainly doesn't stop at the borders of Iraq or Syria. Spain and Portugal, among other areas of the world, are on their target list as what they call "Muslim territory". http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/597254/ISIS-Map-Europe-Terror-Organisation-Andrew-Hosken-Caliphate-Abu-Musab-al-Zarqawi See what I just said to TimG. They want to expand their caliphate across the entire world, but want to conquer the ME first. Good luck to them attacking Iran and Saudi Arabia and Israel. If they beat those guys, almost certainly not possible, then we can worry about them. Until then, let their local enemies in the ME deal with them. We're fighting their war for them, it's a joke. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Turkey has one of the world's largest standing armies and has a border with Syria. It could squash ISIS like a grape if it chose. Instead it looks the other way as ISIS fighters cross its border and oil is traded across its border. The entire war on ISIS is a huge exercise in hypocrisy. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
waldo Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/19/canada-not-invited-to-paris-meeting-to-discuss-islamic-state-fight.html After decades of honourable military service, Sajjan is been castrated by his own party and PM. British Defence Secretary Michael Fallon says Canada 'absolutely not' snubbed at ISIS meeting Quote
Rue Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Waldo those are not token bombs they actually go kaboom. Quote
Rue Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Bottom line is this. Trudeau is style not substance. Going to Davos is a joke. He will go to a useless meeting to talk to rock stars where nothing is done but photo posing rather than engage in real unsexy politics. His naïve childish photo op approach to life is coming to a crashing collapse. The cold cruel reality of war, economic turmoil, etc., will slap him down soon enough. In the meantime his wife can sing her songs. Lord thundrin geezuz her last song sounded like a dog in heat. That's what we have for now. The fact Trudeau could find time to go to a Mosque that was desecrated in Peterborough and not speak with the families of the 7 dead in Burkina Faso speaks for itself. His secretary to the Foreign Minister Omar Aleghbra or however you spell it is openly pro Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, anything extremist, anti Israel, anti US and he has openly defended terrorists as misunderstood freedom fighters and is Trudeau's adviser on the Middle East. He seemed quite happy they were snubbed. Trudeau is being led by his nose by some very bad people using his naivite. His brother you never hear from Sasha, is very pro Iran's government. He was paid to do a propaganda film for them. Get used to more of this Pollyanna foreign policy. Harper long before the present coalition was formed was the only NATO leader to challeng both Cameron and Obama on their approach to the Middle East and getting into bed with the Muslim Brotherhood and allying with Muslm extremism against other Muslim extremism. The world then caught up with him. Justin lives is in la la land where if you smile and giggle and have your wife sing a song all will be well and terrorists will understand you will help them understand the root causes of their malcontent. Naïve, sheltered rich boy privileged silver spoon politics. Can we get real. Providing training on the ground instead of air cover means what? It means Trudeau et al feel guilty if a bomb kills an innocent person but go into convenient denial as to what his trainers are doing?. What crap. The Kurds our soldiers will train what does he thing they will be doing, kissing and hugging people? Grow up. You can't sanitize your war participation and make it guilt free. In fact the F18's were under such strict limitations please have the bleeding hearts on this forum provide me the accidental deaths from the F18 missions and tell me how they know they exist and how they are a longer list then civilians who have died because of ground war. What two faced crap to assuage the guilt of a bunch of sheltered fools. While you are at it, explain to me with ISIL now openly admitting to 3,500 sex slaves from the Yazidis alone,-please tell me why ISIl should not be bombed if it can help release those women. Cockroaches. Yah I know, cockroaches are misunderstood. If we only understood the root causes of Cockroach activities we can work with them not against them. Next after that lice, then bed bugs. There's no limit to what we can do. Hey let's sing along. Not only does Sophie sing but I do, get this...whoop a whoop ...whoop a woop (at this moment I place my hand on my heart) whop a whoop coachroaches are cute I love them so....whoop a whoop. Man you should hear me sing its like a mix of Celine and Sarah in 1. Trudeau is gonna bring Sophie along to the next NATO meeting. Speaking of NATO someone explain to the poster who says Russia was not invited that Russia is not in NATO and the nations who met are all in NATO or like Australia in a military alliance with NATO while Russia is in a state of open hostility with NATO over many places in the world including fello NATO member Turkey and Russia's not being invited is not the equivalent as a fellow NATO ally being snubbed. Whoop a whoop. Edited January 21, 2016 by Rue Quote
Smallc Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Bottom line is this. Trudeau is style not substance. Going to Davos is a joke. That explains why Harper went to Davos more than once then. Quote
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 I am so excited that our Dear Leader is in Davos. Bono, Spacey and Decaprio really need to hear Trudeau firsthand with the clever wordplay on resources and resourcefulness. That is some quality economic management, yessir. Now that they know that Trudeau is an entirely different person than Harper, things are going to change! Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
waldo Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 That explains why Harper went to Davos more than once then. and ya MLW member 'Rue'... Laureen Harper never traveled to Davos with hubby either... in fact she never went on any international trips, evah! Quote
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Bottom line is this. Trudeau is style not substance. ...and you preferred Harper who had neither style nor substance. Got it. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I am so excited that our Dear Leader is in Davos. Bono, Spacey and Decaprio really need to hear Trudeau firsthand with the clever wordplay on resources and resourcefulness. Yes, because those are the only people there. Apparently, Harper more than once wasted our time and money by going there. Edited January 21, 2016 by Smallc Quote
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 British Defence Secretary Michael Fallon says Canada 'absolutely not' snubbed at ISIS meeting Chronic and Devoted Official Liberal Mouthpiece The Toronto Star confirms that yes, Canada was snubbed but not only do we embrace the snub, it does not matter because this is 2016.. Meanwhile the CBC, part of the the 'Our Feelings Are Not Hurt' government counteroffensive against Ashton Carter, is mightily confused. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/21/canadas-exclusion-from-isis-war-council-a-welcome-snub-walkom.html Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Yes, because those are the only people there. Apparently, Harper more than once wasted our time and money by going there. Could you imagine the uproar if he didn't attend? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Yes, because those are the only people there. Apparently, Harper more than once wasted our time and money by going there. It was wonderful that Trudeau met with the Shell CEO, just minutes before pointing out that Canada is not interested in the resource sector, something that comes as no surprise to observant Canadians. I've once again enjoyed the intense CBC TV coverage of Trudeau in Davos. I'm surprised they need so many CDN media people to cover Trudeau there. While closing and shuttering local/regional news capacity, the CBC apparently has unlimited money to cover Mr Trudeau dining with Bono etc in faraway lands. . Apparently he is an international megastar now, where is TMZ and the world press? I am so glad he can help the world. Maybe someday he journey to Calgary to offer advice and guidance. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
eyeball Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Canada Shunned by Coalition AlliesI sure wish this read the other way but it's just to bad Trudeau is such a warpig. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Smallc Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 It was wonderful that Trudeau met with the Shell CEO, just minutes before pointing out that Canada is not interested in the resource sector, something that comes as no surprise to observant Canadians. There's no reason to be dishonest about what he said. Quote
waldo Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 Chronic and Devoted in your revisionism I'm particularly taken with you labeling the UK as a "junior coalition" partner! Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.