Canada Shunned by Coalition Allies

[cannuck]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/19/canada-not-invited-to-paris-meeting-to-discuss-islamic-state-fight.html

After decades of honourable military service, Sajjan is been castrated by his own party and PM. So sad to see such an important and dedicated guy reduced to having some snivelling politico try to spin this disaster with "we will still be at the NATO meeting on Feb 11". DUH!!!!! We are NATO members (at least for now).

I was embarrassed when we elected such a lightweight as PM, but I am deeply ashamed now.

[PIK]

I can believe it. Trudeau was upfront about not sticking by our allies in this important fight. So why should we be involved in any discussions on the world stage. Now people are really going to find out how much respect the world does not have for our sunny ways policies. And before anyone tries to say that we not being on the security council, is worse , don't bother. Harper made that decision over the fact of the dictators involved, this is a outright snub.

[waldo]

After decades of honourable military service, Sajjan is been castrated by his own party and PM.

how is being named Defense Minister... castration?

[Topaz]

Canada wasn't the only one not asked Russia has done more in their bombing against ISIS than NATO. I don't think most Canadians really care about this, and the Defence Minister, seems to hold his own and we can't always please everyone, can we?

[waldo]

Trudeau was upfront about not sticking by our allies in this important fight.

if a pledge to stop 'token' participation in direct bombing is your measure of 'not sticking', invitee country Germany isn't bombing. What else could it be - please advise.

[Argus]

Canada wasn't the only one not asked Russia has done more in their bombing against ISIS than NATO. I don't think most Canadians really care about this, and the Defence Minister, seems to hold his own and we can't always please everyone, can we?

Russia is not an Allie, and has not really been bombing ISIS so much as other groups which were supported by NATO countries.

[DogOnPorch]

Germany is invited. Not Canada, though.

Kicked to the curb.

[Argus]

if a pledge to stop 'token' participation in direct bombing is your measure of 'not sticking', invitee country Germany isn't bombing. What else could it be - please advise.

Attitude.

Canada's attitude now is to turn its nose into the air and sneer at those taking part in 'war like' activities. Canada knows that sunny ways and blankets are the only way a civilized country responds to genocide, and thinks those other guys are just so déclassée!. Needless to say, those other guys don't think much of this attitude.

Hey, wasn't Sunny Ways supposed to include mending all fences with the US and make us the US's BFF? What happened to that promise?

[waldo]

Attitude.

Canada's attitude now is to turn its nose into the air and sneer at those taking part in 'war like' activities. Canada knows that sunny ways and blankets are the only way a civilized country responds to genocide, and thinks those other guys are just so déclassée!. Needless to say, those other guys don't think much of this attitude.

so... to you... pledging to stop direct participation in bombing... token participation... is 'nose turning'? But pledging to continue air support in regards to transport, reconnaissance and refueling... pledging to increase training support, humanitarian support... that is your described "sunny ways & blankets"? That is the measure of your described "nose turning attitude"?

[DogOnPorch]

so... to you... pledging to stop direct participation in bombing... token participation... is 'nose turning'? But pledging to continue air support in regards to transport, reconnaissance and refueling... pledging to increase training support, humanitarian support... that is your described "sunny ways & blankets"? That is the measure of your described "nose turning attitude"?

To the other countries involved...yes. Token only to you, apparently.

[waldo]

To the other countries involved...yes. Token only to you, apparently.

no, token - limited participation in direct bombing relative to the overall. But hey now, to you, is pledging to continue air support in regards to transport, reconnaissance and refueling... pledging to increase training support, humanitarian support... is that token, to you? Or, per your self-serving interpretation, "token to the other countries involved"? Cause if token, token, token, perhaps we should pull out all together, hey?

[DogOnPorch]

no, token - limited participation in direct bombing relative to the overall. But hey now, to you, is pledging to continue air support in regards to transport, reconnaissance and refueling... pledging to increase training support, humanitarian support... is that token, to you? Or, per your self-serving interpretation, "token to the other countries involved"? Cause if token, token, token, perhaps we should pull out all together, hey?

The results of Trudeau's actions are evident. Blame me all you wish.

[waldo]

The results of Trudeau's actions are evident. Blame me all you wish.

notwithstanding there's no reason for your described "blame", it's not all about you... I'm not blaming you for anything. What I did do was reply to you with, apparently, a most inconvenient question, one you prefer not to touch/answer!

[DogOnPorch]

notwithstanding there's no reason for your described "blame", it's not all about you... I'm not blaming you for anything. What I did do was reply to you with, apparently, a most inconvenient question, one you prefer not to touch/answer!

You're free to believe being shunned by our allies is a good thing. Spin it anyway you wish.

[waldo]

You're free to believe being shunned by our allies is a good thing. Spin it anyway you wish.

I'm not spinning anything. Since it clearly means so much to you, why do you continue to ignore... refuse to answer... the question I asked of you. Here, try again: to you, is pledging to continue air support in regards to transport, reconnaissance and refueling... pledging to increase training support, humanitarian support... is that token, to you?

I will not hesitate to engage and challenge current and prospective members of the coalition to do more as we go forward

now, if direct active combat is your measure of being "meeting embraced", don't you feel so used when the U.S. so openly attempts to manipulate and coerce other countries to help clean up it's mess?

.

[DogOnPorch]

We weren't invited. Spin away.

[Smallc]

For everyone complaining about us stopping our bombing - when did that happen? And when did Gwrmany start bombing? Is your complaint, perhaps, nonsensical?

[DogOnPorch]

For everyone complaining about us stopping our bombing - when did that happen? And when did Gwrmany start bombing? Is your complaint, perhaps, nonsensical?

Not 'my complaint'. We weren't invited. One can pretend it is anything they like...we still aren't at the table.

[waldo]

...we still aren't at the table.

why not? Given your repeated expressed concern, surely you can speak to "why not"?

Edited January 19, 2016 by waldo

[Smallc]

Not 'my complaint'. We weren't invited.

Curiously, I find myself not caring in the slightest about that. The reality is the MND and Trudeau have been very responsible. The could have pulled out CF-18s right away. After all, they promised to and won with that promise in mind. They haven't done that, and have unstead left them, to ensure that there is no gap in capability.

[Smallc]

Of course, the meeting could be about replacing Canada's capability....

[DogOnPorch]

Of course, the meeting could be about replacing Canada's capability....

No doubt.

It's all good. I hear Iran needs a friend as certain posters here at MLW have suggested.

[segnosaur]

For everyone complaining about us stopping our bombing - when did that happen? And when did Gwrmany start bombing? Is your complaint, perhaps, nonsensical?

Canada hasn't stopped bombing yet, but we have indicated our plans to withdraw and will likely do so around March (when our initial commitment would end). So even if we continue flying bombing runs until then, it makes sense that we wouldn't have much to contribute with regards to long term planning.

Germany doesn't do bombing (I believe their constitution forbids it). However they supposedly have:

- Multiple Tornados for air-to-ground reconnisaince

- Air refueling craft

- A warship to protect the French air craft carrier

- Possible deployment of ~1200 military personnel

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12032948/Germany-joins-fight-against-Isil-after-parliament-approves-military-action-in-Syria.html

Canada will continue running refueling missions and may send more soldiers to train rebels, but even with those commitments, Germany's commitment will exceed that of Canada.

[Shady]

I was afraid of Justin's go it alone attitude when it came to the coalition. We're now looked on by the rest of our allies in a negative light.

[Big Guy]

Great! So these guys who got the West involved in this Middle East civil war are now trying to get together to figure out how to get out and do not require Canadian advice and involvement. Thank you very much.

I hope that we take this golden opportunity to take all our troops out and ask them to give us a call if and when they have a cohesive and rational plan. This conflict has become a fiasco where nobody knows who is really supporting which side with major countries fighting proxy wars while destroying this region.

We should never have gotten involved in the first place and this may be the opportunity to pull out completely.

JT - Do not lose your courage now. Stand up to those aggressive nations who are now looking for international cover for their mistakes. Get those airplanes back here to-day and the rest of our troops ASAP.