waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Ah, that's only made possible by a superior ability to read. it is as superior as your purposeful partial selection of what I actually stated? Quote
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 yes, your adamance is noted! Bully for you. The only thing you can directly point to that has changed between Harper and Trudeau are pledges to stop bombing participation and to increase training support/commitments. In the face of 2 prominent countries (Italy and Germany) also not participating in the U.S. led bombing campaign... what else do you have? There is nothing else! That's the point...and it has been made. It's so obvious that I don't know how this thread ever reached 19 pages. It's clear that we're being marginalized (at best) and you guys are foolishly playing the old elementary school "we didn't want to be in your club anyway" routine. Save your pride man! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 There is nothing else! That's the point...and it has been made. It's so obvious that I don't know how this thread ever reached 19 pages. It's clear that we're being marginalized (at best) and you guys are foolishly playing the old elementary school "we didn't want to be in your club anyway" routine. Save your pride man! as I said, I personally could give a rats-patooey on that meeting invite... my only point in playing this out is to showcase the/your uber-partisanship and outright ignoring of the fact that Canada's bombing participation rate/level is symbolic... is token to the overall. To highlight that you bombing proponents won't accept that Canada can provide an alternate military engagement without participating directly in the bombing... to highlight that other countries are speaking positively in regards to that increased training support pledge. And again, to highlight your purposeful avoiding the fact that other meeting invites don't participate directly in the U.S. led bombing campaign... what you now have just declared as "there is nothing else"! Quote
Big Guy Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 There is nothing else! That's the point...and it has been made. It's so obvious that I don't know how this thread ever reached 19 pages. It's clear that we're being marginalized (at best) and you guys are foolishly playing the old elementary school "we didn't want to be in your club anyway" routine. Save your pride man! Leadership of a country and politics have nothing to do with pride, shame or complacency - it has to do with leverage that you can use to attain your goals. Our government is supposed to do what is best for us. I guess we could send a few thousand Canadian soldiers on the ground in Syria and Iraq and be "proud" for taking the lead. But what will be the feeling when those soldiers start coming back in body bags as the Saudis and the rest of them laugh at our waste or lives and continue to gain from our sacrifice. I am proud that Canada is starting to develop its own foreign policy based on what is best for Canada. I would be much prouder if all the airplanes and military came back to our soil tomorrow. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 The point of allies is that you have each other's backs. Even if you may be the weaker partner, it's important to have you friends back. We've clearly shown that we don't stand with our friends, and they've clearly got the message. I live by the code that I'll stand by my friends. Win or lose, we'll be in it together. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 The point of allies is that you have each other's backs. Even if you may be the weaker partner, it's important to have you friends back. We've clearly shown that we don't stand with our friends, and they've clearly got the message. I live by the code that I'll stand by my friends. Win or lose, we'll be in it together. So you do whatever they do then, just because? Quote
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 So you do whatever they do then, just because? No, if my friend is in need of help, I don't say "you deserve it", "not my fight", "can't be bothered", or "I can't afford to help you". No, if my friend needs me, I'll give whatever I can and when it comes around, i'll expect (and receive) the same. I feel sorry for you guys who don't have that. You guys are like those people who see an assault and turn your head because...well, it's not your problem. Not me! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 No, if my friend is in need of help, I don't say "you deserve it", "not my fight", "can't be bothered", or "I can't afford to help you". No, if my friend needs me, I'll give whatever I can and when it comes around, i'll expect (and receive) the same. I feel sorry for you guys who don't have that. You guys are like those people who see an assault and turn your head because...well, it's not your problem. Not me! What if your friend needs "help" doing the same thing that got them into the bind in the first place? That seems like a rather dumb step towards a never ending vicious circle. Might be smarter to think about a different/smarter strategy. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Regardless of the impact on allied relations, if Canada turns and runs away from ISIS, it will be rejecting the lofty human rights "principles" and R2P ideology it has used in the past to shoot and bomb the bad guys for votes back home. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Regardless of the impact on allied relations, if Canada turns and runs away from ISIS, it will be rejecting the lofty human rights "principles" and R2P ideology it has used in the past to shoot and bomb the bad guys for votes back home. Our allied relations are strong as ever, and we're not turning and running, so rest easy. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Canada's rookie PM has backed himself into a corner...fun to watch: ...And where, exactly, are the equally passionate counter-editorials? The government ministers insisting that this policy makes sense? Crickets. But someone will have to come up with some answers, and fast. Trudeau will soon be back, and so will Parliament. Crickets indeed. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Canada's rookie PM has backed himself into a corner...fun to watch: ...And where, exactly, are the equally passionate counter-editorials? The government ministers insisting that this policy makes sense? Crickets. But someone will have to come up with some answers, and fast. Trudeau will soon be back, and so will Parliament. Crickets indeed. That's correct, parliament will soon resume sitting and hey, with Harper gone there may actually be an "answer" component to Question Period. Quote
Big Guy Posted January 24, 2016 Report Posted January 24, 2016 The point of allies is that you have each other's backs. Even if you may be the weaker partner, it's important to have you friends back. We've clearly shown that we don't stand with our friends, and they've clearly got the message. I live by the code that I'll stand by my friends. Win or lose, we'll be in it together. Countries who are "allies" are not friends, they are associations for common good. When the common good changes then "alliances" change. For an example, From 1939–1945 the Allies were – United States, United Kingdom and the Commonwealth, Soviet Union, Republic of China, Poland, France, Yugoslavia. You must admit that these allies have split up. To get a better idea of how alliances change I suggest you try: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances The only real responsibility for any government is to do what is best for their country - not some other "ally". You stand with your friends, I'll stand with those who will do the best for us. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Hal 9000 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Posted January 24, 2016 Countries who are "allies" are not friends, they are associations for common good. When the common good changes then "alliances" change. For an example, From 1939–1945 the Allies were – United States, United Kingdom and the Commonwealth, Soviet Union, Republic of China, Poland, France, Yugoslavia. You must admit that these allies have split up. To get a better idea of how alliances change I suggest you try: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances The only real responsibility for any government is to do what is best for their country - not some other "ally". You stand with your friends, I'll stand with those who will do the best for us. So, you're equating our friends in USA and UK with Russia and China? Sorry, just because we had to align with some countries to defeat Germany does not put them in the same category as UK and USA. You people amaze me sometimes! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Big Guy Posted January 24, 2016 Report Posted January 24, 2016 So, you're equating our friends in USA and UK with Russia and China? Sorry, just because we had to align with some countries to defeat Germany does not put them in the same category as UK and USA. You people amaze me sometimes! You appear to view international politics, alliances, trade alliances, military alliances etc as "good people" befriending other "good people" against those "bad guys". It may simplify decisions of who or what you should support but is certainly not an accurate method of assessing how governments operate. Each government makes alliances with others for self preservation. When power conditions change then alliances change. Do you think that Putin is a "bad guy" or that those 145 million Russians are bad people? Did you think that Iraq was a "bad" nation but it was Saddam who was a bad guy and the other 33 million people are good guys - because we are now fighting along side with them in the Middle East. What about Iran? Is it the secular government who are the bad guys or the spiritual leaders who are the bad guys? Perhaps it is the 80 million Iranians who are the bad guys" BTW Did you know that 70% of the population is under 35 years old and the major reason being the 8 year Iran, Iraq war. In 1980, Iraq, financed by the USA, encouraged by the USA and armed by the USA attacked Iran. For 8 years they fought with one million - yes, 1,000,000 Iranians killed, many by sarin gas. How do you think the USA knew about that gas? If I lived in a country where the USA backed, supported and encouraged another country to kill one million of my fellow countymen (grandfathers, fathers, brothers etc) then I too might be a little pi$$ed at them. Many still shout their "death to USA" in relation to those previous policies - I do not blame them. So as to 2016, who do you consider to be the friends and allies of Canada? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Hal 9000 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Posted January 25, 2016 You appear to view international politics, alliances, trade alliances, military alliances etc as "good people" befriending other "good people" against those "bad guys". It may simplify decisions of who or what you should support but is certainly not an accurate method of assessing how governments operate. Each government makes alliances with others for self preservation. When power conditions change then alliances change. Do you think that Putin is a "bad guy" or that those 145 million Russians are bad people? Did you think that Iraq was a "bad" nation but it was Saddam who was a bad guy and the other 33 million people are good guys - because we are now fighting along side with them in the Middle East. What about Iran? Is it the secular government who are the bad guys or the spiritual leaders who are the bad guys? Perhaps it is the 80 million Iranians who are the bad guys" BTW Did you know that 70% of the population is under 35 years old and the major reason being the 8 year Iran, Iraq war. In 1980, Iraq, financed by the USA, encouraged by the USA and armed by the USA attacked Iran. For 8 years they fought with one million - yes, 1,000,000 Iranians killed, many by sarin gas. How do you think the USA knew about that gas? If I lived in a country where the USA backed, supported and encouraged another country to kill one million of my fellow countymen (grandfathers, fathers, brothers etc) then I too might be a little pi$$ed at them. Many still shout their "death to USA" in relation to those previous policies - I do not blame them. So as to 2016, who do you consider to be the friends and allies of Canada? I'll admit, I didn't read all your post. But I guess you are still equating the UK with Russia. Clearly I understand and can differentiate between allied countries forced together and allies that we consider friendly countries. The rest of your post, i see words like Iran and sarin gas and think...WFT are you talking about? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Big Guy Posted January 25, 2016 Report Posted January 25, 2016 I'll admit, I didn't read all your post. ...WFT are you talking about? Thank you for being candid. Now I understand how you process information to formulate your views. Sorry I bothered to comment earlier. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Hal 9000 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Posted January 25, 2016 Thank you for being candid. Now I understand how you process information to formulate your views. Sorry I bothered to comment earlier. Certain things are obvious no matter how many straw men or red herrings you toss out. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
PIK Posted January 25, 2016 Report Posted January 25, 2016 Trudeau is already getting ripped on P and P, and so early in his career and craig Oliver at that. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
PIK Posted January 26, 2016 Report Posted January 26, 2016 So did our defence minister get caught in a lie? On the news last nite he said the government did not go to the meeting last year either. But the americans said this was a one time meeting between coalition partners and they did not have a meeting last yr. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Keepitsimple Posted January 26, 2016 Report Posted January 26, 2016 So did our defence minister get caught in a lie? On the news last nite he said the government did not go to the meeting last year either. But the americans said this was a one time meeting between coalition partners and they did not have a meeting last yr. Obviously, the Americans are lying! Quote Back to Basics
The_Squid Posted January 26, 2016 Report Posted January 26, 2016 Trudeau is already getting ripped on P and P, and so early in his career and craig Oliver at that. Craig Oliver isn't on P&P. Quote
PIK Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 My mistake, ctv. But he is the biggest cheerleader the liberals aver had . And speaking of P & P what a clown show last nite. McKenna is way over her head and carr came off as arrogant and very condescending. And they to were skipping the questions. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 You stand with your friends, I'll stand with those who will do the best for us. When you stand with your friends you stand with their crimes. No alliance will ever be better than it's basest member. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 A new poll...a new poll! A new poll suggests that majority of Canadians disagree with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's pledge to withdraw Canada's CF-18 fighter jets by the end of March from the U.S.-led bombing mission against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. When asked what Canada's role should be in the fight against ISIS, only 27 per cent told the Angus Reid Institute that they were on the same page as Trudeau in wanting to stop Canada's bombing mission and focus only on training local troops in Iraq and Syria. ...The majority of Canadians disagreed with the prime minister, with 37 per cent saying the Liberal government should continue the current level of bombing and training provided by Canada, while 26 per cent wanted the levels increased. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-fighter-jets-isis-poll-1.3437288 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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