Islamophobia in Canada

[dialamah]

37 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. weirdly, people also blame The Bible for "causing" violence, while the Quran gets a pass

2. when neither cause violence just because some people who hold those books in high regard commit violent acts in their name

3. weirdly, some people blame others for dehumanizing people, while dehumanizing people far more than those they are accusing of dehumanizing others

4. cognitive dissonance is helluva drug

1. Weirdly, that is exactly what MH wasn't doing.   

2. Weirdly, nobody blames what is written in the bible when very religious people take those beliefs to extremes, and refuse their kids medical treatment, marry multiple women, or shun/kill their son for being gay because "that's what the bible says". (yes, Christians in other lands kill gays; it's hard for too many to believe that all Christians aren't as defanged as the western version we're all familiar with).

3.  Word salad.

4.  Yes, it is.

[Goddess]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's because they see Muslims as being unlike other humans.

ALL people, religious or not, are prone to being manipulated by dangerous ideologies.

This is why it's best to stay far away from such dangerous thinking and propaganda - religious, political or whatever.

It seems to me that it is YOU who see Muslims as being unlike other humans - somehow superior, as if they are impervious to their own dangerous/harmful religious beliefs, of which there are many in Islam - and openly practiced in most Islamic countries.

(I was "talked to" once or twice about how I dressed in my fanatical Christian cult - but I was never afraid of being killed for how I dressed, as a woman.  I left that same cult, and while I am shunned - I do not fear anyone killing me for leaving.)

[Army Guy]

Propaganda is a very effective tool, so much so it is used by governments, media advertisements, any one that wants to change the outcome of something, and it is being used all across the globe.

It has come to the point where we don't know what is truth or what is a lie and we are bombarded everyday with it, and we the people soak that shit up with a straw, and believe every word as if it came from god, 

The question now is where is the left and right of arcs on what is considered aiding in this dehumanization process. Because it seems to change everyday, or are people getting to sensitive.  Can me even talk about Islam or for that matter any thing that is in the broad sense, without being label with something.  

Dehumanizing people is human nature, everyone is guilty of doing it, whether it is an individual or group of people, and it is going to take a miracle to stop it. 

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Dehumanizing people is human nature, everyone is guilty of doing it, whether it is an individual or group of people, and it is going to take a miracle to stop it. 

postmodernist cancel culture is just a proxy for exterimination

you've seen it all before, in the Balkans

from time to time someone escalates from cancel culture in virtual on the internet, taking it to the streets

mass shooters, mass killing hit & run drivers, it's just information war cancellation going kinetic

this family were simply casualties of war, not different from being bombed at Guernica

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dougie93

[myata]

A very common and ongoing in history source of trouble is associating problems with groups of people selected by certain factor/label, rather than addressing specific acts by specific people. This does not seem related to particular religion, ethnicity, class and so on something to do with, as already mentioned here, by humans dehumanizing other humans to obtain advantage in survival (possibly a million(s) year old behavior).

There were violent protests in Middle East. And there was violent destruction in Tusla. And storming the US capitol. Violence and dehumanization appears to be universal. Does it help to break into many anti- dehumanizations or best to speak out and bring attention to any instance of dehumanization? This is a question.

[CITIZEN_2015]

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

That would pretty much include everyone, including most existing Canadians... So much for immigration.

Not most of Canadians but many. But we can't do much with the trash that we have already but we must not import even more is my point.

[Dougie93]

I am not anti-dehumanization

I was indoctrinated by the Government of Canada to be a mass murderer for the British Crown

if it was a military necessity, I would do mass murder, and that requires compartmentalization

apex predator male, hunter killing for the tribe is our role

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dougie93

[CITIZEN_2015]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

 

Congratulations. You are, according to MH and others, Islamophobic for suggesting that. 

It doesn't make me Islamophobic but phobic against any religion, ideology or person who lacks respect for women or do not believe in equality of races and lacks respects for other religions. There are many muslims who fall into that category but there are also many non-muslims including pure white Canadian born.

 

[Dougie93]

I would not say that this invidual is insane

what he is likely suffering from is what the French sociologist Emil Durkheim called "Anomie"

it is the desire to destroy oneself by destroying the other

this is why the perpetrator did not make a serious attempt to avoid arrest

he has destroyed his life and the lives of the other, mission acomplished

the Anomie is related to the dislocation of the Information Age, this is the Guerrilla Information World War Three

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

bear in mind that the Second World War did not make a distinction between military & civilian neither

of the 60 million persons killed in the war, 45 million were defenceless civilians

mostly killed by the Germans & Japanese

the Germans & Japanese societies were also suffering from Anomie

it was a suicide mission, they would annihilate the other, and destroy themselves in the process as well

[dialamah]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

what he is likely suffering from is what the French sociologist Emil Durkheim called "Anomie"

Interesting.

[Dougie93]

the thing to understand about 21st century information war as opposed to 20th century industrial war ?

this is what the Pentagon calls 5th generation warfare now

it is adaptive, distributed, dispersed, requires no central command

it is hyper powered individuals and small groups who leverage the vulnerabilities of our overly protected societies

the armies are self organizing, one operative will strike a mosque in New Zealand, then another will strike in Canada

the Islamists use the same concept of operations, launching attacks in Paris or Berlin

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It doesn't make me Islamophobic but phobic against any religion, ideology or person who lacks respect for women or do not believe in equality of races and lacks respects for other religions. 

Congratulations, you have criticized Islam without hate mongering or dehumanizing.  The usual suspects on here seem to think what you did is impossible.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Interesting.

it's actually an essential ingredient to being an infantryman

like if I go over the top to my death for Queen Elizabeth II, in the forlorn hope

that's Anomie

we are going to be defeated, but I go down swinging for the Queen

suicide mission

death cult

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

1. Weirdly, that is exactly what MH wasn't doing.   

 

Actually, it fills me with hope that they're not able to grasp an analogy.  It means they are unable to understand, not wilfully lying.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

many who wear religious garb aren't fundamentalist though

That statement makes no sense. Why would you wear religious garb otherwise? Imagine covering your head and neck, never feeling the breeze or the sunlight..

Jut cuz...

 

[Dougie93]

based on the profile of the perpetrator, I suspect a male dominance hierarchy issue as well

low status male, socially inept, self isolating

no mating female to give his life meaning

this is another driver of Anomie, the breakdown of the social order by the breakdown of the family

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dougie93

[dialamah]

17 hours ago, bcsapper said:

You already know the answer to that last question.  After all this time, I'm surprised you asked it. 

MH talked of

all of you Muslim haters on here DO step up and rationalize the murder of a family.

as though, somehow, we should pretend Islam is just fine in order to prevent something like this from happening. 

Should we?

 

There's a difference between Critics of Islam and "Muslim haters".

Islam is a religion that features male-dominance, homophobia and xenophobia.  Some of its adherents take those precepts to extremes, using them to oppress and kill people who fail to fall into their narrow definition of "Muslim".  Those people are also prone to ignore other parts of Islam, which teach tolerance and speak up against murder.   Muslims are, as a group, generally more conservative than people who've been born or raised in the West.  The majority of them reject the idea that murder is acceptable, or that women are not given respect.  But it's pretty clear that the conservatism of Islam is played out in Islamic society, as women are restricted - sometimes severely - and being gay is not acceptable.  When they move to a less religious country, these conservative beliefs will likely come with them, but studies have demonstrated that over time - two or three generations - they become more mainstream in their beliefs.

vs.

Muslims are fanatics; their religion tells them it's ok to beat women and to kill gays.  If too many come to Canada, they'll take over - all women will have to wear hijab, and gay people won't be safe!  They kill unbelievers - anyone who doesn't convert!  We can't allow such barbaric people, whose belief system is still stuck in the 13th century, to come to Canada; they'll destroy our culture!    Just because they come to Canada, they won't change - because their religion won't let them!

[Argus]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

People who spread hate and fear are responsible for the hate and fear they spread, especially when it leads to nutcases "taking action", as BCSapper said.  Those people need to be called out.

Unless they're Muslim clerics...

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

That statement makes no sense. Why would you wear religious garb otherwise? Imagine covering your head and neck, never feeling the breeze or the sunlight..

Jut cuz...

 

Unless they go out into their private back yard, of course.   Which my neighbor does regularly.  

[Argus]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Congratulations, you have criticized Islam without hate mongering or dehumanizing.  The usual suspects on here seem to think what you did is impossible.

Oh, so now you agree with this? This is okay with you when you were screaming about anyone wanting to interfere with Muslim immigration was a murderer?

As an example I would say as per my posts that those who do not believe in equality of women and respect for women and respect for other religions and equality of races must be barred from immigrating to Canada (

[Michael Hardner]

@dialamah you are doing good work, but the fact is that they believe that Muslims are unlike other humans, which is to say not human.

[dialamah]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

Unless they're Muslim clerics...

Really?  You think so?  If I had my way, Muslim clerics who did that would have consequences, the same ones that white supremacists and Islamaphobes ought to have for the hate/fear they spread.  Why should Muslim clerics get a break??  In my opinion, too much ignorance, hate and fear is allowed to be expressed without any consquence.  The States has "Free Speech" and we have "Freedom of Expression", which means there is a lot of freedom for people to say what they will.  I suppose you can call me a communist, or something, since now I've made it clear that I'd do more speech limiting than our current government does.

Edited June 8, 2021 by dialamah
words

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There's a difference between Critics of Islam and "Muslim haters".

Islam is a religion that features male-dominance, homophobia and xenophobia.  Some of its adherents take those precepts to extremes, using them to oppress and kill people who fail to fall into their narrow definition of "Muslim". 

"Some Muslims". There are 51 Muslim majority countries in the world and not a single one of them treats women as the equals as men. Not a single one gives the same rights to non-Muslims as it does to Muslims. 

Yet you continue to attempt to portray the backward values of the Islamic world as an occasional thing, something rejected by the majority.

 

 

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Actually, it fills me with hope that they're not able to grasp an analogy.  It means they are unable to understand, not wilfully lying.

I suppose that's a point.