Big Guy Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 If torture was an effective means of gathering accurate information then I would have no problem with the process and would expect our enemies to do the same to our people. The problem is that this report states that torture does not provide accurate information. If you do not believe that report then you probably do not believe anything that the CIA has been accused of. Good for you. That is your choice. What bothers me is that here in Canada we decide on and create a foreign policy based on intel we gat from the Americans. That report states that the intel that they give us based on their torture interrogation techniques in inaccurate. Now I begin to understand why we got into that Afghanistan debacle, that useless bombing in Libya and now this ineffective expedition against ISIS in Iraq. We followed the USA lead which was based on faulty and inaccurate torture created intel. Maybe we may eventually smarten up. Maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 It was PIK that contrasted the incompetence of the CIA to the achievements of the Nazi's. As for equating Nazi's to the CIA...in defence of the Nazi's they can't be accused of knowing better than to behave like monsters, not like Americans who should in fact know far far better. What made me reflect about not being able to see monsters was your defending of Nazis and the nonsensical thoughts on the CIA. You have no ability to judge it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 That was kind of weird wasn't it? I would say so. It seems it's wrong to let women have domain over the body's, but it's OK to torture people to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 What made me reflect about not being able to see monsters was your defending of Nazis and the nonsensical thoughts on the CIA. You have no ability to judge it seems. Is that an answer? I don't recall asking a question. Whatever it was I would have been surprised if it hadn't seemed that way to you, I figured I had you judged pretty accurately a while ago. It seems I was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I would say so. It seems it's wrong to let women have domain over the body's, but it's OK to torture people to death. These people just suck at trying to sound moral and ethical, you can count on them to cock it up just about every time they open their mouths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 These people just suck at trying to sound moral and ethical, you can count on them to cock it up just about every time they open their mouths. Which is why I guess you often see someone post "don't feed the troll" which is understandable and probably a good idea. But sometimes it's fun to play the baiting game and tweak the right wing ignorance a bit. It can be fun. It seems they take the bait quite often. Although it really is a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well, you got yer baited hooks and then you got yer bottom trawl - you can catch em one at a time or a whole bunch all at once. The trick is making sure the foot-rope doesn't dig into the bottom because you'll just end up getting more by-catch than anything. In any case I haven't seen anything worth setting back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Is that an answer? I don't recall asking a question. Whatever it was I would have been surprised if it hadn't seemed that way to you, I figured I had you judged pretty accurately a while ago. It seems I was right. No, I wasn't answering you. It occurred to me that to some readers, my earlier post might be incomplete, so I thought I'd flesh it out a bit more. At any rate, it has been to my regret that I've rubbed shoulders with some of the hard left activist types on this forum. I've finally decided that there is no understanding you, nor do I want to anymore. I just want to step out of your paths any time I see you coming so as to avoid hearing the nonsense that comes out of your mouths. At the same time I feel sorry for these lost confused ranters, there can be no peace when the brain is so out of touch and conflicted. But on the whole, knowing what I do now, it seems there is little value in trying to share thoughts and ideas on forums like this. Consider this: if you really knew what the person was like, and not the poser hiding themselves except for what they want you to see on these forums, I think even you would be surprised at the people you've been trusting your time/ideas/mind with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) No, I wasn't answering you. It occurred to me that to some readers, my earlier post might be incomplete, so I thought I'd flesh it out a bit more. At any rate, it has been to my regret that I've rubbed shoulders with some of the hard left activist types on this forum. I've finally decided that there is no understanding you, nor do I want to anymore. I just want to step out of your paths any time I see you coming so as to avoid hearing the nonsense that comes out of your mouths. At the same time I feel sorry for these lost confused ranters, there can be no peace when the brain is so out of touch and conflicted. But on the whole, knowing what I do now, it seems there is little value in trying to share thoughts and ideas on forums like this. I know exactly how you feel. I'm convinced North America is heading for a civil war over right-wing vs left-wing values - which will make it a particularly ugly and brutal war. I'm not convinced there isn't value in butting heads here though, I'm glad for the insights and glimpses I get into the minds of you guys because they help me to understand my enemy. You remind me of Cheltham when Wallace got in his face. Consider this: if you really knew what the person was like, and not the poser hiding themselves except for what they want you to see on these forums, I think even you would be surprised at the people you've been trusting your time/ideas/mind with. You make that sound like a threat. Maybe after the next galvanizing event your side will be given the green light to start rounding people like me up. Heck maybe even after the next budget if you're lucky. Edited December 10, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I sincerely hope you're not expecting to get rounded up. But that's what i mean, and not just you. The out-of-left-field ideas or hard line opinions that have no basis in reality and get shared as fact on this forum daily. I can tell that some here are not what they present as "the real me", and others have more than one identity apparently. I really hope that the typical Canadian is not strident, rude, belligerent and belittling like the assholes on this forum. I don't want to spend time with people like that. Ugh. There are so many crusaders on this forum. Crusading for the environment or right wing or left wing or Israel or Palestine or any other hot button issue. I keep wondering where all the normal people are that I went to school with. Like I accidentally opened the door into the extremist room, oops, I wanted the normal people room. Do they even exist anymore? Just about everybody in this forum is pissed off about something. Is this really the way people are when there's nothing restraining us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I heard a young Canadian conservative commentator on a CBC news panel last night call for legislation banning inflammatory rhetoric. Today I saw Harper call action on climate change crazy. Yes, I fully expect the day is coming when death squads will be the norm, first in the US and then here and probably sooner than we imagine. I sincerely hope you're not expecting to get rounded up. No. I expect I'll fight to the death and take as many of the bastards with me as I can. Edited December 10, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 There are so many crusaders on this forum. Crusading for the environment or right wing or left wing or Israel or Palestine or any other hot button issue. I keep wondering where all the normal people are that I went to school with. Like I accidentally opened the door into the extremist room, oops, I wanted the normal people room. Do they even exist anymore? Just about everybody in this forum is pissed off about something. Is this really the way people are when there's nothing restraining us? No. Most "normal" people don't spend their leisure time posting online in a political forum. What you see here is not representative of the general population. That should be obvious, given that this forum has a few dozen active members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's pretty representative of other forums and comments sections you see scattered around the net. And then there's our politicians, I don't know who's taking their cue from who these days but their capacity to resolve issues seems even less unbiased or civil than what you see in here. The language is slightly better but not the tone, not by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I heard a young Canadian conservative commentator on a CBC news panel last night call for legislation banning inflammatory rhetoric. Today I saw Harper call action on climate change crazy. Yes, I fully expect the day is coming when death squads will be the norm, first in the US and then here and probably sooner than we imagine. No. I expect I'll fight to the death and take as many of the bastards with me as I can. They killed prisoners held without due process in Guantanamo Bay. Those who didn't die were brutally tortured. American cops discharge their firearms and kill suspects (you'll note that the blunt thinkers on the forum call them perps, but I hardly see how a guy reaching for his license or a 12 year old with a toy is a perp) orders of magnitude more than just about any other police force in the world. When people do go through the justice system, the state is sanctioned to murder them with death sentencing. The US justice system is completely broken and it goes right from the very top down to the beat cops at the bottom and includes prosecutors and everyone else between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/cia-reports-shocking-passages/CNN reports on the most 'shocking passages' of the report, yet doesn't mention this ? In November 2002, a suspected Afghan militant, Gul Rahman, died of hypothermia inside a CIA black site north of Kabul known as the Salt Pit. Rahman had been left in a cold cell, stripped from the waist down and had been doused in water, according to reports from the Associated Press. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-methods-waterboarding-sleep-deprivation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) It's pathetic, one instance cited was to "threaten" with a drill. If a terrorist group blew up some sky scrapers in Toronto or Vancouver, and I had the 2nd in command of the terrorist group who did it, I'd torture him as long as it took to get accurate information to catch the guilty and save lives from other attacks. Such a tough guy! Would you do the butt stuff yourself, or would you delegate? What's wrong in our country is we no longer can recognize a monster when we see one. Oh but we can: At any rate, it has been to my regret that I've rubbed shoulders with some of the hard left activist types on this forum. I've finally decided that there is no understanding you, nor do I want to anymore. I just want to step out of your paths any time I see you coming so as to avoid hearing the nonsense that comes out of your mouths. At the same time I feel sorry for these lost confused ranters, there can be no peace when the brain is so out of touch and conflicted. But on the whole, knowing what I do now, it seems there is little value in trying to share thoughts and ideas on forums like this. Feel free to take a hike then. There are so many crusaders on this forum. Crusading for the environment or right wing or left wing or Israel or Palestine or any other hot button issue. *comes to a political forum, is shocked by the presence of politics* I keep wondering where all the normal people are that I went to school with. Like I accidentally opened the door into the extremist room, oops, I wanted the normal people room. Do they even exist anymore? Just about everybody in this forum is pissed off about something. Is this really the way people are when there's nothing restraining us? First time on the internet? Anyway, anyone want to talk about the torture report? Interesting to me is how specific most of the bad allegations are (and are coming from CIA documents), while the criticisms are the blandest, broadest possible ("it's partisan!" "it's bad timing!") Edited December 10, 2014 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well said John McCain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 John McCain lost a presidential election...Bush was re-elected to serve a second term and continue the "war on terrorism". So he did..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 John McCain lost a presidential election...Bush was re-elected to serve a second term and continue the "war on terrorism". So he did..... Exactly. And Obama's continued much of it. Even going further than interrogations. He now just kills people with drones. I guess killing somebody is better than depriving them of sleep and stuff. Oh, and nevermind the innocent people that get killed in the process of the drone bombings. That's ok too, and much better than somebody being sleep deprived etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Exactly. And Obama's continued much of it. Even going further than interrogations. He now just kills people with drones. I guess killing somebody is better than depriving them of sleep and stuff. Oh, and nevermind the innocent people that get killed in the process of the drone bombings. That's ok too, and much better than somebody being sleep deprived etc. If you're trying to suggest some level of hypocrisy on the part of people deploring the CIA's actions, you might want to take a look at your own selective outrage on all things Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 If you're trying to suggest some level of hypocrisy on the part of people deploring the CIA's actions, you might want to take a look at your own selective outrage on all things Obama. Or your lack of outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Or your lack of outrage. Saving my outrage for important things like when Obama salutes a marine with a coffee cup in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Exactly. And Obama's continued much of it. Even going further than interrogations. He now just kills people with drones. I guess killing somebody is better than depriving them of sleep and stuff. Oh, and nevermind the innocent people that get killed in the process of the drone bombings. That's ok too, and much better than somebody being sleep deprived etc. Agreed...this is all just politics. Obama amped things up big time, including the "cold blooded murder" of Osama Bin 'Hidin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Saving my outrage for important things like when Obama salutes a marine with a coffee cup in hand. Not every criticism of your hero is outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Exactly. And Obama's continued much of it. Even going further than interrogations. He now just kills people with drones. I guess killing somebody is better than depriving them of sleep and stuff. Oh, and nevermind the innocent people that get killed in the process of the drone bombings. That's ok too, and much better than somebody being sleep deprived etc.I agree. The drone program is terrible and unforgivable and will forever change the good name of the U.S. It's nice to see you coming around. Somehow I think, however, if it were a Republican president, you would be completely defending it. You never fail to inadvertently expose your own hypocrisy when you try to find it in others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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