eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 Feeling a little bittersweet? Oh, well it must still cheer you to know the only person who will ever pay a criminal penalty for any of this is the whistle-blower who ratted out the CIA. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Maher Arar was tortured in Syria and what did that produce? Not a whole lot other than it cost Canadian taxpayers 10 million in damages. We should have sent the bill to Bush. Quote
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 No, we deserve a shiner too. I suspect this report will bolster Omar Khadr's case. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Consider a phrase we hear used a lot; "rape, torture and murder". There's a reason why torture is so closely associated with rape and murder, because its amongst the most vicious and grievous crimes that human beings can commit. It's also a criminal act to not being perps to justice. Edited December 9, 2014 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Feeling a little bittersweet? Oh, well it must still cheer you to know the only person who will ever pay a criminal penalty for any of this is the whistle-blower who ratted out the CIA. It doesn't bother me either way, as I don't lose any sleep worrying about what happens to terrorists or traitors. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Consider a phrase we hear used a lot; "rape, torture and murder". There's a reason why torture is so closely associated with rape and murder, because its amongst the most vicious and grievous crimes that human beings can commit. Debatable.....all three of those crimes can only get you a few years + probation in Canada, depending on the circumstances. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 So you disagree with the sentiment this report shows the US is big enough to recognize it's mistakes and move beyond them. I don't buy that crap either. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 I'm sure we are about to the good old "deny, deny, deny" concept taken to a whole new height. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 So you disagree with the sentiment this report shows the US is big enough to recognize it's mistakes and move beyond them. Of course...the U.S. was doing the same thing in Vietnam with "Tiger cages". Canada helped send Arar to Syria, remember ? Plus it doesn't make any sense....why would one refrain from "enhanced interrogation techniques" while being perfectly willing to bomb the crap out of the same asset, his home and family. It's like abortion lovers bemoaning capital punishment ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 True, but you do need to have a legal framework i.e. a justice system and trial etc etc so those circumstances can be weighed and judged. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 True, but you do need to have a legal framework i.e. a justice system and trial etc etc so those circumstances can be weighed and judged. Right, but they are not as grievous as you make them out to be compared to some other crimes and sentences. Torture happens...in many forms. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Now that's gotta be one of the most bizarre comparisons I've heard in a while. Quote
Shady Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 This senate report should be taken as a piece of political partisan propaganda, and nothing more. Democrats wrote the report, and are only releasing it now because their majority ceases to exist in another month. Therefore, silenced voices would no longer be silenced. History is being re-written by this report. It's value is only that of the ink and paper it's printed on. Nothing more. Quote
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 Of course...the U.S. was doing the same thing in Vietnam with "Tiger cages". Canada helped send Arar to Syria, remember ? Plus it doesn't make any sense....why would one refrain from "enhanced interrogation techniques" while being perfectly willing to bomb the crap out of the same asset, his home and family. Exactly. Why can't our governments adopt the same pagan tone and simply embrace the horror? We're never going to win with a moral arm tied behind our back, we should just amputate the damn thing. I notice some people lately have been calling for the criminalization of rhetoric that radicalizes people, surely that should include the sort of sappy sentiment that leads to people wanting to hold our governments to some sort of moral standard. Better if we didn't have any don't you think if all they do is sow division at home or give our enemies something to point at when whistle-blowers bring any contradictions to light? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 Now that's gotta be one of the most bizarre comparisons I've heard in a while. That was kind of weird wasn't it? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Exactly. Why can't our governments adopt the same pagan tone and simply embrace the horror? We're never going to win with a moral arm tied behind our back, we should just amputate the damn thing. Don't have to....forgiveness is easier to get than permission. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 Right, but they are not as grievous as you make them out to be compared to some other crimes and sentences. Torture happens...in many forms. You've run that by the ICC or is it just your own opinion? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 Don't have to....forgiveness is easier to get than permission. Permission from who? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 You've run that by the ICC or is it just your own opinion? Criminal Code of Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Permission from who? The moral navel-gazers. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) The CIA was emulating the Nazi's methods and they still cocked it up? The report talked about 39 cases, which hardly makes this widespread to begin with. And while waterboarding is certainly unpleasant equating it with the Nazis use of skinning and burning people alive and cutting off hands and feet, one finger and toe at a time, is more than a little ridiculous. Edited December 10, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Posted December 10, 2014 It was PIK that contrasted the incompetence of the CIA to the achievements of the Nazi's. As for equating Nazi's to the CIA...in defence of the Nazi's they can't be accused of knowing better than to behave like monsters, not like Americans who should in fact know far far better. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
WWWTT Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 This is a complete non-story regarding information that's already known. 3 people were water boarded like 10 years ago, a few times. Yawn. Big news in China the #1 economy! It's all over CCTV4. Story about the #2 economy is going to be a big yawn in the wanna be #15 economy., you're right about that! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
sharkman Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) The report talked about 39 cases, which hardly makes this widespread to begin with. And while waterboarding is certainly unpleasant equating it with the Nazis use of skinning and burning people alive and cutting off hands and feet, one finger and toe at a time, is more than a little ridiculous. It's pathetic, one instance cited was to "threaten" with a drill. If a terrorist group blew up some sky scrapers in Toronto or Vancouver, and I had the 2nd in command of the terrorist group who did it, I'd torture him as long as it took to get accurate information to catch the guilty and save lives from other attacks. What's wrong in our country is we no longer can recognize a monster when we see one. Edited December 10, 2014 by sharkman Quote
eyeball Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) What's wrong in our country is we no longer can recognize a monster when we see one. Yep. Not everyone has that blind spot, and that's the problem you guys can't seem to come to terms with. You know, the moral navel gazers. Edited December 10, 2014 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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