This week in Islam

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-claims-ohio-state-university-9360435

 

Here's the latest murder in the name of Islam. 

The Somali immigrant student was apparently inspired by the call for jihad.  Knife or machete,  was the favored choice of weapon.

 

 

To be fair, I don't think anyone was killed.  Except the attacker, who doesn't matter.

[betsy]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

To be fair, I don't think anyone was killed.  Except the attacker, who doesn't matter.

Oh yes, you're right.  Luckily, no one got killed except for the jihadist. 

[drummindiver]

This gentleman tells it ftom a place of knowledge.Surely his opinion is not xenophobic?

 

[Guest]

I think when Obama said that ISIL didn't speak for Islam, he meant to say it didn't speak for all Muslims.  It was an error on his part.

He wouldn't deliberately tar all Muslims with the same brush.

[Guest]

Indonesian politician on trial for blasphemy.  Could face five years in jail.  At least he would be alive.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-3828551

That said, the country's largest Muslim group has refused to join the witch hunt.  Or is trying to, anyway.

I hope he is found not guilty.

Edited December 13, 2016 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[dialamah]

NM

Edited December 13, 2016 by dialamah

[Guest]

Just now, dialamah said:

Should one say "Warren Jeffs doesn't speak for Christians" or "Warren Jeffs doesn't speak for all Christians"?   If it was the former, would anyone seek to correct it?   Would anyone even notice?  

Warren Jeffs is a Christian and he speaks for himself and all his followers.  He does not, however, speak for all Christians.

[DogOnPorch]

He is also in PRISON.

[dialamah]

I did decide this wasn't worth bothering with, though I ought to have decided prior to hitting 'post', not a minute later.  

[DogOnPorch]

As for Islam, it is Western Civilization's historic ENEMY. Not buddy...not pal...not good time gal.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

He is also in PRISON.

I thought he was dead.  I got him mixed up with Fred Phelps!  He was a Christian too.

[?Impact]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

he speaks for himself and all his followers

That's an interesting statement. Where does that put those tens of millions of 'Catholics' who didn't follow the birth control policies of the pope for decades? I'm not taking about those who abandoned the church, but the tens of millions who still went to regular mass but used a condom/pill?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

That's an interesting statement. Where does that put those tens of millions of 'Catholics' who didn't follow the birth control policies of the pope for decades? I'm not taking about those who abandoned the church, but the tens of millions who still went to regular mass but used a condom/pill?

It would depend on the individual.  Did they believe they were sinning, or did they not give a hoot?

This is my point.  Different people interpret things differently.  I does not mean they are not what they say they are.  My Mum was a Catholic, but she only had three kids.  She was still a Catholic.

Edited December 13, 2016 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[DogOnPorch]

Sooooooo....religion has no doctrine?

Islam is just unlucky in that...by random chance...it has attracted so many murderous individuals who think women are chattel.

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It would depend on the individual.  Did they believe they were sinning, or did they not give a hoot?

 

Why would that matter?  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Why would that matter?  

It speaks to their interpretation of their beliefs.  If they believe in a loving God who doesn't care as much about contraceptives as the Pope says, it doesn't make them any less Catholic.  To them.  And to me.  Maybe not to the Pope.

Edited December 13, 2016 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It speaks to their interpretation of their beliefs.  If they believe in a loving God who doesn't care as much about contraceptives as the Pope says, it doesn't make them any less Catholic.  To them.  And to me.  Maybe not to the Pope.

And if they believes they were sinning, would they still be Catholic?   I'm a little confused by your original statement.

Doesn't the Church always believe you are Catholic, even if you've lapsed, unless they actively excommunicate you?

[Goddess]

37 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And if they believes they were sinning, would they still be Catholic?   I'm a little confused by your original statement.

Doesn't the Church always believe you are Catholic, even if you've lapsed, unless they actively excommunicate you?

This is true.  But at least they have some kind of centralized doctrine.  And some sanctions for misbehaviour.

For instance, you can be a wife beater and still be a Catholic.  But your wife will receive help.  The Church may offer counselling or suggest counselling.  There are resources provided for the wife.  The man would likely be considered a "bad" Catholic and they would try to correct him.

There doesn't seem to be any centralized doctrine for Islam - everyone is free to interpret it however they want.  Maybe this is the problem.

Would a Muslim wife beater be considered a "bad" Muslim?  Do the women receive any kind of help?  Are the men counselled to stop beating their wives?  No, women are considered chattel and can be dealt with however the man likes.  The imams who produce videos on "How To Beat Your Wife" - are they removed from their positions of authority?No, it's an accepted practice, even if some don't agree with wife beating.

A Catholic who beats his wife will not be accepted in society.  But a Muslim who beats his wife is accepted by his peers, since he is free to interpret the Koran as he wishes.

This is what makes it dangerous - that everyone is free to interpret it however they want and there are no sanctions for bad behaviour (definite sanctions for westerners, though) and no centralized doctrine to refer to.

There is a scripture that I always remember (I think from Hebrews?) that says "The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword, able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart."  If violence and chaos is in your heart, then you will interpret the words of the book according to your heart's desires.  It's the same for the Koran.  YOU may choose to interpret it in a kind way, but I have yet to see a Msulim man show respect or kindness to his wife or any other females.  I know it upsets you but this is what I've seen and experienced.

[Altai]

After my topic is complately derailed, I decided to derail this topic as response.

Atheists are massacring people in Aleppo. 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/12/middleeast/aleppo-syria-government-gains/index.html

[DogOnPorch]

A Saudi woman went outside without a hijab and dared tweet a picture of herself outdoors in such a state.

She was arrested by Morality Police and faces uncertain punishment. Demands for her execution are being vocalized.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/saudi-woman-tweets-photo-of-herself-without-a-hijab-and-is-arrested-for-violations-of-general-morals

But, of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Religion of Peace, Islam...innocent in all this mayhem.

[Argus]

12 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

A Saudi woman went outside without a hijab and dared tweet a picture of herself outdoors in such a state.

She was arrested by Morality Police and faces uncertain punishment. Demands for her execution are being vocalized.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/saudi-woman-tweets-photo-of-herself-without-a-hijab-and-is-arrested-for-violations-of-general-morals

But, of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Religion of Peace, Islam...innocent in all this mayhem.

Can't have women showing their faces! Next thing you know we'll have to teach them how to put on makeup to cover up the beatings they get for mouthing off to their betters. Oh wait...

Whipping's too good for her. Clearly she must be executed.

[Michael Hardner]

If we admit that religion has something to do with it then what?

 

Can we stop blaming religion alone for these events ?  Do we have a compromise there in how such things are discussed?

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can we stop blaming religion alone for these events ?  

Sure we can, the most godawful religions are clearly conservative.

Quote

Do we have a compromise there in how such things are discussed?

It seems not, Islam is apparently progressive now or don'tchya know?

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If we admit that religion has something to do with it then what?

Can we stop blaming religion alone for these events ?  Do we have a compromise there in how such things are discussed?

If you want to blame something other than religion you'll have to come up with a reasonable theory on why so many widely varying nations have the same sorts of violent, anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-Jewish policies and behaviour. This isn't explainable by saying "Well, they're all Arabs and it's Arab culture". Pakistanis aren't Arabs, nor are Iranians, nor are Malaysians and Indonesians, nor Nigerians and Kenyans.

And if we admit that religion has something to do with it, then what? Then maybe we reconsider the wisdom of importing tens of thousands of people from that religious group every year without investigating them to find out what their social and religious values are.

 

[Omni]

30 minutes ago, Argus said:

If you want to blame something other than religion you'll have to come up with a reasonable theory on why so many widely varying nations have the same sorts of violent, anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-Jewish policies and behaviour. This isn't explainable by saying "Well, they're all Arabs and it's Arab culture". Pakistanis aren't Arabs, nor are Iranians, nor are Malaysians and Indonesians, nor Nigerians and Kenyans.

And if we admit that religion has something to do with it, then what? Then maybe we reconsider the wisdom of importing tens of thousands of people from that religious group every year without investigating them to find out what their social and religious values are.

 

I assume then you are supporting Kellie Leitch for leader of the CPC.