This week in Islam

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Even as I clearly condemn bad behavior and criminal actions by Muslims.

Tell us again how wonderful Egypt is and how Christians thrive there.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

And for vegetarians? 

Kale.  Lots of Kale.

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

 

Nor did you read it, as shows here.

 

Oh, I've read your religions guidebook on hate...aka The Quran. 

Jews are cursed to be as apes and pigs.

Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

https://quran.com/5/60/

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

I never even hinted such behaviour was acceptable.

You failed to condemn it.  I am regularly raked over the coals for failing to condemn Muslim misbehavior, even though I do regularly.

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

All I said was that according to the statistics it virtually never happens. 

In Canada, Islamic terrorism happens even less often.  Yet, people regularly raise fears about "extremists in Canada".  

Before you bring up that worldwide Islamic terrorism is more prevalent, at this time, than any other, I will agree.  And I will also remind you that Muslims are also by far, the biggest victims of Islamic terrorism.  Not to mention the camps in China, the violence against them in India, and increasing violence from Nationalists in Western countries.  All this hate and violence is driven by "tribalism", which you regularly use to excuse harassment and violence of Canadians against immigrants, especially Muslims.

Tribalism is one of those "natural impulses" that we are better off rejecting than embracing.  Kinda like rape and murder.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

 

In Canada, Islamic terrorism happens even less often.  Yet, people regularly raise fears about "extremists in Canada".  

 

 

Not an extremist...

http://jcpa.org/article/why-do-canadian-imams-call-jews-the-sons-of-the-pigs-and-apes/

[dialamah]

30 minutes ago, Argus said:

Tell us again how wonderful Egypt is and how Christians thrive there.

Egypt has many fine qualities, even though they treat Christians poorly.  Just as Canada has many fine qualities, even though we treat First Nations poorly, and have for over 100 years.

I know you'll pretend that terror attacks against Copts in Egypt are worse than a suicide rate among FN youth that is 3 times higher than the national average, or that MMIW aren't really victims of our cultural disinterest and general contempt for Natives.  

 

[Goddess]

40 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Egypt has many fine qualities, even though they treat Christians poorly.  

Which is what was said, but you vehemently disagreed that Christians are treated poorly (Haha - interesting choice of word -  "poorly" - as in killed and places of worship destroyed)

 

Quote

I know you'll pretend that terror attacks against Copts in Egypt are worse than a suicide rate among FN youth that is 3 times higher than the national average, or that MMIW aren't really victims of our cultural disinterest and general contempt for Natives.  

That's the problem - we should be able to discuss attacks against Christians in Egypt without talking about the plight of first nations people in Canada.

One doesn't cancel out the other.  What you repeatedly fail or refuse to recognize is that just because someone is talking currently about one problem, it doesn't mean they don't recognize or acknowledge other problems in the world.

Screeching "Not all Muslims!!!!!!!"  every time a certain behaviour particular to Islam is discussed is getting utterly ridiculous - we all get that it's "not ALL Muslims".  But this is a common tactic of Islamic apologists, such as yourself.

Just admit it, Dia - you do not allow ANY negative discussion of Islam or Muslim behaviour.  You are nothing but an Islamic apologist.  Therre is nothing they can do that you do not minimize, excuse and deny.  Evidenced by your refusal to discuss Christians being attacked in Egypt,  your refusal to let anyone else discuss it and your denial that it was even happening.  Haha - "poorly"......so rich.

Instead of trying to derail the discussion, what if you just said, "Yes, Christians getting attacked in Egypt is a problem.  It's partly cultural, it's partly the religion teaching them that Christians and Jews are pigs and apes.  It needs to stop."

But no....you deny the problem.  Then we have to post incidents of it to prove to you that it is a problem - which you deny if you don't like the source.

this thread would be a lot shorter and a lot less argumentative, if you would just admit that things are a problem, instead of making us prove it's a problem and then weeks and months later in ann unrelated comment, you will finally admit (almost) that Christians have it really bad in Egypt.  Not just that they're treated "poorly" - minimization.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Goddess

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

we all get that it's "not ALL Muslims".  But this is a common tactic of Islamic apologists, such as yourself.

If you get that its "not all Muslims", why do you always assume that any misbehavior by an individual Muslim is religiously motivated and generalize that to all Muslims?  A Saudi guy gets drunk and hits a waitress: "oh it's their religion, that's what Muslim men do!" crows Goddess. 

A Syrian is charged with murder; "OMG" cries Goddess, "Look what we're bringing into Canada - these Muslim men kill young girls because of their religion!"  

You clearly believe that "Muslims" are just misogynistic killers.  Your 'we get that it's not all Muslims' is merely lip service so you don't look quite so extreme.

[Marocc]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Oh, I've read your religions guidebook on hate...aka The Quran. 

Jews are cursed to be as apes and pigs.

Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

https://quran.com/5/60/

The Quran is only in the Arabic language. This ^ is the translation of the meaning of the Qur'an and you have to read it with tafseer. Reading through the words of the translation of the meaning of the Quran without tafseer, thought and study, is not reading the Quran in any sense.

[Goddess]

14 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If you get that its "not all Muslims", why do you always assume that any misbehavior by an individual Muslim is religiously motivated and generalize that to all Muslims?  A Saudi guy gets drunk and hits a waitress: "oh it's their religion, that's what Muslim men do!" crows Goddess. 

A Syrian is charged with murder; "OMG" cries Goddess, "Look what we're bringing into Canada - these Muslim men kill young girls because of their religion!"  

You clearly believe that "Muslims" are just misogynistic killers.  Your 'we get that it's not all Muslims' is merely lip service so you don't look quite so extreme.

No.  YOU are the extremist.  Muslim men who treat women like garbage and kill them because of that belief - they are the extremists.  Why you have difficulty connecting Islamic beliefs about women to how Islamic men treat their own women and women of other cultures, is beyond me. You just keep denying that the religion affects Muslims in any way.

It's a shitty religion, it produces way too many shitty people with shitty attitudes.  No one has said it's ALL of them.  But it is certainly more than you are willing to admit.  That's the only difference - you think it's a minority of Islam's followers who ascribe to these views.  I think it's more than a minority.  But I have never said, ALL Muslims this or that.

Please get help for your persecution complex.  When you label people like me as "extremists" but make excuses for terrorists "mentally ill", No, Dia YOU are the extremist.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Goddess

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Marocc said:

The Quran is only in the Arabic language. This ^ is the translation of the meaning of the Qur'an and you have to read it with tafseer. Reading through the words of the translation of the meaning of the Quran without tafseer, thought and study, is not reading the Quran in any sense.

I think that's the whole point.  Interpretations differ.  If all Muslims read the book with the same tafseer there would be no argument.  Either no infidels would die, or they all would.

Edited July 5, 2019 by bcsapper

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Muslim men who treat women like garbage and kill them because of that belief - they are the extremists

I agree.  

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Why you have difficulty connecting Islamic beliefs about women to how Islamic men treat their own women and women of other cultures, is beyond me. You just keep denying that the religion affects Muslims in any way.

It's the culture in the ME and North Africa to treat women poorly, whether Christian or Muslim or something else.  Honor killings, FGM, plural marriage, child marriage, female oppression and homophobia exists in all groups.  That is why, when you check out NGOs dedicated to helping women in these countries, they make the point that such behaviors cut across all religious and ethnic groups.  

It's only people who want to demonize Muslims who keep insisting that these behaviors are primarily the result of Islamic belief, instead of understanding the historical and cultural context under which these practices have become entrenched, whether an Egyptian Muslim or Coptic Christian, a Catholic in Burkina Faso, or an animist in a Nigerian village.   

 

[DogOnPorch]

34 minutes ago, Marocc said:

The Quran is only in the Arabic language. This ^ is the translation of the meaning of the Qur'an and you have to read it with tafseer. Reading through the words of the translation of the meaning of the Quran without tafseer, thought and study, is not reading the Quran in any sense.

 

The great thing about Islam is that you don't have to listen to what some idiot tells you the Quran says. Islam is between one's self and the murderous Moon deity, Allah. There is absolutely no mention of YOU being the authority on Islamic scripture.

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I agree.  

It's the culture in the ME and North Africa to treat women poorly, whether Christian or Muslim or something else.  Honor killings, FGM, plural marriage, child marriage, female oppression and homophobia exists in all groups.  That is why, when you check out NGOs dedicated to helping women in these countries, they make the point that such behaviors cut across all religious and ethnic groups.  

It's only people who want to demonize Muslims who keep insisting that these behaviors are primarily the result of Islamic belief, instead of understanding the historical and cultural context under which these practices have become entrenched, whether an Egyptian Muslim or Coptic Christian, a Catholic in Burkina Faso, or an animist in a Nigerian village.   

 

 

Where is Islam being practiced where it isn't a giant pain in everybody's ass?

Name the place...where can this infidel look to see Islam practiced as YOU intend?

[Goddess]

15 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I agree.  

It's the culture in the ME and North Africa to treat women poorly, whether Christian or Muslim or something else.  Honor killings, FGM, plural marriage, child marriage, female oppression and homophobia exists in all groups.  That is why, when you check out NGOs dedicated to helping women in these countries, they make the point that such behaviors cut across all religious and ethnic groups.  

It's only people who want to demonize Muslims who keep insisting that these behaviors are primarily the result of Islamic belief, instead of understanding the historical and cultural context under which these practices have become entrenched, whether an Egyptian Muslim or Coptic Christian, a Catholic in Burkina Faso, or an animist in a Nigerian village.   

 

The context under which certain practices became entrenched, while interesting, is irrelevant.  

If it's mostly Muslims practicing FGM today, who started it centuries ago doesn't matter.  Centuries ago, all humans lacked medical knowledge, they lacked human rights awareness.  This is not the case TODAY.

"Christians used to do it centuries ago" may seem like a great excuse and discussion ender to you, but it's not for me.  The world has moved on.  Islam has not.

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Goddess

[Goddess]

50 minutes ago, Marocc said:

The Quran is only in the Arabic language. This ^ is the translation of the meaning of the Qur'an and you have to read it with tafseer. Reading through the words of the translation of the meaning of the Quran without tafseer, thought and study, is not reading the Quran in any sense.

Alternatively, you could not read it at all and decide for yourself whether Jews and Christians are nothing but pigs and apes.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

You failed to condemn it.  I am regularly raked over the coals for failing to condemn Muslim misbehavior, even though I do regularly.

You're comparing condemning acts of mischief to acts of mass slaughter. You do this all the time, desperate to minimize the violence of Islam.

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

In Canada, Islamic terrorism happens even less often.  Yet, people regularly raise fears about "extremists in Canada".  

I could cite a dozen cases where Islamic terrorists were caught organizing slaughter, from wanting to derail a train to blowing up the CN tower to bombing a shopping mall to attacking the House of Commons. So yes, it's something to be very careful about.

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

 All this hate and violence is driven by "tribalism", which you regularly use to excuse harassment and violence of Canadians against immigrants, especially Muslims.

I have not once used tribalism or anything else to excuse violence or harassment against Canadians. I dare you to find me a case where I did. Islamic violence is not so much driven by tribalism as by religious extremism and the messages in that religion which depict non-Muslims as the enemy. Islam says you can do just about anything to non-Muslims if they refuse to surrender to you or pay the tax. You think all the beheadings are out of the blue? They're beheading people because that's what Muhammad did to those who refused to surrender and convert.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Egypt has many fine qualities, even though they treat Christians poorly.  Just as Canada has many fine qualities, even though we treat First Nations poorly, and have for over 100 years.

I know you'll pretend that terror attacks against Copts in Egypt are worse than a suicide rate among FN youth that is 3 times higher than the national average, or that MMIW aren't really victims of our cultural disinterest and general contempt for Natives. 

This is why you lack all credibility. You are incapable of ever accepting any criticism of Islam or any Muslim country without instantly trying to bring up something in the West to excuse it. Natives in Canada have the same rights as Canadians and then some. Christians in Egypt do NOT have the same rights as Muslims. They are regularly persecuted by their neighbours, by terrorist groups, and by the police. Comparing the deliberate, religion-driven attacks and discrimination against them to the situation of natives in Canada is ridiculous and shows your own level of dishonesty.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

The Quran is only in the Arabic language. This ^ is the translation of the meaning of the Qur'an and you have to read it with tafseer. Reading through the words of the translation of the meaning of the Quran without tafseer, thought and study, is not reading the Quran in any sense.

Ah yes, no one can know the Quran except Muslims, and only Arabic Muslims at that. And only Arabic Muslims who can read and understand Arabic as it was spoken in Muhammed's time. But ya know what? We can listen to Muslims, and we can watch how they behave, and it seems to perfectly match our 'imperfect' translations of what the koran says.

Because you see, it really doesn't matter what the words actually say. What matters is how the Muslim world reads them and reacts and responds to them. And that is with violence and brutality the world over.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Argus

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

This is why you lack all credibility. You are incapable of ever accepting any criticism of Islam or any Muslim country without instantly trying to bring up something in the West to excuse it. Natives in Canada have the same rights as Canadians and then some. Christians in Egypt do NOT have the same rights as Muslims. They are regularly persecuted by their neighbours, by terrorist groups, and by the police. Comparing the deliberate, religion-driven attacks and discrimination against them to the situation of natives in Canada is ridiculous and shows your own level of dishonesty.

Same with hijabs and burkas.  Somehow, in her mind:  Muslim majority countries who beat and kill women who do not comply with covering or miss a strand of hair = nuns.

Excuse, deny and minimize.  Every.  Time.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Same with hijabs and burkas.  Somehow, in her mind:  Muslim majority countries who beat and kill women who do not comply with covering or miss a strand of hair = nuns.

Excuse, deny and minimize.  Every.  Time.

 

Nuns are members of the Catholic church...generally...not rank n' file women.

[Argus]

49 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nuns are members of the Catholic church...generally...not rank n' file women.

She knows that. She uses it as an excuse. She and the other Islamophiles are determined to show Islam is exactly the same as Christianity or Judaism - no difference, no more violent, no more brutal or backward. All the mountain of evidence to the contrary gets ignored.

[Goddess]

51 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nuns are members of the Catholic church...generally...not rank n' file women.

Oh yes, we've discussed this ad nauseum.  The dissimilarities to nuns outweigh the similarities - unless you're an apologist for Islam.  Then some pea-brain always has to bring up "But, but, but....NUNS!" when hijabs are discussed.

[Guest]

I never saw a nun do this...

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Oh yes, we've discussed this ad nauseum.  The dissimilarities to nuns outweigh the similarities - unless you're an apologist for Islam.  Then some pea-brain always has to bring up "But, but, but....NUNS!" when hijabs are discussed.

 

2 hours ago, Argus said:

She knows that. She uses it as an excuse. She and the other Islamophiles are determined to show Islam is exactly the same as Christianity or Judaism - no difference, no more violent, no more brutal or backward. All the mountain of evidence to the contrary gets ignored.

 

If I recall, wearing the habit is truly a choice in today's Catholic church. At least out in the boonies (not Rome). None of the Catholic nuns in this city wear them out n' about....for example. Perhaps during Sunday service? Dunno.

But being a Nun is a choice. Period. Les Misérables and all that ilk...nobody forces anybody to become one.

Islam...however....

Edited July 5, 2019 by DogOnPorch