Moderating Mapleafweb's Moderation

[waldo]

clarification request regarding image posting: in regards a previous post within this thread, a previously moderator hidden image was subsequently 'put back on display'.

as long as I can remember there has never been a raised concern about posting images from within pdf format files - as stated within the recent thread on "Quoting PDFs"... "Posting images of tables and graphs are OK." There is recognized moderator concern about posting "text" from PDF files... my take-away from that thread is that doing so is subject to moderator discretion as to whether or not the particular post will be allowed.

=> in a currently running thread, numerous posts have been removed that present image 'graphs' from PDF files from cited sources. I am unclear as to why these particular posts have been removed - respectively, please clarify.

=> in a separate instance, as pertains to dynamic (interactive) website presentation of rendered images, there is no ability to link directly to these type images... the only avenue available is to either take a 'snapshot' copy of the interactive image graph (and host it on a 3rd party image hosting site) and/or simply link to the related web page itself. On a personal note, I would suggest doing both as simply linking to the page will not present the interactive image to those following the link. Please advise - thanks in advance.

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[Michael Hardner]

Waldo - you are trying to boil the ocean here. We're not going to give an opinion on every single instance of every possible use.

Please try to use your best discretion and so will we.

If there's a graph within a PDF, I suggest you snapshot it, provide a link to the original and ensure the terms-of-use are satisfied.

[The_Squid]

I think the Mods are as confused as Waldo about what's an acceptable image...

I suggest using some common sense... deleting a graph that is of moderate size and relates to the topic is rather silly. Deleting images that don't further the discussion, like a giant laughing smiley, probably makes sense.

It's like the spoiler issue... deleting spoilers from the status updates for a new episode or movie makes common sense. Someone is just trying to be a dickhead. Spoilers from a movie that's 5 years old? Probably not a big deal to leave up.

We know the Mods are able to exercise good judgement...

[waldo]

Waldo - you are trying to boil the ocean here. We're not going to give an opinion on every single instance of every possible use.

Please try to use your best discretion and so will we.

If there's a graph within a PDF, I suggest you snapshot it, provide a link to the original and ensure the terms-of-use are satisfied.

that's the point of the clarification request... that clearly isn't being given the respect I believe it deserves. Without definitive understanding we end up with the swirling morass of uncertainty - you keep hearing it in member comments/complaints. This is not a "one off" circumstance; this pertains to how members should handle images, at large.

what you're suggesting I do here reflects on, within the thread I'm speaking to... I believe (since they're now hidden), 3 images from pdf format files that do already follow your suggestion. In the 4th image instance (I believe it's just the one since, again, they're all hidden now), I ask how to properly handle images that can't be linked to directly on a site and that don't associate to a PDF file; rather, they are presented images within website rendered code, dynamically presented in response to selections made within the page... in that regard, for what its worth, I've offered my personal comment on how I interpret they should be handled.

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[bush_cheney2004]

If there's a graph within a PDF, I suggest you snapshot it, provide a link to the original and ensure the terms-of-use are satisfied.

Very good policy to protect IP and the PDF format pioneered by American Randy Adams' team at Adobe.

[BubberMiley]

If someone devotes their life to seeing what it takes to get them banned from this board, why don't you just ban them? It's not like you don't know how it will end.

[waldo]

Very good policy to protect IP and the PDF format pioneered by American Randy Adams' team at Adobe.

you appear confused between EULA and Adobe Products that may create PDF format... notwithstanding, Adobe no longer has proprietary hold on the format (having relinquished it to ISO) and requires no attached royalties. Perhaps the fact so many vendors have products that create/edit PDF files should have alerted you to this. Try again, try harder next time.

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[Charles Anthony]

that's the point of the clarification request... that clearly isn't being given the respect I believe it deserves. Without definitive understanding we end up with the swirling morass of uncertainty - you keep hearing it in member comments/complaints. This is not a "one off" circumstance; this pertains to how members should handle images, at large.

You are right. This is not a "one off" circumstance.

How members should handle images is the same as how they should handle everything/anything they post in the forum: Do not violate copyright law and do not violate the terms of use as spelled out by the originators of any sources.

There is nothing new here.

Any further questions?

[GostHacked]

You are right. This is not a "one off" circumstance.

How members should handle images is the same as how they should handle everything/anything they post in the forum: Do not violate copyright law and do not violate the terms of use as spelled out by the originators of any sources.

There is nothing new here.

Any further questions?

Easy. simply past a fair use disclaimer in the post to avoid all of that.

[waldo]

You are right. This is not a "one off" circumstance.

How members should handle images is the same as how they should handle everything/anything they post in the forum: Do not violate copyright law and do not violate the terms of use as spelled out by the originators of any sources.

There is nothing new here.

Any further questions?

thanks for your reply; however, respectively, you've hidden 4 images I presented (I believe it's 4 as they are now hidden and I can't confirm), and I'm not clear why. I've described what I believe is the makeup of those 4 in a prior post, a few posts back in this thread - here. The clarification I seek is both particular to this circumstance but also pertains to, of course, MLW members broad understanding of how to properly present images within the MLW forum.

perhaps if I elaborate further, speaking generally without regard to the circumstance in question:

- can I present an image (graph or table) taken from a PDF format file?... this would be a snapshot image taken and hosted on a 3rd party image hosting site and inline linked to MLW from there; reference linkage to the PDF file would accompany the MLW post that presents the image. This has been a long-standing practice; I quoted you yourself replying in the "Quoting PDFs" thread that, "Posting images of tables and graphs are OK."

- can I present an image (graph or table) taken from a website that itself renders the image through dynamic code processing associated with interactive selection? That is to say, a snapshot of the image must be taken and hosted on a 3d party image hosting site and inline linked to MLW from there; reference linkage to the website page itself would accompany the MLW post that presents the image.

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[bush_cheney2004]

...How members should handle images is the same as how they should handle everything/anything they post in the forum: Do not violate copyright law and do not violate the terms of use as spelled out by the originators of any sources.

There is nothing new here.

Agreed....presenting "borrowed" content without attribution is unacceptable and could be a forum liability. Stealing content/media is not a Charter right despite what many may believe.

[waldo]

Agreed....presenting "borrowed" content without attribution is unacceptable and could be a forum liability. Stealing content/media is not a Charter right despite what many may believe.

good of you to step-in and speak for MLW moderation. Your presumption on "stealing" awaits clarification from the moderators... asking for clarity on how to properly post images within MLW. Oh wait, do you know the particulars to answer my prior questions? Please carry on and speak further for MLW moderation - thanks in advance.

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[Moonlight Graham]

She did all that.......by deleting a spoiler status update?

(I loved your post the though, it reminded me of Taxi Driver and Red Angel Dragnet.........hands up for Hollywood!!! Hooray)

I even build a stature of her in my basement and stuck in the front yard;

[Charles Anthony]

thanks for your reply; however, respectively, you've hidden 4 images I presented (I believe it's 4 as they are now hidden and I can't confirm), and I'm not clear why.

Those posts are collateral damage. The offending post and all posts that branched from the offending post were taken down.

After taking down the offending post, there is a choice:

Do we leave up the reply that quotes the offending post? do we edit the reply?

I chose an expedient intermediate route by hiding all branches from the offending post because I did not want any member to appear talking to a ghost.

I have not had the chance to re-copy them all and send them back to all of the members. I intend to do so.

We encourage folks to avoid responding to whatever they believe should be deleted.

perhaps if I elaborate further, speaking generally without regard to the circumstance in question:

Do whatever you want so long as you do not violate the forum rules, guidelines nor any directive from mod staff.

- can I present an image (graph or table) taken from a PDF format file?... this would be a snapshot image taken and hosted on a 3rd party image hosting site and inline linked to MLW from there; reference linkage to the PDF file would accompany the MLW post that presents the image. This has been a long-standing practice; I quoted you yourself replying in the "Quoting PDFs" thread that, "Posting images of tables and graphs are OK."

Yes --- so long as your presentation respects the forum rules and guidelines.

- can I present an image (graph or table) taken from a website that itself renders the image through dynamic code processing associated with interactive selection? That is to say, a snapshot of the image must be taken and hosted on a 3d party image hosting site and inline linked to MLW from there; reference linkage to the website page itself would accompany the MLW post that presents the image.

How am I supposed to know? The onus is upon you to answer that question.

You are expected to respect copy-right law. It is that simple.

[GostHacked]

We encourage folks to avoid responding to whatever they believe should be deleted.

Hahahahah .. 200 pages and a year later and we have still not made any progress in my view.

[capricorn]

Hahahahah .. 200 pages and a year later and we have still not made any progress in my view.

Progress according to who? The fact you're still here asking these questions may be progress in someone's view. No?

[Guest]

I've been dropping in for more than 6 months and I like the feel here. The posting rules are a little less restrictive as compared to other forums I'm familiar with, which does lead to some anger on my party but I ultimately appreciate the latitude. Some places are very ideologically driven and departing from the norm can lead to a reprimand. I have been warned and received a personal message from a moderator when a post was taken down. In both cases, the move was justified and well explained.

I feel like the job of being a moderator is like that of a referee; a no win situation. So far the people involved here seem quite reasonable.

[Smallc]

#stopthreaddrift

18 posts on the etymology of "Settler" and First Nations people...

It's an interesting discussion for another thread - this is about Jason Kenny and Alberta.

I agree with Brian - this is disruptive, and isn't conducive to natural discussion on this forum. In this particular case, it's definitely not a correct interpretation as it's certainly related to the subject.

It's also interesting that the moderators, having no time, are able to count posts that they believe to be off topic, but trolling still persists (report and ignore).

[Michael Hardner]

I have time when I have time...

I saw the thread and started reading backwards... surely you can see that the thread became about something else ?

Why not start a new thread - seems easy enough to me...

[Smallc]

I'm sure you know from when you used to contribute that it's simply not the same thing to start a new discussion string. This was never an issue before a few months ago - not sure what changed.

[Big Guy]

In any high level sports competition, when the referees become too much part of the competition, then the referees are forced to review their role.

My understanding is that a mods responsibility is to assist in the progress of the discussion. Perhaps it is time for the referees to review their role here.

[cybercoma]

I'm sure you know from when you used to contribute that it's simply not the same thing to start a new discussion string. This was never an issue before a few months ago - not sure what changed.

It's been an issue for awhile. "Thread drift" is just their catch-all for closing down discussions without actually addressing trolling.

[Bob Macadoo]

It's been an issue for awhile. "Thread drift" is just their catch-all for closing down discussions without actually addressing trolling.

....you mean like a thread titled "Leftist Marxist Goons".....but don't use the word racist or Mr. Canada as it will be deleted.

[kimmy]

It's been an issue for awhile. "Thread drift" is just their catch-all for closing down discussions without actually addressing trolling.

I don't know if trolling is quite the right word.

Some members feel very passionate about certain topics, which is fine, but when it gets to the point that other people don't get to discuss other topics because members need to bring their own issue into every thread they visit whether it's relevant or not.

Climate change. Global warming conspiracy theories. Palestinians and Zionists. USA USA. Native issues used to be a big one that certain people tried to bring into every topic.

Charles locked the Orlando thread because of this. I re-opened it with a plea for people to focus on the topic, and ended up spending two days deleting stuff left and right because some people felt like they had to share their personal interpretation of the Hadiths or the life and times of the Prophet. If people had focused on discussing Islam's possible contribution to the shooting-- ie homophobia in Islam in the 21st century-- that would have been acceptable. But if you're posting about Mohammad riding off to heaven on a magical griffon, you're not on topic. Some people objected to that... felt I was being arbitrary in deciding what stayed and what didn't... that it was subjective. I understand that, but my feeling is that people deserved a chance to discuss events in Orlando and not have the thread get snuffed by the same argument that the same posters have been having for years on this forum.

-k

[BC_chick]

Kimmy, I take it you deleted my post where I pointed out that it's very unbecoming of a forum facilitator to say what you did below because it didn't belong on the thread. So please address it here.

"progressives are heartbroken at the prospect of fewer brown-people entering Britain."

How can you be a moderator and say things like that?