Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[BubberMiley]

Ford said on Toronto radio this morning that he "Does Not" use drugs.

No, he said he's not an addict. He also said he's not an alcoholic; he didn't say he doesn't drink.

[waldo]

Maybe because it's a fake.

oh nooooos! That should be good for another 30 pages in this thread! Let me start: turns out, there was a purposeful intent by FordNation to erase the fake video from the hard-drive... knowing full well that the 'police forensic techs' would eventually get around to recovering it. Of course, the fake is so well done that it fools the police and sets up the Chief. Part 17-3.x of the master plan has Ford challenging the Chief/police to release the video. Eventually, the video will get released under the intense public pressure clamoring for "fairness"! A FordExpertWitness comes forward to reveal the fakiness of the fake video. Ford is swept up in the resulting wave of public indignation against the media/police and rallies to another election win!

[Guest American Woman]

He wants to see the video because he wants to see what he's being accused of. Maybe there are several instances where he's been video taped doing something he shouldn't be and he's not sure which one the chief is talking about.

So why would he want it to go public, if it's him doing something wrong? His lawyer, too? Even if Ford himself is not capable of good judgement in that regard, surely his lawyer would be?

[Boges]

So why would he want it to go public, if it's him doing something wrong? His lawyer, too? Even if Ford himself is not capable of good judgement in that regard, surely his lawyer would be?

Because they know they probably won't release the video so they can call the Chief's claim into doubt.

Just like when Ford was accused of calling a 9-11 operator a Bitch and the Chief said he has heard the tape and Ford didn't do it. People wanted the tape to be released for the same reason.

[BubberMiley]

Because they know they probably won't release the video so they can call the Chief's claim into doubt.

It's common for the overly political to try to question the integrity of whistle-blowers when they're blowing the whistle against their team. It's a destructive, nasty part of contemporary political discourse, and we've certainly seen a lot of it in this thread.

[g_bambino]

If on the other hand what you are expressing is a subjective opinion, then you must clearly indicate its not a fact but a subjective opinion or speculation.

Earlier you said we had to take their word for it that a video existed. So, you think it was the opinion of Gawker and the Star's reporters that they saw a video?

[Guest American Woman]

Because they know they probably won't release the video so they can call the Chief's claim into doubt.

Could very well be; yet if it can be released after it's no longer criminal evidence, it will just make them both look the fool.

[g_bambino]

The fact that two reporters took notes while independently viewing the video, and that a third person from Gawker independently saw the video, lent credibility to their claim too. Still, some felt inclined to question their professional integrity anyway and were enraged that others would even listen to them.

That's the supposed international media conspiracy I keep asking about but nobody who indicates they believe there was one seems to want to explain why they think that.

[g_bambino]

Exactly. And I'm saying that's no big deal because the three reporters also already said it exists. I believe the chief, but I don't have any reason to think he's more credible than the reporters.

I think it rather is a big deal, since Ford's and his followers' main defence against anything the media reported about Ford was to cry victimhood at the hands of the lefty media, which was simply out to get the Mayor because they were nothing but dirty pinkos who hate him and all he stands for. Now Ford Nashun, being a real law and order, cops-are-heroes-who-put-down-the-baddies kind of group, has to deal with the fact that the Chief of Police has just vindicated that same lefty press. It's obviously--judging by the Nashun's various reactions--driven them to run around bumping into each other in total confusion and disarray.

[Boges]

Could very well be; yet if it can be released after it's no longer criminal evidence, it will just make them both look the fool.

That may not happen for years. Certainly won't happen before the 2014 election.

[BubberMiley]

I think "looking the fool" is unavoidable at this point, especially among those who have defended him.

[Guest American Woman]

That may not happen for years. Certainly won't happen before the 2014 election.

That's likely true.

[Mighty AC]

I swear to you American W they are going to find him dead in a hotel one of these days like Chris Farley or John Belushi.

He's just another in a long list of self destructive people who make the news.

Unfortunately, this self destructive, mess of a man is at the helm of the largest city in the country, refusing to step down. It would be nice if the man sought treatment before he kills himself. It would also be nice if he spared Torontonians anymore of the embarrassment his personal gong show has caused the city.

[Guest American Woman]

Unfortunately, this self destructive, mess of a man is at the helm of the largest city in the country, refusing to step down. It would be nice if the man sought treatment before he kills himself. It would also be nice if he spared Torontonians anymore of the embarrassment his personal gong show has caused the city.

I think, sadly, he could very well end up as Rue suggests. But is he an embarrassment to Torontonians in general? Or does he still have his base of supporters? Are there any polls out there to shed any light on it?

Edited November 4, 2013 by American Woman

[Mighty AC]

I'm willing to be that even his supporters would rather that he not be connected to dealers, thugs, drug use, alcoholism, etc.

[Black Dog]

Here we go again. What a gossip monger. You just can't resist the gossiping can you.

Agreed with you American W as usual. Two different issues. One is Ford on self destruct which none of us want to see for his sake and ours or his family's, the other is journalistic ethics and what should and should not be reported and when, etc.

Clearly Black Dog is enjoying the on-going lurid details.

You bet I am. Never a dull moment in Fordlandia.

No, he said he's not an addict. He also said he's not an alcoholic; he didn't say he doesn't drink.

And really, what reason has he ever given us for doubting his honesty?

[Guest American Woman]

I'm willing to be that even his supporters would rather that he not be connected to dealers, thugs, drug use, alcoholism, etc.

I'm sure they would prefer that - but has he lost their political support because of all that's happened? Time will tell - unless he resigns first. I'm just curious if there have been any polls since all this has happened.

[Black Dog]

I'm willing to be that even his supporters would rather that he not be connected to dealers, thugs, drug use, alcoholism, etc.

I think there's a not insignificant number of people who think this is all a conspiracy by powerful elites who despise Ford fro being a regular guy (I mean who doesn't like a little hit of crack or drive drunk every now and then). The question is: are they enough to get him re-elected (assuming they vote) and are they so unshakable that they will be able to look past the inevitable next chapter in this story (we know there will be more because with this guy, there's always more).

[Icebound]

But is he an embarrassment to Torontonians in general? Or does he still have his base of supporters?

There are always people who buy cigarettes on the black market because it saves a dollar... pay cash in order to hide HST, etc..

As long as they save a buck because he scrapped the auto surcharge... do they care what sort of people the leader of the country's largest city associates with, how be behaves, or what kind of a city it will be in ten years from now... or even two years from now?

[cybercoma]

You bet I am. Never a dull moment in Fordlandia.

Oh man. I got a good chuckle out of this since the actual Fordlândia is a great allegory for this whole situation.

From Wikipedia

Fordlândia (Portuguese pronunciation: [fɔʁdʒiˈlɐ̃dʒɐ], Ford-land) is a now-abandoned, prefabricated industrial town established in the Amazon Rainforest in 1928 by American industrialist Henry Ford...The project was ultimately a total failure.[/size]

[eyeball]

I think the way too many people jump to conclusions in this age of the internet based on such flimsy/unsubstantiated evidence all but wipes out the idea of 'innocent until proven guilty,' and unfortunately, lives have been forever changed/tarnished by such reporting/reactions.

What knots my gaunch is why so much of the media/news is meeting the demand that equal time be given to everything from the sublime to the ridiculous.

That's increasingly wiping out much hope for intelligent, evidenced based discourse on just about anything of any real importance.

[Michael Hardner]

Or does he still have his base of supporters? Are there any polls out there to shed any light on it?

His approval rating went up after the scandal. It's the disengaged voters making an obscene gesture to the establishment, I suspect.

[Icebound]

Apparently Doug now wants Chief Blair gone.

Blair is biased, because Blair saw the videos. Ya think??

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/11/05/doug-ford-says-toronto-police-chief-blair-should-step-aside/

[cybercoma]

His approval rating went up after the scandal. It's the disengaged voters making an obscene gesture to the establishment, I suspect.

I need to see the methodology of the poll. I suspect there was probably a sampling or timing problem. The poll came out the day after the information was released, so most people may not have been completely aware of the extent of it at the time of polling as well.

[Boges]

I don't understand how some act all embarrassed and indignant that Ford is now late night fodder. John Stewart's skit was particularly funny.

Like people are going to make up their mind about a city about who their mayor is. I'd imagine most Americans think Toronto is no bigger than a city like Cleveland let alone the 4th largest proper city in the continent.