OCCUPY

[bush_cheney2004]

....Gee ... maybe the banks and corporations and governments DO need 'the little guy' for economic recovery!

Sorry...the consumer is not so dumb anymore....savings rates are increasing...and the money is piling up. Pay cash or put it on layaway. Canadians carry more personal debt that Americans now.

[Wild Bill]

Peace and love don't work.

But governments have bigger guns than YOU do!

[bush_cheney2004]

NO they did not touch protesters.

Just stole their tents and belongings and threw them in garbage trucks, a provocation that will figure in lawsuits for damages, to be sure.

The protester's actions were unlawful. Must sterilize. Unlawful...sterilize.

[jacee]

Ok looks like there seems to be a common theme here about lack of public support for the OCCUPY movement.And now that a few Canadian cities are successfully dispersing OCCUPY some may believe that this is finaly over?

Obviously time will tell.

After all these people(OCCUPY) have other matters to attend to.And the coming weather/season is not friendly for public protest in Canada so this was predicted.

The question remains still about spring 2012?(Canada OCCUPY)

Will there be so much abundant good economic news that OCCUPY Canada won't see the light of spring 2012?

From Jim Flarety's speech yesterday I think not!

WWWTT

Super conservative, major centre of Neo-Nazi activity, London ON police stole protesters tents and belongings.

The protest has NOT been didpersed, and will not be.

One strategy being proposed is "flash" occupations that will allow protesters to stay ahead of injunctions, police, etc.

[bush_cheney2004]

...One strategy being proposed is "flash" occupations that will allow protesters to stay ahead of injunctions, police, etc.

Great strategy...the public already hates that. These brainiacs still can't figure it out compared to how their parents or grandparents did it.

[jacee]

But governments have bigger guns than YOU do!

Which is why OCCUPY does not use violence.

Rick is wrong on this.

Engaging with the violence of the state would be a mistake, and is not a strategy of OCCUPY.

Edited November 9, 2011 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

Which is why OCCUPY does not use violence.

OCCUPY is violent and unsafe for the public at large. Vandalism is violence against inanimate objects!

[Tilter]

NO they did not touch protesters.

Just stole their tents and belongings and threw them in garbage trucks, a provocation that will figure in lawsuits for damages, to be sure.

Darn. I wonder if the "occupants"?? had time to find their stashes. If not there'll be a lot of strung out addicts in London today. Poor guys, let me shed a tear for them----- or not.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Tilter

[Rick]

Which is why OCCUPY does not use violence.

Rick is wrong on this.

Engaging with the violence of the state would be a mistake, and is not a strategy of OCCUPY.

You say tomatoe I say tomato...

It might not be a strategy per se but I promise you many are prepared to use it.

[Shady]

Way to go London! You made me proud last night!

We all need to stand up against mob rule and uphold the rule of law. Nobody is allowed to camp in a city park, no matter who you are and what you're protesting! We are the real 99%!!!!

[BubberMiley]

Way to go London! You made me proud last night!

Did you throw bananas at them?

[GostHacked]

OCCUPY is violent and unsafe for the public at large. Vandalism is violence against inanimate objects!

How violent was the last American Revolution? What were they protesting against?

[Handsome Rob]

This topic deserves its own thread but I will say a few things.

What was in question was NASAs claim to have astronauts land on the moon and return to Earth.

Sending a projectile to the moon or mars was never in question.

Those pictures on the link you provided remind me of the one the pentagon released of the plane hitting on 911.

Inconclusive!

Oh and by the way did you notice on the JAXA picture there is no shadows on the lunar surface?

Start a thread about this and tell me where to look for it and I will be glad to continue,or if not and you still want to debate this ask me and I'll start the thread,I'll find the appropriate category and I'll tell you where to look ok.

WWWTT

-Ah, so all those people watching through amateur telescopes were victims of an elaborate hoax.

-The radar tracking and radio observatory's were also victims of a hoax. Their must have been another hidden Saturn V launch somewhere that nobody noticed even if they did shatter windows and cause ceiling tiles to fall.

-The Apollo 12 S4B recently discovered as an asteroid orbiting the sun was placed there to fool us.

-The 1/4 million NASA employees directly involved in the program are all in on it.

-The parts of the Surveyor probe brought back actually never went to the moon. The evidence that they were on the moon was fabricated.

-The hundreds of pounds of moon rocks brought back were fabricated.

-The current space agencies photographs of the Apollo landing sites were fabricated. All the other space agencies are in on it as well.

-The soviet union who had probes in orbit at the time of Lunar landing had no reason whatsoever to call BS.

-The reentry effects from high speed Trans-Earth Injection reentry were all exactly replicated and fabricated on the command module.

-The radio-isotope generator sitting at the bottom of the pacific from Aquarius was only placed their because NASA felt like dropping radioactive products in the ocean for no apparent reason.

-The entire story of Apollo 13 was fabricated to increase believability, included the half length mission.

Now that it is settled, perhaps it ought not be discussed anymore.

[Tilter]

Which is why OCCUPY does not use violence.

Rick is wrong on this.

Engaging with the violence of the state would be a mistake, and is not a strategy of OCCUPY.

I wonder how tha Police who were bitten by the non-violent occupants feel the same. With all the reported ODs I can only wonder how many are peacefully sharing HIV & Hep C

[WWWTT]

Now that it is settled, perhaps it ought not be discussed anymore.

I believe this all started as a quote that I made about how I felt many people are brainwashed.

Let me ask you something,does it bother you that I do not hold your belief?Or that I have my own belief?

Does it bother you that OCCUPY participants have their own beliefs?

I personaly find it fascinating that some people never question what they see on TV or read!

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

Let me ask you something,does it bother you that I do not hold your belief?Or that I have my own belief?

No...this has been a good exercise. It reveals in startling detail the depths of paranoia and disconnect from reality by some of our esteemed members.

Does it bother you that OCCUPY participants have their own beliefs?

I personaly find it fascinating that some people never question what they see on TV or read!

Yet OCCUPY seeks to be recognized in this and many other mainstream media outlets. How ironic be your statement.

[bush_cheney2004]

I wonder how tha Police who were bitten by the non-violent occupants feel the same. With all the reported ODs I can only wonder how many are peacefully sharing HIV & Hep C

One can only hope that they all 'OD' together a la Jonestown.

[Boges]

You say tomatoe I say tomato...

It might not be a strategy per se but I promise you many are prepared to use it.

Look the Occupy supporters are fighting. (Grabs Popcorn)

The true protesters may not want violence but similar to the G20 I'm sure they've been infiltrated by people that want to use violence.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Boges

[scribblet]

Time for them to stop illegally occupying public space, the homeless want it back anyway...

[cybercoma]

It does when them protesters are stoned half the time.

Remember that time they banned drinking on campgrounds because of the open fires and alcohol/drugs that people were consuming?

If you did nothing wrong the judge let's you go and there is no record of what happened, if only we had this in north America, oh wait we do!

How did that work out for Donald Marshall Jr., David Milgaard, James Driskell, Anthony Hanemaayer, Simon Marshall, Guy Paul Morin, William Mullins-Johnson, Romeo Phillion, Thomas Sophonow, Steven Turcott, Kyle Unger, and Erin Walsh?

If you want to know, you can read about it here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/08/06/f-wrongfully-convicted.html

[Handsome Rob]

I believe this all started as a quote that I made about how I felt many people are brainwashed.

Let me ask you something,does it bother you that I do not hold your belief?Or that I have my own belief?

Does it bother you that OCCUPY participants have their own beliefs?

I personaly find it fascinating that some people never question what they see on TV or read!

WWWTT

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you have your own belief. Everybody is entitled to it.

My question to you is;

Have you gone out seeking facts to provided basis for your beliefs? Are you looking for proofs?

On the basis of the moon landing, have you looked into the disputes? Have you looked at the published history, all of the things disproving the conspiracy theories? It would appear not to be the case.

Apply the same thing to the occupy movement. Have you looked at what they are trying to do? Is it feasible? What effects their will be?

It would appear that most of the supporters have not done this. "What they are saying aligns with my views, therefore I agree with them regardless of truth or not." That's becoming religion.

That bothers me. People that are too lazy to go and look. To lazy to seek answers. We have an amazing amount of information available to us, yet we're too lazy to do even the basic research that our parents did.

Demands like nationalizing banks, and pulling out of the SPP that hasn't really existed in two years. 9/11 Truther demands. I have/had questions regarding all of these things, but in the context they are presented they just turn people away, the people that are willing to put in constructive work toward solving problems. And occupy fizzles, as it has.

It could have been something good, it could have turned into a grassroots tea party type movement, with real political involvement. But people were too lazy to do the work and ruined it before it began.

[blueblood]

Remember that time they banned drinking on campgrounds because of the open fires and alcohol/drugs that people were consuming?

How did that work out for Donald Marshall Jr., David Milgaard, James Driskell, Anthony Hanemaayer, Simon Marshall, Guy Paul Morin, William Mullins-Johnson, Romeo Phillion, Thomas Sophonow, Steven Turcott, Kyle Unger, and Erin Walsh?

If you want to know, you can read about it here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/08/06/f-wrongfully-convicted.html

Yes they ban alcohol consumption on may long weekend in parks. Also campgrounds have strict rules about quiet time after 11 and will punt you out if you are causing a disturbance. Try again.

Uh those people eventually get released from jail and get the slate wiped clean. Some got compensated. Far better off than risking your life getting into a situation with the cops. If your innocent, what's there to worry about? So every person should be hostile when dealing with the police? You fail again.

[Handsome Rob]

Liked this, sorry, it's long.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/11/08/OccupyVancouver/

Occupy Vancouver Turning off Its Power Source

Impossible demands, conspiracy theories risk alienating broad range of supporters.

Occupy Vancouver was supposed to be talking about a revolution -- against big business greed and obscene income inequality.

Inspired to show solidarity with the original Occupy Wall Street movement, it was a righteous reaction against Canada's own problems -- like the fact that just 3.8 per cent of Canadian families control 67 per cent of household wealth.

Or that Canada's top one per cent grabbed 33 per cent of all income gains between 1997 and 2007.

British Columbia has its own powerful reasons for protest. This province has had the worst child poverty rate for seven straight years. And the forced eviction of adults with developmental disabilities from their homes by the government's Community Living B.C. is appalling.

Add in the meltdown of global financial markets yet again, with the job loss and suffering that creates, and you have a recipe for an energetic populist movement that could change the world for the better.

Instead Occupy Vancouver has turned into a sad parody of a revolution -- with absurd demands and no recognition that a squat on city property does diddly-squat to build support for the real change that would curb corporate control.

But it could help Vancouver's right-wing Non-Partisan Association regain control of the city in the Nov. 19 municipal election by defeating Mayor Gregor Robertson and his Vision Vancouver and Coalition of Progressive Electors team.

That would be a brilliant "revolution" indeed -- to elect a council full of people who oppose everything Occupy Wall Street has raised.

And to defeat a progressive majority who are trying to end street homelessness, make Vancouver the greenest city in the world and an arts and culture capital.

Safety issue is real

Saturday's tragic apparent drug overdose death of Ashlie Gough, a 23-year-old woman from Victoria, was an overwhelmingly clear signal that Occupy Vancouver is unsafe and needs to end as soon as possible in a peaceful manner.

But no. Supporters on Twitter actually asked if Vancouver would shut down a hotel if an overdose occurred and announced they don't recognize the authority of police, fire or City staff on "their land" at the Vancouver Art Gallery.

An online petition promoted by Toronto activist and Rabble.ca founder Judy Rebick calls on the city to "Stop bowing to political pressure to remove the camp and acknowledge that a political protest is protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms."

"Recognize that encampments are integral to Occupy Vancouver and the movement as a whole," the petition signed by less than 2,000 says. "Talk of splitting the two is a disingenuous way to split the issue. The protest is the encampment is the movement."

No, it's not the movement. The movement is not and should not be about the encampment. It is about a set of ideals.

When the medium of protest became the message, it was lost. The right to squat on any public property is not the same as demanding a financial transactions tax of one per cent to fund social programs -- the Tobin Tax.

Demands and conspiracy theories

However the online petition goes the other way -- even suggesting conspiracy theories about Vancouver manipulating safety issues. Another of the demands asks Vancouver to:

"Acknowledge that the City is playing politics with health and safety and the Vancouver Fire Department is being used to pursue the political goal of removing the camp before the election."

Forget that propane burners have been found in several tents. Forget that the city has even supplied power to the camp to provide heat and discourage use of dangerous fuels -- it's a conspiracy!

But what to expect when the partial rough draft list of 59 demands posted on the Occupy Vancouver website include:

-We demand an independent investigation into 9-11 which will examine all evidence including that which would support a false-flag explanation.

-We demand that prostitution be legalized and regulated as it is in New Zealand.

-We demand -- as Bertrand Russell suggested -- there be two police forces -- one to prove your guilt and another to prove your innocence. We demand lawyers be required to work in pairs so that a lack of resources won't be a factor in deciding a case. (Alternative: We demand increased funding for legal aid.)

-We demand the repeal of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. All synthetic drugs and hard drugs (including cocaine and heroin) must be distributed by prescription through a pharmacist.

-We demand that all harmless people be protected in the constitution. If a new law is written and a new set of people are to be criminalized, the burden of proof will now be on the government to provide evidence that this new group of criminals is inherently harmful to others. This will end scapegoating.

-We demand the release of all non-violent prisoners.

To be fair, there are lots of demands that many would heartily support -- even if some are highly unlikely to be achieved.

For example, the list also includes:

-We demand that the wealthiest one per cent pay their fair share by the closing of tax loopholes such as dark pools of liquidity and employer-side payroll taxes. Progressive taxation principles must prevail, income from capital must be taxed at the same level as wage income.

-We demand that the federal government keep out of private-sector union negotiations.

-We demand the prohibition of self-regulation by large-scale industries.

-We demand that a "ministry of whistle-blowing" be created with the power to protect any whistle blower –- corporate or otherwise -- from harm of any kind. We need to be able to safely call attention to injustice. Previous failed attempts to do this should be learned from.

But mixing conspiracy theories and fringe positions with populist politics isn't going to appeal to the 99 per cent of ordinary people who are supposed to be backing the Occupy movement against the privileged 1 per cent who run the economy.

People sleeping in tents in the cold and rain with obvious hard-drug use going on is not going to mobilize working people who have suffered three decades of wage stagnation while the super rich get even wealthier.

[jacee]

You say tomatoe I say tomato...

It might not be a strategy per se but I promise you many are prepared to use it.

Not those in the movement, no.

[WWWTT]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you have your own belief. Everybody is entitled to it.

My question to you is;

Have you gone out seeking facts to provided basis for your beliefs? Are you looking for proofs?

On the basis of the moon landing, have you looked into the disputes? Have you looked at the published history, all of the things disproving the conspiracy theories? It would appear not to be the case.

If you respect my belief than why do you constantly challenge it?

WWWTT