jbg Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Seems like you're kinda leaving some important stuff out. Why? Many are missing.... Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Never mind the fact that hes the guy decoupled the value of the dollar from gold which within a few short years lead to the debt spiral seen here... http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/United-States-national-debt.png He had no choice in that. But he put himself into the position where it was forced. And the timing was driven by the upcoming 1972 election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Which one? Um, Nixon to China. Ending the Vietnam war. Some of his domestic initiatives such as the creation of the Evironmental Protection Agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Ill buy you a beer Bill, or a few! You gotta get yourself to BC though Thanks Dre! But not one of those Uncle Ben high-alcohol beers you coastal folks enjoy. I'm too old to handle it! I'll remember your kind invitation! It might happen in a year or two. Meanwhile, if you come to my town I'll break out the GOOD scotch, not the kind I save for unwanted relatives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Did you know that the lunar landings have never bein "independantly scientifically verified" by any other body/space/country agency? Did you know that that's a load of BS? Didn't think so. Freaking lunar landing conspiracy theorist nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Did you know that that's a load of BS? Didn't think so. Freaking lunar landing conspiracy theorist nuts. The Shadows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 It sounds like you are already half way to understanding why these kids are protesting. WWWTT Oh, don't get me wrong! I think there are indeed some very valid points happening. I just think that this bunch of protesters are just too simple to properly understand them or effect any change. They might be good at busting things up but seem to have no idea of how to build something new that would work! Sorta like "Give me some nice dreams! It's YOUR problem how to make them work! And if you don't, I'll burn your house down!" If I had faith in idiots I would have more confidence about voting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Nope! I live in Hamilton and there don't appear to be any such protesters here! http://m.facebook.com/OccupyHamilton?_rdr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 http://m.facebook.com/OccupyHamilton?_rdr Occupy Hamilton on Youtube Small. How about we start a broad movement to document what we are spending money on, benchmark what the rich are contributing/receiving and have a dialogue about where we are going. Government is ... services. We have a sprawling giant network of organizations that need to deliver them and we don't pay enough attention to how it works. Let's have THAT dialogue, and figure out what we need to be doing with our tax money and still stay competitive - including adding new services as the OCCUPY people are demanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Occupy Hamilton on Youtube Small. How about we start a broad movement to document what we are spending money on, benchmark what the rich are contributing/receiving and have a dialogue about where we are going. Government is ... services. We have a sprawling giant network of organizations that need to deliver them and we don't pay enough attention to how it works. Let's have THAT dialogue, and figure out what we need to be doing with our tax money and still stay competitive - including adding new services as the OCCUPY people are demanding. You want open government you say? That would be swell!! You commit fraud against the government, go to jail. The government commits fraud against you, nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 The government commits fraud against you, nothing. Let the buyer beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Occupy Hamilton on Youtube Small. True ... but also true that Hamilton's contribution to the entire movement, and the Toronto camp in particular, is huge. How about we start a broad movement to document what we are spending money on, benchmark what the rich are contributing/receiving and have a dialogue about where we are going. Excellent idea! And exactly the kind of conversation that OCCUPY wants to generat.Are you suggesting doing it here in the forum, or where? Who? Government is ... services. We have a sprawling giant network of organizations that need to deliver them and we don't pay enough attention to how it works. Let's have THAT dialogue, and figure out what we need to be doing with our tax money and still stay competitive - including adding new services as the OCCUPY people are demanding. Again, excellent idea.I encourage you to pursue this. ----- One thought that occurs to me, a discussion whose time has come perhaps, is the HUGE amount of public money we spend on bureaucracies that do nothing but 'means testing' of people applying for various kinds of income support. These huge and expensive bureaucracies developed out of the dual pressures of - some people (the 'left') demanding income supports and - other people (the 'right') demanding tight restrictions on defining only those who need/are. 'deserving' of support. The result is a compromise that truly serves no one well. - 'Means testing' is incredibly labour intensive and expensive for taxpayers ... interpreting complex legislation and regulations, and applying them to each and every applicant requires well educated workers, considerable time, and expensive infrastructure. - The 'right' never seems content with the system, constantly speculating that people are defrauding/taking advantage of the system. - The 'right' is currently insisting they have no responsibility to employ Canadians, only to satisfy their own profit-making or that of shareholders. Given that lack of commitment to Canada and Canadians, it becomes the responsibility of ordinary Canadians to find creative solutions ourselves, not depending on private sector employment from large employers, but perhaps refocuses on small entreprenurial operations. I believe it is time to consider getting rid of the multiple bureaucracies that consume much of our tax dollars, and streamline it into one system that provides a minimally livable benefit to all Canadians, progressively clawed back for income above various levels, and ALL administered through one (also streamlined) tax system. Thus, for example, we view all Canadians, illiterate, disabled, students, elderly, as deserving of a living, and those who can earn more achieve their own rewards, but also have a cushion that enables them to take risks in developing small businesses, retraining, etc. It's difficult to even estimate the costs of all of the means testing in Canada, but it's everywhere and it's HUGE, in some cases probably more than the benefits themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Excellent idea! And exactly the kind of conversation that OCCUPY wants to generate. Is that before or after forcing Canada out of NATO and initiating a 911 investigation? Is that also after crapping in public parks and throwing blood and urine on vendors? Inquiring minds want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Did you know that that's a load of BS? Didn't think so. Freaking lunar landing conspiracy theorist nuts. Do you know what "Independant scientific verification" means? When someone makes a scientific claim,that claim is generaly not accepted until another capable body/agency can verify the results/findings independantly. Good example that was rejected was cold fusion.I am aware of a university(US) that made this claim sometime in the 80's.And after independantly testing the results their claim to cold fusion was rejected. Another good example for this method(and ironic) would be the claim of discovering planets in other solar systems.During the 90's a swiss team made the claim to have discovered planets in a solar system other than our own.Ironicly NASA disputed this claim and asked to independantly verify their claim and methods used.After the Swiss agreed and NASA made its own investigation NASA supported their findings.And since many planets have bein discovered. I believe that no other agency or group has bein able to independantly scientifically verify NASA's claim of the lunar landing! Your welcome to prove me wrong. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Oh, don't get me wrong! I think there are indeed some very valid points happening. I just think that this bunch of protesters are just too simple to properly understand them or effect any change. They might be good at busting things up but seem to have no idea of how to build something new that would work! Sorta like "Give me some nice dreams! It's YOUR problem how to make them work! And if you don't, I'll burn your house down!" If I had faith in idiots I would have more confidence about voting... Ok fair enough! Its up to OCCUPY to prove you wrong then. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 ...I believe that no other agency or group has bein able to independantly scientifically verify NASA's claim of the lunar landing! When did you speak with the Soviet Union on this matter? Are you aware of their efforts to track the Apollo missions, receive communications, and record telemetry data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Excellent idea! And exactly the kind of conversation that OCCUPY wants to generat. Are you suggesting doing it here in the forum, or where? Who? Well, we're doing it right now. But democracy means that you won't get everything you are asking for. In fact, you may get nothing. One thought that occurs to me, a discussion whose time has come perhaps, is the HUGE amount of public money we spend on bureaucracies that do nothing but 'means testing' of people applying for various kinds of income support. It's difficult to even estimate the costs of all of the means testing in Canada, but it's everywhere and it's HUGE, in some cases probably more than the benefits themselves. I think welfare costs about $2B a year in Ontario... http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/735260--millions-wasted-on-welfare-ontario-auditor-general Maybe $10B nationally ? An income supplement would be easier to administer, but would do nothing to helping people get off of social assistance. Nonetheless - you're thinking outside of the box at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 It's difficult to even estimate the costs of all of the means testing in Canada, but it's everywhere and it's HUGE, in some cases probably more than the benefits themselves. Were you not complaining about the rich not paying "their fair share." Yet now you want to do away with means testing? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Let the buyer beware. What am I buying? And how can I opt out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 What will make up for all the lost tax revenue when people quit working in droves for their "free" sustainable income from the government? Don't commies ever learn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 What will make up for all the lost tax revenue when people quit working in droves for their "free" sustainable income from the government? Don't commies ever learn? The point though is that administration costs sometimes aren't considered, or even known when factoring in costs. You've heard of the flat tax idea right ? Same thing, but in reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 http://m.facebook.com/OccupyHamilton?_rdr Jacee, there are maybe 4 guys hanging around a park in downtown Hamilton! You can't tell if they've put up any new tents - there's more around from the winos! Those 4 guys may have wifi happening and are trying to make it look like they have a large and active scene going on but in reality - nobody is noticing and nobody cares! We don't even have any merchants complaining and asking for them to be removed! There's not enough of them to bother anybody! I won't even waste parking money to go visit one of those few! Certainly, they have had little coverage in our local media. Some farmer having a 2-headed calf would draw far more than the OCCUPY protesters have managed here! You're trying to put lipstick on a pig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 The point though is that administration costs sometimes aren't considered, or even known when factoring in costs. You've heard of the flat tax idea right ? Same thing, but in reverse. Then what the hell...just rent some C130's and dump money out the back door! A few threads back the sentiment by some here was to not care about the fraudsters or crooks in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Then what the hell...just rent some C130's and dump money out the back door! A few threads back the sentiment by some here was to not care about the fraudsters or crooks in the system. How much money do you want spend to save $1 ? Have some imagination... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 How much money do you want spend to save $1 ? Have some imagination... Penny wise is sometimes pound foolish. The biggest "savings" is to attack the need for such programs to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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