ExFlyer Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 17 hours ago, Army Guy said: Trump is going to keep on placing tariffs on Canadian products as long as Carney and his government play games in the media...Trump can do all of this all day, every day....so now we know the consequences....and the cause, why can't we figure out how to get a deal...without the dirty laundry....Or maybe we just grin and bear it until there is 100 % tariffs on everything....and we lose more industry and jobs....because we are either to stupid or our pride is in the way.... Trump is willing to suffer short term pain to get long term gains.... To answer your question , because right now they are the best in the market....want to fly grippen a gen 4 aircraft might as well keep our current F-18...or buy the expensive euro aircraft....or invest in the new Gen 6 euro aircraft plenty of new projects that are yielding results today.. There is none at the moment, at least of Gen 5 aircraft...lets not forget we have a historical record of doing this every 40 years or so....which negates most of the reason of building them here, in 5 to 7 years when production is finished, what happens to that investment....Not many people are buying Grippens....by that time a new gen 6 will be out... The Eurofighter or Dassault Rafale are 4.5 gen fighters, light years ahead of the grippen... but have a hefty price tag...funny how no one is mentioning those fighters.... What games is Carney playing in the media?? As for the fighters....Canada has been paying into the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program fornearly 30 years, starting in 1997. I am unsure the total but it is 100's of millions we have spent so far. Changing to another aircraft type ss far beyond just the cost of the aircraft. Logistics and personnel and facilities far outweigh the price of the aircraft by times 10 or more. Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
ExFlyer Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 On 1/30/2026 at 4:08 AM, Zeitgeist said: In fairness, I don’t know why Canada didn’t certify planes from this U.S. company. Was it purely on protectionist grounds? Are we giving an unfair advantage to Bombardier by applying different standards to them? We don’t know because we don’t know the regulations or the planes in detail. I would simply say that it’s not worth trying to make a deal when the options on offer are extortionate. Canada may be better off taking the tariff hit, because the blowback for US supply chains, companies, and consumers is very significant from these tariffs. This is definitely the case for tariffs on potash, aluminum, and softwood lumber, because the Americans don’t have affordable American substitutes for these items. It means that the cost of manufacturing, farming, and building go up for Americans with no real economic upside. We’re being told to buy F-35’s because there’s no better alternative. We’ve basically been going along with that plan, but slamming the door on Bombardier planes to the U.S. market looks coercive and could destroy that industry in Canada. It’s a big squeeze, so why should we be procuring US aircraft? Aircraft type Certification is done by every country. Trump does not have the authority or power to de certify aircraft....unless he fire everyone in the FAA. If he de certifies any aircraft, all it means is that that aircraft type will not be able to fly in his country. We are not told to buy the F35. It is the one chose by our Air Force and it's personnel. There are lots of alternatives but.. better ones? The real truth is changing to a different type of fighter would not be feasible form the financial side. To throw away all the infrastructure, training, special tools and test equipment and hangars etc would just not make any sense. Let alone the actual fighting capability and pilot certifications. "so why should we be procuring US aircraft?" because we cannot afford not to. Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Zeitgeist Posted January 31 Author Report Posted January 31 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Aircraft type Certification is done by every country. Trump does not have the authority or power to de certify aircraft....unless he fire everyone in the FAA. If he de certifies any aircraft, all it means is that that aircraft type will not be able to fly in his country. We are not told to buy the F35. It is the one chose by our Air Force and it's personnel. There are lots of alternatives but.. better ones? The real truth is changing to a different type of fighter would not be feasible form the financial side. To throw away all the infrastructure, training, special tools and test equipment and hangars etc would just not make any sense. Let alone the actual fighting capability and pilot certifications. "so why should we be procuring US aircraft?" because we cannot afford not to. I know. Nevertheless, we don’t have to make all of our fighters F35’s and we don’t have to buy 88 of them. I’m not saying we don’t; I’m saying that we should complete our purchases and procurements based on our interests. It’s worrisome that so many of our nav and communication systems, so much of our military supply chain, is based in the U.S. A chunk of our military shouldn’t be integrated with the U.S.’s, or at least it should be completely separable if necessary. Edited January 31 by Zeitgeist Quote
ExFlyer Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I know. Nevertheless, we don’t have to make all of our fighters F35’s and we don’t have to buy 88 of them. I’m not saying we don’t; I’m saying that we should complete our purchases and procurements based on our interests. It’s worrisome that so many of our nav and communication systems, so much of our military supply chain, is based in the U.S. A chunk of our military shouldn’t be integrated with the U.S.’s, or at least it should be completely separable if necessary. I was part of the Cormorant SAR helicopter procurement project and while it is a great aircraft, it is European and the logistic and maintenance and parts costs are far more than if we would have bought an American made helicopter. Just getting parts and getting parts repaired or overhauled means it takes so much longer and we had to buy triple the spares just to keep the supply chain functioning and have parts available. The work and manufacture and jobs that were supposed to come to Canada never happened (for many reasons, like tooling, production and certification issues as well as cost) so, we are stuck with all support coming from Europe. The fixed wing SAR Kingfisher is turning out to be the same. The OEM's in Europe are just not going to start new factories here just because we bought a few aircraft. The US, while not our best buddy lately, is the highest tech in aviation at this time and the proximity makes it the most economical and logistical sense as well. Edited January 31 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
WestCanMan Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: C’mon, you don’t throw away all that we’ve achieved and built in Canada just because of Trudeau’s governments. I agree that 2015-2025 was a lost decade for Canada. J Trudeau was the worst PM in my lifetime, probably in the history of Canada, but we had a very well-run, thriving country under Harper, better functioning than the U.S., and for about half of his leadership we were wealthier than Americans. Canada can correct course. Carney has to drop the woke-green nonsense of the Trudeau era, and I think Trump has helped Canadians and our main political parties get serious about what we need to do to be stronger and more resilient. However, the US is self-interested like most countries, especially under Trump. Don’t think for a second that acquiring the West has anything to do with empowering westerners. It’s all about resources and advancing US interests. Messing around with separatism is no laughing matter for Canada. It could literally destroy our economy and sovereignty. I have no problem with discussions of economic union with the U.S. it’s probably where we need to end up, but only if it’s chosen by Canadians and we have enough independence in our defence and institutions to lift the drawbridge if the Americans suddenly become coercive. If Canadians freely chose to become integrated within the U.S., that would be fine too, but that’s not what we’re seeing. Some Trump Republicans are encouraging separatism in Canada, doing everything the rest of Canada feared when Quebecers threatened separation. It’s undermining to our sovereignty and democracy. You can’t have it both ways: Either you’re all in supporting Canada’s sovereign self-determination as a free democratic independent country or you’re not. Albertan separatists need to see their move in those terms as well. Being part of Canada isn’t just about getting what you want all the time, it’s about understanding that a certain amount of give and take allows the country to combine for a common purpose that’s greater than the sum of its parts. If that’s forgotten to make a few extra bucks in one province by selling out the country to a foreign power, well, that’s about as close to the definition of traitor that I can think of. Albertans will decide their future like citizens of any province can. I’d like to think that most of them will value and honour remaining in and supporting Canada. I sympathize with the feelings of Western alienation, and I do think our federal government lost its way. We’ve talked about this in depth in terms of regulations on resource development, the Emergencies Act, the whole shaming of Canada as “settler colonial” under the Trudeau activists who kept growing government and trying to tell us how we should think and live. Their vision was destructive, especially in this era of falling birth rates. The only answer is to fix the country, because if we do ever seek greater integration with the U.S., we want to do it from a position of strength. I think Alberta would be quite vulnerable to more coercion if it was on its own. Canada would be weakened as well. The U.S. will keep advancing its interests. So should Canada. Most of our interests overlap anyway. Our sovereignty is no threat to the U.S. We’re an important check on Trump’s excesses. The U.S. is a check on our excesses. That's not a poor reply, but TBH, our reputation went down from close to 9.7/10 to "comparable to Iran" in the pat ten years. We had fascism here and used it to hurt all of our own younger generations, our PM was accusing us of genocide against children in rez schools and against Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, and using the hijab hoax to denigrate Canadians, the PM and our MSM called our Freedom Convoy and all the unvaxed "racists and misogynists" while protecting terrorists here... If the leader of a country says "My people are evil", who's to argue? How can the Iranian gov't and our own PM agree on Canadians being evil? Carney and Trudeau can literally go F themselves. There's no fate to ill to befall them IMO. I relish the day they meet their maker. Edited January 31 by WestCanMan Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
Army Guy Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: So look, I agree that we need the best military gear, and I’m pleased at what’s happening with the navy River Class destroyer and corvette plans, supported by decent coast guard ice breakers. This is good long term planning. The subs even sound quite capable. I would’ve preferred nuclear at first glance, but I don’t know enough about these technologies to speak with authority. I don’t think Carney is playing games in the media, however. Trump is imposting measures and threatening further measures that are seriously damaging to our economy. They must be confronted honestly and decisively. Cowering hasn’t worked. Carney backed off of reciprocal tariffs and it got us nothing. We need new strategic partnerships, and whatever I might think about some of Carney’s net zero extremism, he’s no dummy when it comes to macro economics and international trade. He has leverage internationally that must be drawn upon right now. As you know, we don’t have the military leverage. Our economic leverage against the U.S. is actually significant, but we’re more impacted by Trump’s tariffs than the Americans are by ours. Trump knows this. Calling Carney governor just adds insult to injury. It’s the kind of reckless language that damages foreign relations and trade in significant ways. It’s actually unpresidential and it’s sad that the Republican Party can’t make him accountable for mistakes. Too much power is centralized in the hands of one politician. U.S. democracy and international stability are paying the price. This might surprise you , but the river class Frigates are using massive amounts of US equipment...like spy 6 , VLS systems, and much more if we reject the F-35 do you really think Trump will not retaliate, and decide we can't use any more US tech....or provide any more spares for existing US tech and weapons systems we use right now....The cost to convert all our military to non US parts and equipment would cost us Billions upon bils... It is not what you or i think, it is what Trump perceives what is going on...He has a huge ego, which is easily bruised...Like my mother always said if you don't have anything good to say don't say nothing at all...cowering got us to the table and while there we told them what we wanted....instead of listening to what they wanted...Dairy, egg, poultry Cartel's are one of those contentions, it has many pluses and well as many negatives...the consumer pays to keep these guys in business...and we as a nation should be looking at this entire issue, once more...it is another example of one industry being favored over all the rest.... We do need more partners for everything, But saying that USA will always be a largest trading partner...and that relationship should be our number one priority...Our current economical leverage is declining every day we have tariffs... Trump cares about one thing and one thing only...THE US....and he is readjusting the way things were , by doing things like forcing NATO to beef up their military, instead of relying on US troops and equipment.. not just NATO but all across the US defensive packs...The US is tired of paying the bills....economically, he is forcing nations to invest in the US.. while US industry has fled the nation, in favor of profits....he is forcing them to come back... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: C’mon, you don’t throw away all that we’ve achieved and built in Canada just because of Trudeau’s governments. I agree that 2015-2025 was a lost decade for Canada. J Trudeau was the worst PM in my lifetime, probably in the history of Canada, but we had a very well-run, thriving country under Harper, better functioning than the U.S., and for about half of his leadership we were wealthier than Americans. Canada can correct course. I am sorry brother but we need to face the fact that your last statement there is probably not true. I don't think you appreciate how badly trudeau damaged the country. Economically and in may other ways. The 'other ways' might possibly heal over time but the economic damage is foundational. And carney is making it worse. The amount of money being borrowed is going to permanently cripple us very quickly. Within a few years we literally will be unable to recover from the kind of debt that he's talking about shy of literally declaring bankruptcy and starting again and accepting a much lower standard of life Business is not going to invest here. And I don't honestly believe he's even trying I think he's out there selling his own brand right now and not trying to boost the fortunes of Canada. I don't believe that you and many other Canadians realize how bad this is. People look at the projected 1% GDP growth and think that's really bad but it's not the end of the world but you don't see what's underneath those numbers. I'm afraid all that we've achieved has probably already been thrown away. At least for the next two generations. If we get rid of Carney in the immediate future and I do mean immediate and start doing all of the right things then maybe we can keep that to one generation But that's not likely. I'm afraid Canada might very well be a lost cause and I see very little to give me hope otherwise Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Zeitgeist Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: I am sorry brother but we need to face the fact that your last statement there is probably not true. I don't think you appreciate how badly trudeau damaged the country. Economically and in may other ways. The 'other ways' might possibly heal over time but the economic damage is foundational. And carney is making it worse. The amount of money being borrowed is going to permanently cripple us very quickly. Within a few years we literally will be unable to recover from the kind of debt that he's talking about shy of literally declaring bankruptcy and starting again and accepting a much lower standard of life Business is not going to invest here. And I don't honestly believe he's even trying I think he's out there selling his own brand right now and not trying to boost the fortunes of Canada. I don't believe that you and many other Canadians realize how bad this is. People look at the projected 1% GDP growth and think that's really bad but it's not the end of the world but you don't see what's underneath those numbers. I'm afraid all that we've achieved has probably already been thrown away. At least for the next two generations. If we get rid of Carney in the immediate future and I do mean immediate and start doing all of the right things then maybe we can keep that to one generation But that's not likely. I'm afraid Canada might very well be a lost cause and I see very little to give me hope otherwise Well there are some fundamentals going for Canada: Our society is still less polarized than the U.S. (though it reached an all time low under Trudeau), our debt to gdp ratio is still around the best in the G7 (though our household and gross debt is very worrisome), our banking system is still among the most stable in the world, healthcare represents a smaller burden on our gdp than the U.S., we have perhaps the best educated population, we have a staggering amount of natural resources, we’re expanding our military and economic infrastructure, and we have centres of excellence in agriculture, AI, and a pretty wide range of industries. All the potential is there. Yup it’s a big hole we’re in, but if you remember the early 90’s, we had high debt, high unemployment, and a low dollar. It took less than a decade to really turn us around. By the mid to late 2000’s we had about the best economy in the G7. The lesson is that you can never stop being careful. “Under Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Canada’s federal debt has more than doubled, increasing from approximately $616 billion in 2015 to an estimated $1.24 trillion as of late 2024.” Edited February 1 by Zeitgeist Quote
eyeball Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: I'm afraid Canada might very well be a lost cause and I see very little to give me hope otherwise People around much of the world feel the same way about their countries - angst has gone global. What makes yours so special? 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Well there are some fundamentals going for Canada: Our society is still less polarized than the U.S. (though it reached an all time low under Trudeau), our debt to gdp ratio is still around the best in the G7 (though our household and gross debt is very worrisome), our banking system is still among the most stable in the world, healthcare represents a smaller burden on our gdp than the U.S., we have perhaps the best educated population, we have a staggering amount of natural resources, we’re expanding our military and economic infrastructure, and we have centres of excellence in agriculture, AI, and a pretty wide range of industries. All the potential is there. Yup it’s a big hole we’re in, but if you remember the early 90’s, we had high debt, high unemployment, and a low dollar. It took less than a decade to really turn us around. By the mid to late 2000’s we had about the best economy in the G7. The lesson is that you can never stop being careful. “Under Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Canada’s federal debt has more than doubled, increasing from approximately $616 billion in 2015 to an estimated $1.24 trillion as of late 2024.” It's long so i bolded the key points for those who wish to skim it. Sure, I remember. And it was the late 80s more than anything when they said it was going to be almost impossible to recover financially and we were talking about the "plague of the black debt" And sure, thanks to mulroney's gST and free trade agreement we dodged a bullet. The liberals would take credit for it of course but at the end of the day we recovered. But this is substantially worse than that. Business never gave up on Canada during that time and when things got going business investment flooded back. Well we suffered we suffered along with the world and we didn't lose ground to them. Now we are falling so far behind that catching up seems almost impossible. And while there are countries with worse debt to gdps when you actually take a look at the provincial debt and the federal debt combined we are in bad shape. And worse it's accelerating under carney, not getting better. The problem between this and a regular downturn is that with a regular downturn it's like a fire that's starting to burn down. But the Embers are still there and if you throw a little wood on when times get better it flares right back up. But our Embers are dying. Look up what we've lost and where we're at We're losing manufacturing and there's no replacement. That's one of the major economic drivers for Canada. We are severely overtaxed and it will be extremely difficult to back that off, and I don't just mean federal. Write down to the municipal level taxes are an impediment to business We don't like each other. Quebec doesn't want anything to do with the rest of Canada, BC is mad at Alberta, Alberta is mad at everybody except Saskatchewan, Saskatchewan will happily cut the throat of any of its neighbors to satisfy its own needs, ontario has always been one of the most stuck-up self-centered places in the entire known universe and I'm including black holes with that, and the maritimes are both clueless and powerless Our resource business has been crippled by the liberals and there is nothing we can do to fix that without taking the next 10 to 20 years to do so and frankly I don't think carney has any interest in actually moving any of that forward soon. I will bet you dollars to Donuts there are no shovels going into the ground this year for a pipeline. Build baby build was a lie Now add to that that we've lost our largest trading partner substantially and nobody else anywhere around the world is showing any real interest and taking us on as a major partner except possibly for china who just basically wants to own us And backing all of this is a debt level so high across all of the provincial and federal levels that a very large and substantial portion of our tax income has to go just to service interest on the debt. And god help us if interest rates go up again, because if we ever saw 7 or 10% like we did in the 80s it would absolutely cripple and destroy our ability to deliver services regardless of our tax rates within 5 years And business investment is fleeing the country. Not just coming in slower but exiting. We've been through tough times before. But the liberals have left us so crippled and so hurt and so unable to respond That even if we do the right things now recovery is probably 10 to 20 years away. And that's just to get us back to where we were. And what do you think the chances are during those 10 to 20 years that the liberals get back into power and spend their time siphoning the money away from Canada like they did during the last 10 years I don't know that this is recoverable but I wish to hell I was wrong but I just don't see the path Edited February 1 by CdnFox Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 8 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I don't know that this is recoverable but I wish to hell I was wrong but I just don't see the path 3rd quarter numbers are just in for 2025, the wealth gap grew faster than ever👍 Don't worry, be happy! Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 2 hours ago, eyeball said: People around much of the world feel the same way Not even a little bit. I know that's a lie that you liberals and lefties love to try it out but it's absolutely a lie. The kids see it here in Canada. They know they're screwed. They're frustrated and they're sad. Kids in other countries think that they are going to have it rough but they think that they can get through it and it's not a complete disaster. But in Canada they know they are lost No. It's not other countries. It's here Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Zeitgeist Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 10 hours ago, CdnFox said: It's long so i bolded the key points for those who wish to skim it. Sure, I remember. And it was the late 80s more than anything when they said it was going to be almost impossible to recover financially and we were talking about the "plague of the black debt" And sure, thanks to mulroney's gST and free trade agreement we dodged a bullet. The liberals would take credit for it of course but at the end of the day we recovered. But this is substantially worse than that. Business never gave up on Canada during that time and when things got going business investment flooded back. Well we suffered we suffered along with the world and we didn't lose ground to them. Now we are falling so far behind that catching up seems almost impossible. And while there are countries with worse debt to gdps when you actually take a look at the provincial debt and the federal debt combined we are in bad shape. And worse it's accelerating under carney, not getting better. The problem between this and a regular downturn is that with a regular downturn it's like a fire that's starting to burn down. But the Embers are still there and if you throw a little wood on when times get better it flares right back up. But our Embers are dying. Look up what we've lost and where we're at We're losing manufacturing and there's no replacement. That's one of the major economic drivers for Canada. We are severely overtaxed and it will be extremely difficult to back that off, and I don't just mean federal. Write down to the municipal level taxes are an impediment to business We don't like each other. Quebec doesn't want anything to do with the rest of Canada, BC is mad at Alberta, Alberta is mad at everybody except Saskatchewan, Saskatchewan will happily cut the throat of any of its neighbors to satisfy its own needs, ontario has always been one of the most stuck-up self-centered places in the entire known universe and I'm including black holes with that, and the maritimes are both clueless and powerless Our resource business has been crippled by the liberals and there is nothing we can do to fix that without taking the next 10 to 20 years to do so and frankly I don't think carney has any interest in actually moving any of that forward soon. I will bet you dollars to Donuts there are no shovels going into the ground this year for a pipeline. Build baby build was a lie Now add to that that we've lost our largest trading partner substantially and nobody else anywhere around the world is showing any real interest and taking us on as a major partner except possibly for china who just basically wants to own us And backing all of this is a debt level so high across all of the provincial and federal levels that a very large and substantial portion of our tax income has to go just to service interest on the debt. And god help us if interest rates go up again, because if we ever saw 7 or 10% like we did in the 80s it would absolutely cripple and destroy our ability to deliver services regardless of our tax rates within 5 years And business investment is fleeing the country. Not just coming in slower but exiting. We've been through tough times before. But the liberals have left us so crippled and so hurt and so unable to respond That even if we do the right things now recovery is probably 10 to 20 years away. And that's just to get us back to where we were. And what do you think the chances are during those 10 to 20 years that the liberals get back into power and spend their time siphoning the money away from Canada like they did during the last 10 years I don't know that this is recoverable but I wish to hell I was wrong but I just don't see the path Those are imported points that bring a sense of urgency to improving the country, and there are clear paths to follow to do this. The challenge is that much of our media, education, and court systems have been ideologically captured by the left. I do think the majority of Canadians see the mess Trudeau left behind. Carney is getting a kick at the can to clean it up, but he should be on a short leash. If he continues the same reckless overspending and identity politics, I hope Canadians show him the door. It’s not going to be easy for any Canadian PM right now though. Quote
eyeball Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 11 hours ago, CdnFox said: No. It's not other countries. It's here We rank 18 out of 195 on the 2025 happiness scale. Marginally behind Switzerland and ahead of the US. It's a wonder you can even drag yourself out of bed in the mornings. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Those are imported points that bring a sense of urgency to improving the country, and there are clear paths to follow to do this. The challenge is that much of our media, education, and court systems have been ideologically captured by the left. I do think the majority of Canadians see the mess Trudeau left behind. Carney is getting a kick at the can to clean it up, but he should be on a short leash. If he continues the same reckless overspending and identity politics, I hope Canadians show him the door. It’s not going to be easy for any Canadian PM right now though. IF he continues? Dude, he's spending vastly more than Trudeau did. He's already off that leash, across the yard, over the fence and into the neighbour's chicken coop. I don't know. i just don't see the paths you're mentioning. I think even if carney did things right which he absolutely is NOT doing or going to do we're in trouble for a long time. What paths do you see to resolving the issues? They're fundamentally interconnected, You can't solve our manufacturing without creating investment, no investment without better economy, no better economy without moar investment, etc etc. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Zeitgeist Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 51 minutes ago, CdnFox said: IF he continues? Dude, he's spending vastly more than Trudeau did. He's already off that leash, across the yard, over the fence and into the neighbour's chicken coop. I don't know. i just don't see the paths you're mentioning. I think even if carney did things right which he absolutely is NOT doing or going to do we're in trouble for a long time. What paths do you see to resolving the issues? They're fundamentally interconnected, You can't solve our manufacturing without creating investment, no investment without better economy, no better economy without moar investment, etc etc. The Conservatives wouldn’t be able to do much more much faster without a strong majority. The most immediate need is to replace all the lost exports resulting from Trump’s tariffs, which is why, for example, the feds are looking at S Korean subs because part of the deal includes the steel supply coming from Algoma. It’s a good time to do infrastructure projects like pipelines, ports and high speed rail not just because it will add markets and productivity, but because the materials used to construct these projects can come from our idled mills and workers. It’s adding debt, but we’re going to have to put these people on EI and close plants if we don’t build now. It’s another reason we should have manufacturing and materials supply in Canada conditions in all our trade deals, even if in some cases it can only be partial. So you’re right, debt is bad, but sometimes it’s unavoidable, so we should spend that borrowed money wisely and eliminate unnecessary programs. Trudeau bloated our government beyond belief. Quote
CdnFox Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: The Conservatives wouldn’t be able to do much more much faster without a strong majority. Well, they probably be fine with a weak majority, but carney has basically had that. He basically told everyone to f off and dared them to vote against his budget knowing none of them supported it. He's only tried to pass one entire bill in his entire time. 7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: The most immediate need is to replace all the lost exports resulting from Trump’s tariff That is just simply speaking not possible. Not in less than 10 to 15 years. And by then it would be too late. I mean they should do what they can, every little bit helps. But that is not getting us out of the situation. 7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: It’s a good time to do infrastructure projects like pipelines, ports and high speed rail not just because it will add markets and productivity, but because the materials used to construct these projects can come from our idled mills and workers. Sure but he's not doing any of that. All he did was spend a bunch of money forming yet another bureaucracy that we didn't need in order to green light projects that were already greenlit and moving forward and are not moving forward any faster now than they were before. If he was serious he would have killed the anti pipeline laws and sent a strong signal instead of this useless magic fairy zone law that the companies have come right out and said they don't believe in. 7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: So you’re right, debt is bad, but sometimes it’s unavoidable, so we should spend that borrowed money wisely and eliminate unnecessary programs. We are way beyond that. That was the solution 5 years ago. And then it would have been long and tedious because the damage was significant. But right now nobody anywhere is interested in investing substantial amounts of money in canada, our productivity is crashing to all time lows, our gdp per capita has dropped from about 5 to about 30 and is still falling which means our ability to raise taxes for services is flushing down the drain. Meanwhile the debt is consuming more and more of what tax revenues we CAN create. I know you're not a huge fan of carne or anything but honestly I don't think people truly understand how screwed we are and that this isn't like the usual liberals racking up a bit of debt and oh we're going to have hard times but we'll get through it kind of thing. the only thing that turns this around is massive slashing of red tape law, tax changes that tell business we want to see them, an actual home construction plan that would actually work (and yes there is one) and a public plan to bring us back to balance in a modest time frame, say 5 -6 years. Combined with the feds getting down right pushy on interprovincial trade. And a brutally serious effort to attract foreign business, not going around for photo ops and pissing off donald with speaches that make it HARDER to do a deal. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Zeitgeist Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) On 2/1/2026 at 11:54 PM, CdnFox said: Well, they probably be fine with a weak majority, but carney has basically had that. He basically told everyone to f off and dared them to vote against his budget knowing none of them supported it. He's only tried to pass one entire bill in his entire time. That is just simply speaking not possible. Not in less than 10 to 15 years. And by then it would be too late. I mean they should do what they can, every little bit helps. But that is not getting us out of the situation. Sure but he's not doing any of that. All he did was spend a bunch of money forming yet another bureaucracy that we didn't need in order to green light projects that were already greenlit and moving forward and are not moving forward any faster now than they were before. If he was serious he would have killed the anti pipeline laws and sent a strong signal instead of this useless magic fairy zone law that the companies have come right out and said they don't believe in. We are way beyond that. That was the solution 5 years ago. And then it would have been long and tedious because the damage was significant. But right now nobody anywhere is interested in investing substantial amounts of money in canada, our productivity is crashing to all time lows, our gdp per capita has dropped from about 5 to about 30 and is still falling which means our ability to raise taxes for services is flushing down the drain. Meanwhile the debt is consuming more and more of what tax revenues we CAN create. I know you're not a huge fan of carne or anything but honestly I don't think people truly understand how screwed we are and that this isn't like the usual liberals racking up a bit of debt and oh we're going to have hard times but we'll get through it kind of thing. the only thing that turns this around is massive slashing of red tape law, tax changes that tell business we want to see them, an actual home construction plan that would actually work (and yes there is one) and a public plan to bring us back to balance in a modest time frame, say 5 -6 years. Combined with the feds getting down right pushy on interprovincial trade. And a brutally serious effort to attract foreign business, not going around for photo ops and pissing off donald with speaches that make it HARDER to do a deal. I don’t really disagree in general, but here’s the bottom line: Either we’re sticking with having our own independent sovereign Canada or we’re not, and not, realistically, means joining the U.S. There are arguments to be made for joining the U.S., but Canadians have to decide that. Right now the majority consensus is for us to remain a sovereign nation. It’s in that context that we have to try to convince people and get politicians elected who can fix our problems. We’d be doing much the same as part of the U.S. Would they be better or worse problems? Not sure. I still don’t like Canada’s cultural and political direction. The overspending on government programs and woke identity politics, throwing our culture and industries under the bus, are wrongheaded and disgusting. I understand the frustration. I just think there’s no choice but to set about fixing things, and it’s a gargantuan task. Edited February 3 by Zeitgeist Quote
CdnFox Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I don’t really disagree in general, but here’s the bottom line: Either we’re sticking with having our own independent sovereign Canada or we’re not, and not, realistically, means joining the U.S. There are arguments to be made for joining the U.S., but Canadians have to decide that. Right now the majority consensus is for us to remain a sovereign nation. It’s in that context that we have to try to convince people and get politicians elected who can fix our problems. We’d be doing much the same as part of the U.S. Would they be better or worse problems? Not sure. I still don’t like Canada’s cultural and political direction. The overspending on government programs and woke identity politics, throwing our culture and industries under the bus, are wrongheaded and disgusting. I understand the frustration. I just think there’s no choice but to set about fixing things, and it’s a gargantuan task. well as you say all we can do is change directions and make an effort. It just breaks my heart a little to know that even if we do the kids are going to have a worse life than they should have and we will probably never see the canada we knew as far as our position on the world stage and world economy. But, we can make things better and if that's the best we can do we should do that at least. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Zeitgeist Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 6 hours ago, CdnFox said: well as you say all we can do is change directions and make an effort. It just breaks my heart a little to know that even if we do the kids are going to have a worse life than they should have and we will probably never see the canada we knew as far as our position on the world stage and world economy. But, we can make things better and if that's the best we can do we should do that at least. Well let’s see. We haven’t seen the full potential of automation and AI. How it’s managed by governments and whether its benefits reach the masses is to be determined. I just get sick of seeing us continue to do foolish naive things. The latest is McGuinty saying Canada isn’t pursuing nuclear weapons. Is this man stupid? 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: The latest is McGuinty saying Canada isn’t pursuing nuclear weapons. Is this man stupid? Heh well i don't think we'll need AI to figure that question out... 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
ironstone Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) Some news from Canada's new strategic partner: Jimmy Lai sentenced to 20 years in prison over Hong Kong national security case 78-year-old convicted of foreign collusion, conspiracy charges; several other journalists also sentenced Jimmy Lai, the pro-democracy former Hong Kong media tycoon and a fierce critic of Beijing, was sentenced to 20 years in prison in one of the most prominent cases prosecuted under a China-imposed national security law that has virtually silenced the city's dissent. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jimmy-lai-sentenced-hong-kong-national-security-case-9.7080352 A tiny peep of protest from Anita Anand, and that will be about it from the Carney government. Canada is going to try and accommodate China while China is...not going to change. Edited February 10 by ironstone Quote Beware the Brookfield industrial complex...
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