WestCanMan Posted January 16 Report Posted January 16 Right now Carney is so desperate to get a trade deal signed with someone, anyone, that he'd sell his children to the ayatollah for some buttons. Ford's not quite in the same boat though: This trade war is happening one step above his pay grade, so he's partly a bystander in it, like the rest of us he didn't get elected entirely on the basis of handling US-Canada trade it wasn't Ontario PC's who started this feud with Trump, it was the LPOC, so he's distanced from that aspect as well from Ford's POV, there's an unwillingness to stick his thumb in Trump's eye like that regarding the auto industry, of all things. The Ontario economy can't fall back on fisheries, oil, agriculture, etc, like Carney's can. The auto sector is Ont's meal ticket this deal with China is not only a direct shot across the bow of the NA auto sector, it also flies in the face of Trump's stance against China. It's got political suicide written all over it for an Ontario premiere to pull this stunt against Trump Carney can still count on the CBC to back him no matter how foolish he looks in all this, but the CBC is always looking for conservative blood to spill, so a similar mistake by ford will translate into another public flogging by the CBC. As bad as it is for Carney to pull a stunt like this, it would be far worse for Ford to go down that same path. Like, orders of magnitude worse. This is just another one of the problems with having a "leader" like Trudeau or Carney. Their ineffectiveness doesn't just hurt Canadians, and drive Canadians apart, it also drives a wedge between the provinces and between each province and the government. Canada is fracturing like a glass in a Loony Toons skit. You can just see the spiderweb growing at a steady, predictable path, to a pre-determined outcome, with Elmer Fudd's frowning face in the background. 1 Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
eyeball Posted January 16 Report Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: Well, ok ... but you're falling into the trap of thinking politicians have a solid principle that they're following, rather than looking at the day's polling. Something Carney said "We take the world as it is, not as we wish it to be." comes about as close to one that's congruent with the times. Ironically enough it verges on bring unprincipled too given the fact we're bound to be stuck having to hold our noses a few times. I guess it'll be up to each consumer or supplier to place ethical premiums and discounts as they see fit. It's not like we haven't been doing that with other super-rogues. Now people just shit on one another for their economic choices. Tesla's, Stellantis, and BYDs will all be subject to being keyed and kicked. 2 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted January 16 Report Posted January 16 2 hours ago, herbie said: Ford is thinking two things - stand up for Cdn auto workers - kars is kars.... Seeing as how we don't build EVs here that cost sub $40K and the Big 3 are running away from that market as fast as they can.... what does it matter? Because if a lower price option that doesn't cost $40,000 is available more people will go for that and fewer will go for the $40,000. And this is a stepping stone. If these cars are popular people will demand more of them be available and more and more Chinese cars will come onto the market. It's very hard to put that Genie back in the bottle I would never have thought I would see you coming out for policies that hurt workers I'm the average person, I always thought you were kind of more of a union guy 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
blackbird Posted January 17 Author Report Posted January 17 Automakers in Canada manufacture from 1.4 million to 1.9 million vehicles in Canada. This deal with China to get them to take the massive tariffs off of canola and other things in exchange for allowing China to ship 49,000 EVs to Canada was a good deal for Canada. 49,000 is only about 3% or less of the number of cars manufactured in Canada. The canola industry is a major industry supporting tens of thousands of jobs. Every deal requires give and take. Canada got a good deal with this. Ford and the like should quit complaining about nothing. 2 Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 A deal with China was always going to be painful. Overall, Carney probably hurt himself politically by hurting Ontario and helping farmers but that’s what he’s supposed to do - govern in the national interest for everybody including those who didn’t vote for him. Of course, Ford was always going to complain. Canada would a lot easier to run if we didn’t have 13 guys and gals who think they’re as important as the PM. BYD is already the biggest EV car maker in the world. We need to stay familiar with what they are producing and toughen our guys up because the competition is only going to get hotter. In a sane world we’d be working with the US, Europe, Japan etc to force China to revalue its currency and produce these goods at a fair rate but Trump has upended all that. He seems to have it in for us and Greenland far more than for China. 2 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 5 hours ago, Goddess said: There's some kind of agreement involving pet food. Don't forget about that!We're gonna be soooooooo rich! Oh well, in that case I'm totally voting liberal next time Quote I think they check their stock portfolios before the day's polling. I'm not even sure they check the days polling anymore. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: A deal with China was always going to be painful. Overall, Carney probably hurt himself politically by hurting Ontario and helping farmers but that’s what he’s supposed to do - govern in the national interest for everybody including those who didn’t vote for him. But he didn't get a deal that was particularly good for farmers. He didn't even get a guarantee as to how much the tariffs would be rolled back, he's expecting or hoping that they'll still be a 15% Tariff What he supposed to do is get a good deal for everybody, not screw over one part of the economy and drive it in the ground to help another part of the economy, because that really doesn't help us in the long run. Especially seeing as the deal won't even last past 2026 Quote Of course, Ford was always going to complain. Canada would a lot easier to run if we didn’t have 13 guys and gals who think they’re as important as the PM. They actually are as important as the PM. I hate to break it to you but the constitution does not put the federal government above the provincial governments it puts them on equal footing. Ffs I know, that whole democracy thing is just so inconvenient Quote BYD is already the biggest EV car maker in the world. We need to stay familiar with what they are producing and toughen our guys up because the competition is only going to get hotter. In a sane world we’d be working with the US, Europe, Japan etc to force China to revalue its currency and produce these goods at a fair rate but Trump has upended all that. He seems to have it in for us and Greenland far more than for China . Then why did we put restrictions in the first place? Here's the deal. We have a massive car industry in Canada that employs a crap ton of people in our largest province. It also supplies a significant portion of our government revenue. All those services and jobs you left these love, the auto industry pays for a lot of that So a deal that hurts our auto industry without getting us something in return that increases our abilities equally is very bad for Canada. We have a deal now that will severely impact negatively the automotive industry, and we really got nothing for it. There's still tariffs on our agricultural products, there's absolutely no guarantee that they won't raise them again the next week, it hasn't opened up a new market we were already selling this stuff to the chinese and the benefit to us does not come out greater than the disadvantage financially. So if this is the deal we got screwed. China gets to keep tariff money, and now has the right to sell us cars and their industries make money that they weren't making before. Meanwhile we'll sell slightly less than we used to and we get nothing for that privilege and meanwhile our automotive industry is going to take a hit This isn't a good deal for us 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 One of the big criticisms I'm seeing around the web is that Scott Moe went on this trip with the pm and got a saying things where is Doug Ford stayed at home and just hoped that his besties for resties mark carney wouldn't screw him over. He's trying to act all angry now but I don't know that it's selling as well as it normally does 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
blackbird Posted January 17 Author Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: But he didn't get a deal that was particularly good for farmers. He didn't even get a guarantee as to how much the tariffs would be rolled back, he's expecting or hoping that they'll still be a 15% Tariff What he supposed to do is get a good deal for everybody, not screw over one part of the economy and drive it in the ground to help another part of the economy, because that really doesn't help us in the long run. Especially seeing as the deal won't even last past 2026 They actually are as important as the PM. I hate to break it to you but the constitution does not put the federal government above the provincial governments it puts them on equal footing. Ffs I know, that whole democracy thing is just so inconvenient . Then why did we put restrictions in the first place? Here's the deal. We have a massive car industry in Canada that employs a crap ton of people in our largest province. It also supplies a significant portion of our government revenue. All those services and jobs you left these love, the auto industry pays for a lot of that So a deal that hurts our auto industry without getting us something in return that increases our abilities equally is very bad for Canada. We have a deal now that will severely impact negatively the automotive industry, and we really got nothing for it. There's still tariffs on our agricultural products, there's absolutely no guarantee that they won't raise them again the next week, it hasn't opened up a new market we were already selling this stuff to the chinese and the benefit to us does not come out greater than the disadvantage financially. So if this is the deal we got screwed. China gets to keep tariff money, and now has the right to sell us cars and their industries make money that they weren't making before. Meanwhile we'll sell slightly less than we used to and we get nothing for that privilege and meanwhile our automotive industry is going to take a hit This isn't a good deal for us Actually it is a very good deal. The 49,000 EVs are only less than 3% of the number of cars manufactured in Canada. So the deal will have negligible effect on the auto industry, but will save our canola industry. 1 Quote
herbie Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 Oh FFS #1 EV sales are not tanking, they dropped from 9.4 to 9,2% not "off a cliff" like some tailpipe sniffers act like. Mainly due to the ending of incentives, high prices and availability problems. #2 We don't make any EVs here in Canada! Hybrids sales are soaring, things we do make and China isn't sending. We have cold weather, snow and even longer distances between major. cities. Go try to find an AWD pure EV and wish you could afford it. Hybrids will outsell ICE only vehicles by 2030. 2 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, blackbird said: Actually it is a very good deal. Well you're wrong. Quote The 49,000 EVs are only less than 3% of the number of cars manufactured in Canada. So the deal will have negligible effect on the auto industry, but will save our canola industry. Again you're wrong on two counts. First off it was described in the press release as the initial number. Initial. There will be more and they will grow in number Secondly there was no time frame given. Now if that's over the next 10 years it's minimal if it's over the next 6 months that's different. If the deal is "as fast as you can sell them bthen we'll do the next batch". that's not so good. Further it doesn't save the canola industry at all. There's absolutely no guarantees or anything in writing about that, which means every single time they want to sell more all they have to do is threaten the canola industry Did you honestly believe that china was going to drop its tariffs for a lousy 40 or 50,000 cars? Could you possibly have been so naive as to think that wasn't just the first batch? Dude, give your head a shake. This is to test the market and see whether or not it's worth them selling more and more and possibly doing some species of assembly in Canada and also to measure how badly the Americans are going to freak out More of these cars are coming and it will cost Canadian jobs. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Barquentine Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 19 hours ago, CdnFox said: Sadly that's not the case. We don't even get anything guaranteed out of this deal Give me a break! All you guys have been doing is whining: "Carney can't get any deals" "Where's the results?" And now that he's got a deal that will help most provinces, you're still whining. Agriculture - how many provinces does that help? Seafood - how many provinces does that help? More transport of goods- railway and port business - how many provinces does that help? WTF is wrong with you? If Peepee had made this deal, you'd be creamin' your jeans! 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 7 hours ago, Barquentine said: Give me a break! Hold out your arm Quote All you guys have been doing is whining: "Carney can't get any deals" "Where's the results?" And now that he's got a deal that will help most provinces, you're still whining. We kind of wanted him to get a deal for us not the Chinese. And you're 100% wrong. We have not been screaming about deals we've been screaming about making things better. He said he'd make the situation with trump better, instead it's gotten considerably worse. He said he would make housing better but it's getting worse. He said he would make investment in Canada better and it's getting worse. He said he would increase trade with foreign nations and this deal does not do that, it makes us buy more from other people not them by more from us. The point was to make it so that we sold more products to others and he hasn't even gotten all of the tariffs off of our products. And we don't even have a deal for those tariffs, they can put them back on tomorrow we should have to let them sell cars I don't give a crap whether he does one deal or a million deals, I care about whether or not canadians are better off. Are we selling more product to other people, are we getting more jobs, is our economy growing, are we getting the kind of investment we need. And all you losers can do is pretend that somehow what canadians have been saying is "we want to see you do a deal even if it benefits someone else instead". Yeah - NOBODY said they wanted that 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Legato Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 7 hours ago, Barquentine said: Give me a break! All you guys have been doing is whining: "Carney can't get any deals" "Where's the results?" And now that he's got a deal that will help most provinces, you're still whining. Agriculture - how many provinces does that help? Seafood - how many provinces does that help? More transport of goods- railway and port business - how many provinces does that help? WTF is wrong with you? If Peepee had made this deal, you'd be creamin' your jeans! Canada expects the tariffs to be lowered by March 1st. Will be good if they do, lets wait and see. Quote
CdnFox Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 3 hours ago, Legato said: Canada expects the tariffs to be lowered by March 1st. Will be good if they do, lets wait and see. I ger angry every time i see that - "expects". How did we give something up in writing that's specific and locked in and they gave us a "probably, you can expect it" with no future guarantees? 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Barquentine Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 15 hours ago, CdnFox said: Are we selling more product to other people Agriculture. Seafood. It's a good start. Lots of money there. 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 5 hours ago, Barquentine said: Agriculture. Seafood. It's a good start. Lots of money there. It's not a good start, we got none of that in writing. And there will still be significant tariffs on our agriculture including 25% on pork and that's if they keep their word. And there's nothing to prohibit them from raising it all again tomorrow if we don't do it they want. It would still be a poor deal if those things were committed in writing, if we were guaranteed the tariffs would be lowered to a certain point and stay there. But at least it would be a deal. Our farmers could move forward with a certain level of certainty. But right now we don't even know for sure what the tariffs will be reduced to and there is absolutely no deal that they won't go up again the next day It's not a good start. It's barely even worth calling a start. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
ironstone Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 1/17/2026 at 9:39 AM, Barquentine said: WTF is wrong with you? If Peepee had made this deal, you'd be creamin' your jeans! If Poilievre had won, I think he would have reached a deal with the US in short order. So far, the 'Trump whisperer' has failed miserably. Do you think that with this supposed new great deal with China, the CCP will no longer take Canadians as hostages as they see fit? How much this deal will benefit Canada, if at all, remains to be seen. I believe the CCP is very pleased with even more access to Carney. Quote Beware the Brookfield industrial complex...
Army Guy Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 1/16/2026 at 11:59 AM, Politics1990 said: hes just being a twat. annoyed about 49000 chineese ev's lol what a fool YA i mean who really cares about good paying Canadian jobs any ways, just another road block to navigate........OH wait a minute he's the premier of Ontario home of the auto sector.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 1/16/2026 at 12:21 PM, ExFlyer said: Fact is... Carney made a deal for Canada and Canadians. Ford is pi$$ed because it affects auto workers in Ontario The fact is there are far more Canadians in the agriculture sector than in the auto sector. "In Canada, the agriculture and agri-food sector employs significantly more people (2.3 million in 2024) than the automotive sector (approximately 125,000 direct workers in 2024" "Agriculture: This figure accounts for the entire agriculture and agri-food value chain, providing approximately 1 in every 9 jobs in Canada. The primary agriculture industry alone employed around 256,400 workers in 2023. A significant portion of the workforce includes temporary foreign workers, accounting for nearly one in four agricultural employees" "Automotive Sector: This includes jobs in motor vehicle assembly and parts manufacturing. The industry also supports an additional 427,000 indirect jobs through related services like aftermarket and dealership networks. Ontario is the primary employer, accounting for 82% of all auto workers in the country." Your numbers are full of shit, NOT all farmers or workers in that industry are effected by Chinas tariffs...it is only on certain products, canola seeds, nothing has moved on Canola oil...and 40,000 farmers grow Canola. And since Canadian love cheap sh!t it will mean 49,000 less car or trucks that were made in Canada or the US will be sold...which adds to less jobs...in an already hurting industry.. The way you dismiss that in order to protect your man Carney is disturbing...Considering China is the number one threat to our nation...According to your man Carney...what's next we start trading with Russia... https://www.canolacouncil.org/about-canola/industry/ Quote Growing canola Canola is grown by approximately 40,000 Canadian farmers who produce about 20 million tonnes of canola annually. Canola is now one of the most widely grown crops in Canada, generating about one-quarter of all farm crop receipts. Every year, approximately 20 million acres of Canadian farmland turn brilliant yellow as canola comes into bloom. The crop is primarily grown in the western provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Some canola is also grown in British Columbia, Ontario and Quebec. Although canola acreage has remained fairly steady over the past decade, total production has increased because of increases in average yield. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 1/16/2026 at 3:16 PM, ExFlyer said: OK...we get electric cars The US is pi$$ed off but who cares. https://www.reuters.com/world/china/canada-china-set-make-historic-gains-new-partnership-says-carney-2026-01-16/ In Case you forgot 80% of Canadian trade is done through the US....while 3.9 % is done with China....So it does matter who we pi$$ off... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
blackbird Posted January 22 Author Report Posted January 22 8 minutes ago, Army Guy said: In Case you forgot 80% of Canadian trade is done through the US....while 3.9 % is done with China....So it does matter who we pi$$ off... Trump is shafting us. That's why the government is looking for more trade elsewhere. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 1/17/2026 at 1:35 AM, herbie said: Oh FFS #1 EV sales are not tanking, they dropped from 9.4 to 9,2% not "off a cliff" like some tailpipe sniffers act like. Mainly due to the ending of incentives, high prices and availability problems. #2 We don't make any EVs here in Canada! Hybrids sales are soaring, things we do make and China isn't sending. We have cold weather, snow and even longer distances between major. cities. Go try to find an AWD pure EV and wish you could afford it. Hybrids will outsell ICE only vehicles by 2030. EV sales are dropping....The fact you failed to mention most large car manufactures are stopping the production of EV or reducing numbers produced, add to the fact all those Battery plants that the Liberals invested in are now mostly gone along with those bils Canadian tax payers invested...The question is WHY if the market is so good ?...Feds already said they are not going to replace those rebates on EV's....But with Chinese EV they are so cheap you don't need rebates...Canadians will buy these up because they like cheap Chinese sh!t Quote Electric vehicles accounted for 13.7 per cent of total vehicle sales in 2024, but that share dropped earlier this year to an average of 8.1 per cent, according to Statistics Canada data. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/2025/11/05/the-ev-slowdown-are-canadians-losing-interest/ Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 7 minutes ago, blackbird said: Trump is shafting us. That's why the government is looking for more trade elsewhere. How so, According to Carney we have the best deal of all the western nations.....how is Trump shafting US, and what policies has trump made that are benefiting Canada.. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
ExFlyer Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your numbers are full of shit, NOT all farmers or workers in that industry are effected by Chinas tariffs...it is only on certain products, canola seeds, nothing has moved on Canola oil...and 40,000 farmers grow Canola. And since Canadian love cheap sh!t it will mean 49,000 less car or trucks that were made in Canada or the US will be sold...which adds to less jobs...in an already hurting industry.. The way you dismiss that in order to protect your man Carney is disturbing...Considering China is the number one threat to our nation...According to your man Carney...what's next we start trading with Russia... https://www.canolacouncil.org/about-canola/industry/ There was far more than canola in the agreement with china. In 2024, the entire agriculture and agri-food system employed approximately 2.3 million people, providing 1 in 9 jobs. In contrast, the Canadian automotive industry directly employed about 125,000–130,000 people, with a total, including supply chain and aftermarket services, of around 462,000 to 603,500 jobs. Breakdown of Key Sectors: Agri-Food & Aquaculture (Canada): Spans primary farming, food processing, transport, and retail, with 2.3 million jobs in 2023–2024. Automotive (Canada): Direct manufacturing employs roughly 125,000–176,900 people. Aquaculture (Global): Provides a massive, growing workforce that topped 22 million people by 2022. While the auto sector is a major economic driver, the food-related sectors employ a vastly larger segment of the workforce due to the foundational nature of food production and processing. You people are so hard over on 49K EV's from China. What not the Teslas which also come from China? We do not make them either?? " Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai produces Model 3s and Model Ys for both the Chinese market and export, serving as a major global supply hub, particularly for Europe and Asia, and for Canada" There was a lot more to the agreement than just Canol. In January 2026, Canada and China. reached a preliminary agreement-in-principle aimed at resetting their economic relationship and reducing trade barriers. Announced by Prime Minister Mark Carney following his visit to Beijing, the deal centers on a trade-off between electric vehicle (EV) imports and agricultural exports. Key Terms of the 2026 Agreement Electric Vehicles (EVs): Canada will allow up to 49,000 Chinese-made EVs to enter the country annually at a reduced tariff of 6.1% (reversing the 100% tariff implemented in 2024). By 2030, the agreement mandates that 50% of these imports must be "affordable EVs" priced under $35,000. Agriculture: In exchange, China agreed to lower or eliminate retaliatory tariffs on several key Canadian products starting March 1, 2026: Canola Seed: Tariffs will drop from roughly 84% to approximately 15%. Canola Meal, Peas, Lobster, and Crab: Anti-discrimination tariffs will be removed until at least the end of 2026. Steel and Aluminum: Canada will extend its tariff-remission program for certain Chinese steel and aluminum products through the end of 2026 to ensure domestic supply. Travel and Cooperation: China committed to introducing visa-free access for Canadians traveling to China. Both nations also signed memorandums of understanding (MOUs) to cooperate on energy, narcotics trafficking, and food safety. Context and Strategic Shift This agreement marks a significant departure from previous policies. In 2024, Canada had aligned with the U.S. to impose 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs to protect domestic industry. Prime Minister Carney described the new deal as "value-based realism," emphasizing the need to diversify trade partners as global tensions fluctuate. Reception Support: Agricultural producers, particularly in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, welcomed the deal as a critical restoration of market access valued at billions of dollars. Criticism: Ontario Premier Doug Ford and labor unions (such as Unifor) criticized the move, arguing it jeopardizes the Canadian auto sector and rewards "subsidized" Chinese competition. International Reaction: While U.S. President Donald Trump expressed initial support for the deal as a "good thing," other U.S. officials warned it might complicate the upcoming 2026 CUSMA (Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement) review. Edited January 22 by ExFlyer 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
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