CdnFox Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Do you intend to protect our car industry completely and indefinitely from Chinese competition? That rather Marxist proposal doesn’t sound like a good deal for consumers. First off I think you'll find the consumers do better in the long run when there's strong employment and the government is making good revenues from it. But you answer your question not necessarily no. But I wouldn't give it up without getting something in return China giving us a reduction, rather than the elimination, of tariffs on some of our food products in exchange for giving china a brand new market for their EVS in North America is not an equivalent exchange. The fact is china needs us for our oil and energy and coal. We had more chips to play and this was a bad deal for us. At the very least I would have said that the Evie's had to wait for a year or two or three to give us time to restructure the industry and the losses it would be good to pivot to something else Feels like this don't help us. Every Canadian is out of work but has cheap things to buy they're still poor 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 9 minutes ago, CdnFox said: First off I think you'll find the consumers do better in the long run when there's strong employment and the government is making good revenues from it. But you answer your question not necessarily no. But I wouldn't give it up without getting something in return China giving us a reduction, rather than the elimination, of tariffs on some of our food products in exchange for giving china a brand new market for their EVS in North America is not an equivalent exchange. The fact is china needs us for our oil and energy and coal. We had more chips to play and this was a bad deal for us. At the very least I would have said that the Evie's had to wait for a year or two or three to give us time to restructure the industry and the losses it would be good to pivot to something else Feels like this don't help us. Every Canadian is out of work but has cheap things to buy they're still poor I realize there are arguments on both sides and that China is a unique problem for the world with its trillion dollar plus trade surplus but I feel we should not exclude one of the tech leaders in EV, if not the leader already. Trade should continue as far as possible, 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
ExFlyer Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: Then why mention them at all? You did suggest they would all the impacted, and that was a lie. And you require a lie because the truth does not serve your purposes It would be like mentioning all people in manufacturing in Canada rather than just the automotive industry Pretending that this isn't a big deal it's just silly. The automotive sector is critical to Canada. Dismissing it as some sort of small or insignificant thing is childish Duhh, a cut and paste of what was negotiated.... Be real.... the auto sector is critical to Ontario.... the rest of Canada is not impacted. One province makes cars, at least 3 farm and 2 sell seafood. Man, when a LOSER like you tries as hard as you...it only proves you are a LOSER LOL LOL LOL 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
ExFlyer Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 10 hours ago, Army Guy said: Then why use that quote, those numbers are not relevant to the conversation are they....who cares how many farmers are in Canada the ones that are tariffed are the ones that grow Canola.. is that not what we are talking about ? ....And there are only 40,000 farmers that grow canola.... So what are you saying here the auto motive industry is failing lets kick them in the nuts sacrifice them for other industries....here is a thought, screw China and get other buyers for canola and sea food...keep that 3 % of our Auto sector intact..... So what are you saying AI, trumps all other sources....It is the quote you picked, own it....I get it very well , we should not being doing "any" business with China, They have screwed with us in the past, on top of took hostage two Canadians and executed Canadians for drug offenses, their human rights record is abysmal, along with Qatar's but who's counting we are in it for the money right.... is that what your implying...what's next are we going to start trading with Russia, Iran....that's where this is headed right....we don't care who we trade with now because the US is not a reliable trading partner...and yet the left was screaming about Israel moral values and screamed to have all trade be stopped immediately...but some how China is OK now.... below the source says the auto sector contributes more to GDP than Canola does....and your wonder why Ontario Premier is barking....and your implying it is OK to cut that by 3 % it does not make any sense....money wise... https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/report-challenges-canolas-43-billion-100048737.html Cut and paste form an AI generated response to the question if there are more agrifood workers than auto sector workers. You asked and I searched for the answer and gave it. Sorry if it hurt your sense of reality. Bottom line is the auto sector is Ontario...whereas farming and seafood exports affect many more provinces. As well, Ford, GM and Stellantis are closing plants, reducing shifts and moving from Ontario....that was before the China deal and even before Carney... they get relief money from Ontario and the feds, take it and bugger off anyway... why stick up for them, those workers are out of job.??? 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Barquentine Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 18 hours ago, ironstone said: If Poilievre had won, I think he would have reached a deal with the US in short order. Yeah, he would have bent over, spread and made a BAD deal. 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 9 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: A lot of people here need to see America as it is now under the current wretched leader and his ilk - in relative decline and no longer as close a friend as it was to us. Also we are not Americans despite our proximity. Some of you will deny those facts till your last breath but you won’t change them. Unfortunately that is the way it is now and will be for 3 more years. Canada cannot afford to wait it out. We have never been American and have never claimed to be but...our economy has revolved around and inexplicably been tied to the US. Now that we have to import, especially our food, from other countries, it is costing us more. Looking for new trrde partners is the smart thing. 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
ironstone Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 With this deal with China, at least Carney knows he will be able to rely on the continued support from the CCP during election time. 32 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Looking for new trrde partners is the smart thing. Not a bad thing to have more trading partners but it would be nice if they weren't dictatorships. And it would be nice if they weren't massive security threats to Canada either. More giant container ships crossing the oceans back and forth. 1 Quote Beware the Brookfield industrial complex...
Army Guy Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 3 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Cut and paste form an AI generated response to the question if there are more agrifood workers than auto sector workers. You asked and I searched for the answer and gave it. Sorry if it hurt your sense of reality. Bottom line is the auto sector is Ontario...whereas farming and seafood exports affect many more provinces. As well, Ford, GM and Stellantis are closing plants, reducing shifts and moving from Ontario....that was before the China deal and even before Carney... they get relief money from Ontario and the feds, take it and bugger off anyway... why stick up for them, those workers are out of job.??? More dishonesty, i did not ask for those stats, YOU and YOU alone provided them, even when they were irrelevant to the conversation... There are only 40,000 farmers who grew Canola last year, those are the people that will be effected by Chinese tariffs....not the entire industry, as your suggesting....Not sure why you can't see that, or your deliberately being dishonest.. That is the reality of this conversation, Chinese EV and those effected by Chinese tariffs... WOW, bottom line is you don't know what your talking about , car parts are made in various cities across Canada and the US...not just Ontario....Yes they have closed plants or reduced shifts....in reality that industry as it is right now grosses more to our GDP than Canola...it employs more than Canola, could ever dream off...and your take is well they are already hurting why not kick them in the nuts again....And i quote you said, they are going to lose their jobs anyways....so why stick up for them....And you say i'm the one out of touch with reality...every Canadian job needs to be fought for with this ongoing dispute with the US...Then there is China has already screwed us over many times in the past....And suddenly it is OK to start that relationship up again...That makes no sense....When Does Carney go to Russia and make a deal there....Seeing how we are now open for business to everyone... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 10 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Do you intend to protect our car industry completely and indefinitely from Chinese competition? That rather Marxist proposal doesn’t sound like a good deal for consumers. I know China’s industrial policies are a problem but shutting their product out completely doesn’t sound prudent. We need to compete with them in EV technology. It is coming to the world whether we want to deny that fact or not. Let’s not be Luddites here. Are you saying it is all about the consumer....what about our dairy, Egg, cheese, maple syrup cartels, do they benefit the consumer or the manufacturer...and why do we have to do business with a nation that has attacked our market in the past...they are as unreliable as any dictatorship...why not bring in cheap Russia oil if thats the case... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
ExFlyer Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 28 minutes ago, ironstone said: With this deal with China, at least Carney knows he will be able to rely on the continued support from the CCP during election time. Not a bad thing to have more trading partners but it would be nice if they weren't dictatorships. And it would be nice if they weren't massive security threats to Canada either. More giant container ships crossing the oceans back and forth. Well, it would be nice if all countries were perfect democratic societies but.... Show me a country that does not engage in espionage in one form or another. A country that does not have an intelligence department? Yeah well, until we have star trek style transporters devices, we will have to use ships, plane and trains 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
ExFlyer Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Army Guy said: More dishonesty, i did not ask for those stats, YOU and YOU alone provided them, even when they were irrelevant to the conversation... There are only 40,000 farmers who grew Canola last year, those are the people that will be effected by Chinese tariffs....not the entire industry, as your suggesting....Not sure why you can't see that, or your deliberately being dishonest.. That is the reality of this conversation, Chinese EV and those effected by Chinese tariffs... WOW, bottom line is you don't know what your talking about , car parts are made in various cities across Canada and the US...not just Ontario....Yes they have closed plants or reduced shifts....in reality that industry as it is right now grosses more to our GDP than Canola...it employs more than Canola, could ever dream off...and your take is well they are already hurting why not kick them in the nuts again....And i quote you said, they are going to lose their jobs anyways....so why stick up for them....And you say i'm the one out of touch with reality...every Canadian job needs to be fought for with this ongoing dispute with the US...Then there is China has already screwed us over many times in the past....And suddenly it is OK to start that relationship up again...That makes no sense....When Does Carney go to Russia and make a deal there....Seeing how we are now open for business to everyone... Yes you did...you asked where I got the numbers and I told you I asked AI and cut and pasted the answers. If you wish to dismiss them or argue with them..take it up with AI ...I am not sure that you are smarter and know more than AI ,but hey, if you think so well, I guess that is all that matters LOL OK, have it you way. The farmers and fishermen of this country are second class and of no consequence and do not matter as long as Ontario is taken care of. Oh and thanks for the votes LOL Army Guy needs to get even...how appropriate for you LOL. I take them as a badge of honour as your retorts are so poor I pi$$ you off LOL BTW...do other folks know you also have another account and call yourself shady?? Edited January 23 by ExFlyer 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Well, it would be nice if all countries were perfect democratic societies but.... Show me a country that does not engage in espionage in one form or another. A country that does not have an intelligence department? Yeah well, until we have star trek style transporters devices, we will have to use ships, plane and trains We have a huge vulnerability to US spying through their tech firms. They can shut our economy down at any time too. It’s high time we were honest about that. We’d be far better off with European and Canadian companies than American or Chinese ones, not an option right now but something every prudent country that values independence and the rule of law should be moving towards. We can’t trust them. That much has been made abundantly clear. Edited January 23 by SpankyMcFarland 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
ExFlyer Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: We have a huge vulnerability to US spying through their tech firms. They can shut our economy down at any time too. It’s high time we were honest about that. We’d be far better off with European and Canadian companies than American or Chinese ones, not an option right now but something every prudent country that values independence and the rule of law should be moving towards. We can’t trust them. That much has been made abundantly clear. Look, lets be realistic, all countries gather intelligence on other countries. We even share some with chosen countries but we do not share everything we gathered...only selected things. 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Politics1990 Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 23 hours ago, Army Guy said: YA i mean who really cares about good paying Canadian jobs any ways, just another road block to navigate........OH wait a minute he's the premier of Ontario home of the auto sector.... lol defending doug ford is even a low for you mr veteran 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 14 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: A lot of people here need to see America as it is now under the current wretched leader and his ilk - in relative decline and no longer as close a friend as it was to us. Also we are not Americans despite our proximity. Some of you will deny those facts till your last breath but you won’t change them. Nobody said anything like that. Change cough medicines immediately 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
CdnFox Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 14 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: I realize there are arguments on both sides and that China is a unique problem for the world with its trillion dollar plus trade surplus but I feel we should not exclude one of the tech leaders in EV, if not the leader already. Trade should continue as far as possible, Exclusion isn't what's being called for. But what's happening right now is we've allowed them to basically sync our automotive industry that we have already sung tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars into to promote batteries that will now no longer be needed and we didn't really get anything for it. We got a reduction on some of our agricultural products tariffs and no guarantee they won't go back up. Meanwhile this is a severe blow for us and we've now demanded the RCMP work more closely with them and now people can come and go without even a visa which makes it a billion times easier for them to come and threaten people in our country which is exactly what they've been accused of doing, and we're no better off than we were a year and a half ago but they are massively better off We cannot do deals like that. That is the death of Canada. You need to pay attention because when I say the death of Canada I'm not joking, I'm not engaging in hyperbole. With our debt to GDP, giving the Chinese access to our political system our criminal system and our manufacturing base as we are, and with the other threats we face canada is well on its way to becoming a third world nation just like Argentina did back in the day when there was a time it was equal to America and Canada This isn't just about political ideology anymore. This will become unrecoverable before long Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: We have a huge vulnerability to US spying through their tech firms. They can shut our economy down at any time too. It’s high time we were honest about that. We’d be far better off with European and Canadian companies than American or Chinese ones, not an option right now but something every prudent country that values independence and the rule of law should be moving towards. We can’t trust them. That much has been made abundantly clear. It's odd that Trump never threatened to make GPS inoperable to non-Americans. Scramble the signals coming off US satellites and withhold the code to correct the offset and Bob's their uncle. It's literally a free American service the world is using to screw the US. Oh well I guess we could switch to the EU's Galileo system. Edited January 23 by eyeball 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 9 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Yes you did...you asked where I got the numbers and I told you I asked AI and cut and pasted the answers. If you wish to dismiss them or argue with them..take it up with AI ...I am not sure that you are smarter and know more than AI ,but hey, if you think so well, I guess that is all that matters LOL OK, have it you way. The farmers and fishermen of this country are second class and of no consequence and do not matter as long as Ontario is taken care of. Oh and thanks for the votes LOL Army Guy needs to get even...how appropriate for you LOL. I take them as a badge of honour as your retorts are so poor I pi$$ you off LOL BTW...do other folks know you also have another account and call yourself shady?? Then show me , should be easy it is all recorded on the forum.....Those are your quotes you provided them, and like i said they have nothing to do with the conversation at all.... AI did not decide to use them in this post YOU did that, just own your mistake...I don't have to be smarter, your provided source has nothing to do with the topic....that's on you ... I never said anyone was second class , to be honest you threw the auto workers under the bus , not me...What i suggested was dealing with a different country other than China for Canola...We meaning Canada did not have to deal with China at all... Your welcome did you think you where the only one with a down vote button....you can take them how ever you want you earned them....I takes a lot more than you to make me pissed off.... This is how you post most of the time your just burning band width, over petty stuff ,like some teenager....and when your cornered you just collapse, and revert back to being YOU for a lack of a better term...You've wasted enough of my time.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 6 hours ago, Politics1990 said: lol defending doug ford is even a low for you mr veteran And here i thought i was saying that dealing with China is a bad choice....with many better choices available....Doug ford is defending Good paying automotive jobs across the country....and some how he is the bad guy here....I mean come on...are you saying these jobs are not worth defending....What we needed as a more reliable trading partner, other than China....one that has not stab us in the back in the past....is that not the liberal line when we deal with the US....or is that script just apply to the States... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
ExFlyer Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 (edited) 9 hours ago, Army Guy said: Then show me , should be easy it is all recorded on the forum.....Those are your quotes you provided them, and like i said they have nothing to do with the conversation at all.... AI did not decide to use them in this post YOU did that, just own your mistake...I don't have to be smarter, your provided source has nothing to do with the topic....that's on you ... I never said anyone was second class , to be honest you threw the auto workers under the bus , not me...What i suggested was dealing with a different country other than China for Canola...We meaning Canada did not have to deal with China at all... Your welcome did you think you where the only one with a down vote button....you can take them how ever you want you earned them....I takes a lot more than you to make me pissed off.... This is how you post most of the time your just burning band width, over petty stuff ,like some teenager....and when your cornered you just collapse, and revert back to being YOU for a lack of a better term...You've wasted enough of my time.... Do your own search in Google or any AI. It will indicate there are more farmers and fishermen than auto workers. You imply farmers and fishermen are not as important as Ontario auto sector workers. So yes, you do consider them less important or, "second class". Nope, I use the down vote to disagree, and if you choose to "punish" me with them...I take that as a badge of honour...thank you Oh and speaking of burning bandwidth... something like you are doing with this post just to denigrate me?? LOL Army Guy.... you are beginning to embarrass the uniform Starting to sound like a bitter old soldier. Edited January 24 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
blackbird Posted January 24 Author Report Posted January 24 (edited) 11 hours ago, Army Guy said: .Doug ford is defending Good paying automotive jobs across the country.. Premier Ford is defending an industry that has required Canadian taxpayers, federal and provincial, to pay billions of dollars into it. At the same time their executives are making up to around 12 million dollars a year with bonuses. Why are Canadians taxpayers forced to pay billions of dollars to an industry that is paying its executives 240 times what the average worker gets paid? This is corruption at its worst. If taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars into the auto industry, why are not other industries across Canada receiving these kinds of subsidies from the government? I don't see billions of dollars being put into the failing forestry industry in B.C. Why is that? Because all the votes for liberals and the Ford government are in central Canada, Ontario and Quebec. These politicians in central Canada are ripping off the rest of Canadians. Yet you are telling us that Canadians should spend their money on Canadian made vehicles instead of less expensive foreign made vehicles. Many Canadians do not make anywhere near $89.000 per year that auto workers make. It is hypocrisy to tell people that they should support richer people instead of be frugal with the limited amount of money they have. " Automotive Industry Statistics for Canadians Canada’s automotive manufacturers assemble around 1.4 million vehicles in a year. The automotive industry contributes around $19 to Canada’s GDP and has a revenue of over $140 billion. The average salary in the industry is $89,400. Only 12% of cars manufactured in Canada are sold in Canada. In 2024, there were 26.8 million registered vehicles on the road. In 2025, around 1.9 million motor vehicles were sold in Canada. Both the Canadian Government and automotive manufacturers are investing billions in electric vehicle production. China and the US are the biggest automotive manufacturers in the world. unquote Automotive Industry Statistics in Canada | Made in CA Edited January 24 by blackbird Quote
Army Guy Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 3 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Do your own search in Google or any AI. It will indicate there are more farmers and fishermen than auto workers. You imply farmers and fishermen are not as important as Ontario auto sector workers. So yes, you do consider them less important or, "second class". Nope, I use the down vote to disagree, and if you choose to "punish" me with them...I take that as a badge of honour...thank you Oh and speaking of burning bandwidth... something like you are doing with this post just to denigrate me?? LOL Army Guy.... you are beginning to embarrass the uniform Starting to sound like a bitter old soldier. We are not talking about how many farmers and fishermen there are....we are talking about those effected by Chinese tariffs, and in this case it is canola farmers...why is that so hard to understand.... Once again YOUR LIEING... I never said one was more important than the other....no wonder most of your posts end up in name calling because you either don't understand the topic, or you can't help yourself and are dishonest....Go back and find where i said they were second class.... I'm not punishing you, i disagree with everything you have said in this topic....and you can take that anyway you want... I'm not denigrating you, your being dishonest ,and i'm calling you out on it... LOL...I'm embarrassing the uniform, I'm not the one pulling sh!t from your a$$, that would be you....and then lying about it... I'm not the only one that sees all of this, it's all laid out in black and white on these very pages for people to see, pretty much all your conversations go like this....you start losing the debate then you slip in the lies, then the name calling....Frankly you really don't contribute much to the conversation except hijacking posts...and turning them into sh!t shows... Instead of judging me and the others on here , you should reflect on yourself and what you really contribute here.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
ExFlyer Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We are not talking about how many farmers and fishermen there are....we are talking about those effected by Chinese tariffs, and in this case it is canola farmers...why is that so hard to understand.... Once again YOUR LIEING... I never said one was more important than the other....no wonder most of your posts end up in name calling because you either don't understand the topic, or you can't help yourself and are dishonest....Go back and find where i said they were second class.... I'm not punishing you, i disagree with everything you have said in this topic....and you can take that anyway you want... I'm not denigrating you, your being dishonest ,and i'm calling you out on it... LOL...I'm embarrassing the uniform, I'm not the one pulling sh!t from your a$$, that would be you....and then lying about it... I'm not the only one that sees all of this, it's all laid out in black and white on these very pages for people to see, pretty much all your conversations go like this....you start losing the debate then you slip in the lies, then the name calling....Frankly you really don't contribute much to the conversation except hijacking posts...and turning them into sh!t shows... Instead of judging me and the others on here , you should reflect on yourself and what you really contribute here.... OK Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Venandi Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 (edited) Not my part ship (as they say) but since there are some AI fans here, this is what the bot thinks about farming vs the automobile sector: SECTOR CONTRIBUTION TO GDP EMPLOYMENT (% OF TOTAL) KEY HIGHLIGHTS Farming 1.6% to 1.8% 1% Major employer in agri-food sectors. Automotive ~6.3% Industry Directly: 0.6% Contributes ~$19.2 billion in GDP. Mining 5.2% to 7.8% ~1% Supports ~694,000 jobs directly and indirectly. Fisheries ~2% ~90,000 jobs Over $9 billion contribution to GDP. Edited January 24 by Venandi 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 5 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Do your own search in Google or any AI. It will indicate there are more farmers and fishermen than auto workers. And? This deal doesn't benefit all farmers are all fishermen, but you're trying to narrow it down to just auto workers. What about steel workers and every other construction support worker? Seeing as your adding all farmers why not add all manufacturing and industry? Once again you have to tell a lie in order to try and present your opinion and that suggests your opinion is shit. If your opinion wasn't garbage you wouldn't have to lie in order to make your point The number of canola farmers and fishermen is impacted by this is only slightly larger than the automotive industry. And those farmers and fishermen weren't being wiped out but the automotive industry probably will be. At least be honest if you're going to discuss things 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
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