betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) If you think the tariff will be the only problem......you gotta be kidding. We'll lose businesses - and Carney, heaven forbid if he becomes PM, will chase businesses out of Canada and get them running straight into Trump's welcoming arms! We'll have a "brain drain." Professionals and skilled workers will follow where the money is! Edited February 3 by betsy 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, betsy said: You can whine about that all you want...................but....................the numbers are irrelevant. The point is that the US President want to tightly secure all US borders. He doesn’t care a damn about the northern border. He already said it’s artificial and should be erased. The tariffs are about gaining trade advantages and trying to replace internal revenue with external revenue, making other countries pay Americans more. That’s it. The fentanyl and illegal migrants from Canada aren’t real concerns, which is why the $1.3 billion we’re spending on helicopters and other border stuff didn’t change anything in these negotiations. He’s trying to put the squeeze on Canada to get more stuff for the US or simply to annex Canada. That’s it. Edited February 3 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: He doesn’t care a damn about the northern border. He already said it’s artificial and should be erased. The tariffs are about gaining trade advantages and trying to replace internal revenue with external revenue, making other countries pay Americans more. That’s it. The fentanyl and illegal migrants from Canada aren’t real concerns, which is why the $1.3 billion we’re spending on helicopters and other border stuff didn’t change anything in these negotiations. He’s trying to put the squeeze on Canada to get more stuff for the US or simply to annex Canada. That’s it. Nations aren't being forced to play his game. They can take their businesses elsewhere. We don't have to do trade with the USA.......................right? Edited February 3 by betsy Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 28 minutes ago, betsy said: Nations arem't being forced to play his game. They can take their businesses elsewhere. Yes, which will be hard for Canada given the convenience of the U.S. market, which feels in many ways like a domestic market. Trump isn’t wrong to say that we depend on that market. The question for Canadians is whether their sovereign independence is worth the price of having that market shut by a self-interested US that chooses to make it costly for Canadians to sell into that market if we don’t simply join the U.S. Canada can choose independence and pay the added costs, and the U.S. will pay added costs and suffer too. Trump simply thinks it’s worth the risks because eventually he’ll wring concessions out of Canada. I don’t think he understands how it will play out in terms of negative impacts on the American international image. Canadians may be willing to pay the added costs of greater independence, but if they do realign Canada away from the U.S., that’s probably a worse situation for the U.S. too. It’s not how to win friends and influence people. It’s not how to create more opportunities for both countries through sensible economic ties. Edited February 3 by Zeitgeist Quote
Chrissy1979 Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 28 minutes ago, betsy said: I don't know what post you refer to. Just for the record........ I'm not saying those who fight it aren't patriotic. I'm saying.......tit-for-tat tariff is not the answer. I gave Danielle Smith's position on the matter to be practical. BIG DIFFERENCE. On the other hand, To say that those who don't agree with a tariff pissing contest, to be un-patriotic.........is what's ignorant and insensible. The above poster who came out swinging accusing me to be a Chinese bot, has clearly become un-hinged by this downturn with the USA. Lol - If she's unhinging now at the first round - I'd hate to imagine how she'll be if Trump increases the tariff even higher in this pissing contest! 🤣 We should exhaust all positive avenues before we jump into a tariff war we can't possibly win. We're not in any position to win. Unfortunately, the Liberal government had weakened us and stifled our growth. "Accusing me to be a Chinese bot...". 😂 1 Quote
PIK Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 And Canadians must support canadian business. Screw Walmart. 2 Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Barquentine Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 34 minutes ago, betsy said: I gave Danielle Smith's position on the matter to be practical. Nothing to do with her. It's 10% on Energy, which presumably includes electricity. Between that and our cheap oil... Well, even Trump isn't stupid enough to upset those interwoven systems. Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, CdnFox said: Did you? I didn't notice But no it isn't and i explained in detail why. ..... Still the dick you were before LOL Once a dick, always a dick. You have never explained anything in detail...you only ramble on then grunt and squeeze out more $hit. LOL Edited February 3 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
ExFlyer Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, herbie said: The mango M0ron thinks we're just one big state. Offering a country bigger than his own a whole 2% stake if it sells itself out and submits to his dream of anschluss. Now we know what Ukraine negotiating with Russia was like pre-invasion. Cancel all military purchases from US suppliers except those destined for Ukraine next. Yes but some provinces suggesting we only punish the "red states" is not punishing the country. If you were not aware what it would be like when Trump wins, then you lived under a rock LOL Canada has made major military purchases in other countries. Airbus, Cormorant helicopter, new fixed wing SAR aircraft. We need to hit them where it hurts the most...export tax on energy. Why put tariff on food like the liberals are doing....that hurts us the most. Edited February 3 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Yes, which will be hard for Canada given the convenience of the U.S. market, which feels in many ways like a domestic market. Trump isn’t wrong to say that we depend on that market. The question for Canadians is whether their sovereign independence is worth the price of having that market shut by a self-interested US that chooses to make it costly for Canadians to sell into that market if we don’t simply join the U.S. Canada can choose independence and pay the added costs, and the U.S. will pay added costs and suffer too. Trump simply thinks it’s worth the risks because eventually he’ll wring concessions out of Canada. I don’t think he understands how it will play out in terms of negative impacts on the American international image. Canadians may be willing to pay the added costs of greater independence, but if they do realign Canada away from the U.S., that’s probably a worse situation for the U.S. too. It’s not how to win friends and influence people. It’s not how to create more opportunities for both countries through sensible economic ties. Look, I don't care what Trump says. How he justifies his decision, is not my point. I'm looking at this situation from an objective perspective. How a nation wants to conduct her trade/commerce within her own borders.........is her own business. Our practical options: 1. Meet the condition to avoid the tariff 2. Pursue all other positive avenues in negotiations 3. Walk away from having any trade with the USA. Tit-for-tat, will surely drive Canada to the ground! It's not the answer. Trump could just as easily decide to withdraw from doing any trade at all with Canada. Edited February 3 by betsy 1 Quote
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, PIK said: And Canadians must support canadian business. Screw Walmart. I'm all for that. And buying Canadian products. But, it was pointed out in one of the news channels, that it isn't easy to identify what are Canadian products. Some products may say Made in Canada - but, ingredients may have come from the USA. Oh lol - I stocked up on products that I use which are US-made, hoping that this insanity wouldn't last that long. There is still hope. Trump and Trudeau are supposed to talk today. Edited February 3 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barquentine said: Nothing to do with her. It's 10% on Energy, which presumably includes electricity. Between that and our cheap oil... Well, even Trump isn't stupid enough to upset those interwoven systems. What has nothing to do with her? Smith's position is the practical solution - that's the argument being presented in the OP! Read the title of this thread and the OP. That's what this thread is about. Edited February 3 by betsy Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, PIK said: And Canadians must support canadian business. Screw Walmart. Why? The sell Canadian products, especially grocery items. They buy or lease and use Canadian land They employ Canadian workers. "Walmart Canada has over 100,000 employees. Walmart Canada is one of Canada's largest employers" as well as the ancillary workers (drivers, warehouse, contractors etc). Is Walmart the only one?? What about the Bay? What about Ford? GM? Stelantis? McDonalds? Burger King or other fast food places? The venerable Molsons Brewery?? You want to lose that? and put all those folks out of work??? I get your sentiment but, just because the store or company has an American parent does not mean it is not contributing to the Canadian economy or especially employing Canadians. Edited February 3 by ExFlyer 1 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Barquentine Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 18 minutes ago, betsy said: Read the title of this thread and the OP. That's what this thread is about. Tit for tat, not tit for tat... Neither position affected Trump's decision. It's just a money grab. But the fact that Trump put only 10% on energy shows he's worried about that sector. Maybe it would have been a good bargaining chip. Quote
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Barquentine said: Tit for tat, not tit for tat... Neither position affected Trump's decision. It's just a money grab. But the fact that Trump put only 10% on energy shows he's worried about that sector. Maybe it would have been a good bargaining chip. Corrections: We don't know what could've happened if we didn't go into a tit-for-tat. Who knows, maybe Trump would've lifted the tariff a week later. But we do know what Trump says will happen, if we retaliate. Edited February 3 by betsy Quote
Nationalist Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 25 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Why? The sell Canadian products, especially grocery items. They buy or lease and use Canadian land They employ Canadian workers. "Walmart Canada has over 100,000 employees. Walmart Canada is one of Canada's largest employers" as well as the ancillary workers (drivers, warehouse, contractors etc). Is Walmart the only one?? What about the Bay? What about Ford? GM? Stelantis? McDonalds? Burger King or other fast food places? The venerable Molsons Brewery?? You want to lose that? and put all those folks out of work??? I get your sentiment but, just because the store or company has an American parent does not mean it is not contributing to the Canadian economy or especially employing Canadians. I can't speak for all Wallymarts but, I quit shopping there years ago. Its little India. They don't speak English and can't seem to get anything done correctly. Same for McDonald's and Tim Hortons. I've given up on wasting my money at such establishments. Fck Wallymart. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Zeitgeist Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, betsy said: Look, I don't care what Trump says. How he justifies his decision, is not my point. I'm looking at this situation from an objective perspective. How a nation wants to conduct her trade/commerce within her own borders.........is her own business. Our practical options: 1. Meet the condition to avoid the tariff 2. Pursue all other positive avenues in negotiations 3. Walk away from having any trade with the USA. Tit-for-tat, will surely drive Canada to the ground! It's not the answer. Trump could just as easily decide to withdraw from doing any trade at all with Canada. Withdrawal from trade with Canada would have far reaching consequences for the US that Trump is pretending don’t exist. We provide 23 rare resources that are important to US defence and industry. We’re a rare and significant supplier of uranium and medical isotopes. Also, the U.S. sells hundreds of billions of products to Canada. It’s not as simple as, Trump want cookie, Trump get cookie. Very soon there will be a lot of very worried people in the United States, not just Canada and Mexico. We are the number one export market for many US states. Now, there’s a case to be made that Trump is in a position to pressure Canada to some extent on trade, but his executive power is a lot more limited than he may be projecting right now. There are courts, Congress, the WTO, the USMCA dispute resolution panel, thousands of businesses and individuals impacted by higher costs and disruptions to supply chains. Trump isn’t Kim Jung Un, not yet anyway. If this policy causes too much trouble, it won’t take much to tip the American electorate, almost half of which already can’t stand him, against the Republicans who will suddenly find themselves distancing themselves from Trump to keep their seats in Congress/Senate. The smarter move is to begin earnest negotiations with positive proposals for a revised and improved agreement. I actually think there’s a strong case for greater integration with the U.S., but Trump’s current approach is making the U.S. appear less trustworthy and dependable. Canadians may soon want more independence despite the costs, simply because they don’t want to be sucker punched again. If in the worst case scenario Trump tries to cripple Canada and take the country through economic force, I think the long term costs both internationally and domestically would be high for the U.S. Very high. Edited February 3 by Zeitgeist Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Nationalist said: I can't speak for all Wallymarts but, I quit shopping there years ago. Its little India. They don't speak English and can't seem to get anything done correctly. Same for McDonald's and Tim Hortons. I've given up on wasting my money at such establishments. Fck Wallymart. Personal reasons for not shopping at any store are up to that person. All I am saying is folks that blindly suggest boycotting stores with American parent do not realize what impact it can have on everyday Canadian workers. Edited February 3 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Withdrawal from trade with Canada would have far reaching consequences for the US that Trump is pretending don’t exist. We provide 23 rare resources that are important to US defence and industry. We’re a rare and significant supplier of uranium and medical isotopes. Also, the U.S. sells hundreds of billions of products to Canada. It’s not as simple as, Trump want cookie, Trump get cookie. Very soon there will be a lot of very worried people in the United States, not just Canada and Mexico. We are the number one export market for many US states. Now, there’s a case to be made that Trump is in a position to pressure Canada to some extent on trade, but his executive power is a lot more limited than he may be projecting right now. There are courts, Congress, the WTO, the USMCA dispute resolution panel, thousands of businesses and individuals impacted by higher costs and disruptions to supply chains. Trump isn’t Kim Jung Un, not yet anyway, and if this policy causes too much trouble, it won’t take much to tip the American electorate, almost half of which already can’t stand him, against the Republicans who will suddenly find themselves distancing themselves from Trump to keep their seats in Congress/Senate. The smarter move is to begin earnest negotiations with positive proposals for a revised and improved agreement. I actually think there’s a strong case for greater integration with the U.S., but Trump’s current approach is making the U.S. appear less trustworthy and dependable. Canadians may soon want more independence despite the costs, simply because they don’t want to be sucker punched again. If in the worst case scenario Trump tries to cripple Canada and take the country through economic force, I think the long term costs both internationally and domestically will be high for the U.S. Very high. I don't know much about minerals we supply to the USA. But if the USA will drill and start mining their own minerals.....they might not need us at all. They get 27% of uranium here, and 25% in Kazakstan. They get the rest from other countries. We're not their exclusive supplier. Sources and percentage shares of total U.S. purchases of uranium in 2022 were: Canada 27% Kazakhstan 25% Russia 12% Uzbekistan 11% Australia 9% Six other countries combined 16% https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/nuclear/where-our-uranium-comes-from.php Edited February 3 by betsy Quote
myata Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 On 2/1/2025 at 6:52 PM, suds said: No, it's not the answer. Caving in to a dumb bully, talking softly to him, trying to soothe him, the alternative? Has it ever worked with a bully, even one in a million? Some people just have that problem with their eyes-brain connection. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 1 minute ago, myata said: Caving in to a dumb bully, talking softly to him, trying to soothe him, the alternative? Has it ever worked with a bully, even one in a million? Some people just have that problem with their eyes-brain connection. You can't deal with a nation's leader the same way you would deal with your neighborhood bully. Not if you can stand on your own, without this nation. Quote
Aristides Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, betsy said: Trump could just as easily decide to withdraw from doing any trade at all with Canada. He can't. Industry officials say a 25% tariff will shut down the North American auto industry in a week. Moving all manufacturing to the US would take 12 to 18 months and cost a fortune when the industry is shut down and has no revenues. That's the auto industry alone. Where is the US going to get the energy (gas, oil and electric) that they get from us and at what cost? We provide critical elements to their tech and defence industries that they can't get elsewhere. We are one of two countries that has all the elements needed to make Li batteries and the US isn't the other one. Edited February 3 by Aristides Quote
betsy Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 (edited) And.....what is this thing about a "bully?" Excuse me? 😁 Trump, is not a bully! You folks, are mis-using the term! Trump is doing his job as the US President. His responsibility is to look after his own nation and own people! He doesn't have to look after Canada! You're so used to Biden and the Liberals......who put migrants and other nations ahead of the USA and Canada.......that's why you're all confused now that you're faced with someone who's adamant to put America first! 😁 If you think Trump is a bully for demanding something in return - lol, you must think the same way of your employers - who demand labor from you in exchange for salary! Either my way or the highway! 🤣 Edited February 3 by betsy Quote
blackbird Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Its little India. They don't speak English and can't seem to get anything done correctly. Same for McDonald's and Tim Hortons. I've given up on wasting my money at such establishments. Fck Wallymart. There are some big problems with suggesting Canadians boycott McDonalds, Walmart and Tim Hortons. For one thing Walmart is an important store to buy groceries at a lower price. Other grocery stores in town have outrageous prices for a lot of groceries. Fruit and vegetables for example are a fraction of the price in Walmart. Walmart also has clothing for a lower price than elsewhere in town. People on limited income depend on it. Walmart also is employing all Canadian people and they employ a lot of people. Same with McDonalds. Coffee in McDonalds is now $1.00 for a small cup and $1.25 for a medium size cup. Many seniors, including myself, rely on the very inexpensive coffee. Seniors and many other people have a limited income. Other coffee shops charge $4 or $5 for a coffee, which is way too expensive if one goes every day. If one is a senior there is nowhere else to go to have a little social contact with friends. Tim Hortons charges about $1.70 for a small coffee but still far cheaper than other coffee shops and cafes. Maybe it would not affect some people to boycott Walmart, McDs, and Hortons, if they have a lot of money to throw around. If one is working, they might have social contacts that way. But not seniors. It doesn't make much sense to boycott places that make life affordable and that employ all Canadians. We would be just shooting ourselves in the foot. Edited February 3 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 (edited) 15 minutes ago, betsy said: Trump, is not a bully! You folks, are mis-using the term! Trump is a bully. He is very hostile to Canada because he doesn't like Canada's leaders. He doesn't understand how the world works and thinks he alone can change the world so that every other country are slaves to his country. He was on the news again this morning insulting Canada. He treats America's closest ally like an enemy of some kind. He is doing great harm in the world. He is a psychopath and displays hate constantly. The next four years will be difficult. It is very unpleasant to listen to him. Edited February 3 by blackbird 2 1 Quote
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