MAGA civil war starting?

[BeaverFever]

MAGA civil war breaks out over American "mediocrity" culture
 

A MAGA-world civil war erupted over Christmas when a social media post on American culture turned into a pitched battle over race, immigration and billionaires versus the working class.

Why it matters: The fight exposes one of the MAGA movement's deepest contradictions: It came to prominence chiefly via the white, less-educated, working class but is now under the full control of billionaire technologists and industrialists, many of them immigrants.

• It also sets up a tense MAGA vs. DOGE moment that could infect the early stages of President-elect Trump's second presidency.
• While some want to make America great by restricting immigration and promoting the American worker, others want to cut costs and increase efficiency no matter who does the work.

Catch up quick: The skirmishes started Sunday when Trump named venture capitalist Sriram Krishnan as his adviser on AI policy.

• Krishnan's appointment triggered an anti-Indian backlash on social media, particularly given his past advocacy for lifting caps on green cards.

Vivek Ramaswamy escalated the conflict into a full-blown war Thursday morning with a poston X blaming an American culture that "venerated mediocrity over excellence" for the growth in foreign tech workers.

• "A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers," Ramaswamy wrote, calling for a 1950s-style "Sputnik moment" to prioritize "nerdiness over conformity."
• "That's the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood & just wishing (or legislating) alternative hiring practices into existence," he said.

Between the lines: Elon Musk's X is the town square for the MAGA movement, and by stepping into that square and firmly criticizing American culture — while praising the immigrant work ethic and parenting model — Ramaswamy threw down a gauntlet.

• Musk spent most of the afternoon trying to defend his DOGE co-leader and explain his argument, framing it as using immigration to supplement, rather than replace, American workers.
• "Maybe this is a helpful clarification: I am referring to bringing in via legal immigration the top ~0.1% of engineering talent as being essential for America to keep winning," Musk wrote.

The problem for many MAGA adherents, though, was accepting the very notion of immigrants telling them America needs more immigration to fill lucrative jobs in America.

• It revived old tensions around the H-1B visa, which is reserved for people who "perform services in a specialty obligation" but practically speaking has become a crucial tool of Silicon Valley's growth.
• In some recent years, as many as 75% of those petitioning for that visa came from India, from where Ramaswamy's parents immigrated.

What they're saying: "The Woodstock generation managed to build out aerospace, the one before went to the moon, America was doing great. Underlying your post is that we were all living in squalor until being rescued by H-1B's. Then why did everyone want to come here?" right-wing personality Mike Cernovich responded to Ramaswamy on X.

• "There is nothing wrong with American workers or American culture. All you have to do is look at the border and see how many want what we have. We should be investing and prioritizing in Americans, not foreign workers," Nikki Haley, the former GOP presidential candidate and herself a daughter of Indian immigrants, wrote.

• "I want the little guy to matter too. Not everyone has $1 million but they still love their country and want to MAGA and close the border," far-right activist Laura Loomer posted.
• Loomer posted a series of missives throughout the afternoon, calling out Ramaswamy, Musk and anyone else in Trump's orbit who isn't fully committed to closing the borders.

Zoom out: The fracture was familiar to anyone who's seen a movement expand — early adopters criticizing the latecomers for bringing different ideas.

• "Tech bros who took 8+ years to figure out that President Trump is not the bad guy and is in fact, the solution to America's problems, are really out here pontificating to MAGA patriots who figured it out a decade before them?" conservative streaming host Brenden Dilley posted on X. 

The bottom line: For now the fight is mostly confined to X. But it's sure to raise difficult questions in the coming days about what Trump's administration will mean for immigration, labor and the American worker. 

• It will also potentially settle a looming conflict over who has the most influence in Trump 2.0 — his historic base or his new-found techno-libertarian allies.

https://www.axios.com/2024/12/26/maga-civil-war-ramaswamy-musk-loomer-cernovich?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=topic%2Fu.s.politics

[West]

😆.  Democrats still don't understand that this nonsense ^^^ is why Donnie won and why the MAGA movement rolls on..

The immigration debate is more complex than just flinging baseless allegations of "racism" to shut down the other side. When you bring in more people to work, it places a strain on a number of things including hospital wait times, education system, spread of foreign diseases ie Covid-19, etc. While the upper class benefit from a larger labor pool and can suppress wages, unchecked immigration is no doubt having a significant impact on inflationary pressures, housing shortages, and many other impacts. 

But hey at least the Democrats found somebody to work for less than minimum wage picking their fruit for them 

Edited December 27, 2024 by West

[User]

Siri, what is wishcasting?

 

[Moonlight Graham]

55 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

 

Between the lines: Elon Musk's X is the town square for the MAGA movement, and by stepping into that square and firmly criticizing American culture — while praising the immigrant work ethic and parenting model — Ramaswamy threw down a gauntlet.

• Musk spent most of the afternoon trying to defend his DOGE co-leader and explain his argument, framing it as using immigration to supplement, rather than replace, American workers.
• "Maybe this is a helpful clarification: I am referring to bringing in via legal immigration the top ~0.1% of engineering talent as being essential for America to keep winning," Musk wrote.

The problem for many MAGA adherents, though, was accepting the very notion of immigrants telling them America needs more immigration to fill lucrative jobs in America.

• It revived old tensions around the H-1B visa, which is reserved for people who "perform services in a specialty obligation" but practically speaking has become a crucial tool of Silicon Valley's growth.
• In some recent years, as many as 75% of those petitioning for that visa came from India, from where Ramaswamy's parents immigrated.

 

 

America is a racist white patriarchy.

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

"A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers,"

So the plan is turn Bubbas into experts?

I think when this brave new right wing backlash backfires it's going to make Jan 6 look like an actual day of love.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So the plan is turn Bubbas into experts?

 

The democrat plan appears to be to cry no matter what happens. If they have a successful person who's an expert do something they will scream about how it's anti-working class. If they have a working class person do something they scream how it's an unqualified cultist appointment. In other words no matter what happens the democrats will claim that is all horrible terrible evil no good very bad see fascist homophobic deplorable and evil.

And every sane person will tune you and your kind out when you do it because we've learned how to do that now as the last election proved

[NAME REMOVED]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

So the plan is turn Bubbas into experts?

I think when this brave new right wing backlash backfires it's going to make Jan 6 look like an actual day of love.

It's notable that the three accounts pushing for us to be "more like India," (Musk, Ramaswarmy, Cheong), are either immigrants themselves, or second generation Indians. The counter-argument, is to look at the quality of life at said Asian countries, India in particular. It's horrible. If Indian culture is so superior to North American culture as DOGE wants us to believe. why is the quality of life so poor in India?

I mean one would think that these rocket scientists would factor in work-life balance. Why not point to Western Europe, Scandinavia in particular, where the minimum wage, quality of life, health care are higher than America, while the actual hours worked per week is lower...

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

So the plan is turn Bubbas into experts?

I think when this brave new right wing backlash backfires it's going to make Jan 6 look like an actual day of love.

For those of us who were never in it, this movement of anti-politics know-nothings (a historical term, by the way) will unfold pretty much as we expect.

[Nationalist]

Amusing.

Libbies are now gonna try to split the Republicans in 2. They don't want to think about the unified rejection of every one of the policies and decisions by Brandon and his band of id1ots.

Libbies...you're p1ssing into a windstorm that's coming right at you.

Enjoy...

[BeaverFever]

Hilarious that not even one of the right wingers was able to address the rift going on between the MAGA camps, instead going off on tangents about democrats and fruit pickers, neither of which have anything to do with this thread 

 

The new techbro billionaires who have Trumps ear want to bring in more high income global tech talent (not min wage fruit -pickers @West you dumbass) and they look down at the traditional blue collar uneducated MAGAs as dumb jocks who wallow in mediocrity. 
 

MAGA is an incoherent assortment of widely different levels of knowledge, agendas, and worldviews with little in common except a hatred of libs so bound to turn on each other.
 

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

they have a successful person who's an expert do something they will scream about how it's anti-working class. If they have a working class person do something they scream how it's an unqualified cultist appointment

Not true at all. No Democrat or sane person has ever said it’s anti-working class to appoint qualified people to the job. It is anti-working Class to assemble your own oligarchy by appointing a cabinet full of billionaires to run the country and make all the major decisions, as if being an oligarch somehow makes you qualified. 
 

The hypocrisy is with the right who obsessed the qualifications of Kamala and of anyone who is not a cisgender straight white male, complaining that they’re not impeccable enough. No amount of post graduate degrees and prestigious previous positions is enough to satisfy the supposedly high academic standards  of MAGAs (who themselves have little in the way of education or qualifications)  

  But then when it comes to the clown car of hacks and cranks and grifters Trump is appointing suddenly formal qualifications don’t matter. Suddenly all that matters is that they have “common sense” and “good instincts” which “you can just tell” they have…by using your “common sense” and “good instincts”. No need for a formal education or any established record of accomplishment. 

[West]

11 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Hilarious that not even one of the right wingers was able to address the rift going on between the MAGA camps, instead going off on tangents about democrats and fruit pickers, neither of which have anything to do with this thread 

 

The new techbro billionaires who have Trumps ear want to bring in more high income global tech talent (not min wage fruit -pickers @West you dumbass) and they look down at the traditional blue collar uneducated MAGAs as dumb jocks who wallow in mediocrity. 
 

MAGA is an incoherent assortment of widely different levels of knowledge, agendas, and worldviews with little in common except a hatred of libs so bound to turn on each other.
 

Not true at all. No Democrat or sane person has ever said it’s anti-working class to appoint qualified people to the job. It is anti-working Class to assemble your own oligarchy by appointing a cabinet full of billionaires to run the country and make all the major decisions, as if being an oligarch somehow makes you qualified. 
 

The hypocrisy is with the right who obsessed the qualifications of Kamala and of anyone who is not a cisgender straight white male, complaining that they’re not impeccable enough. No amount of post graduate degrees and prestigious previous positions is enough to satisfy the supposedly high academic standards  of MAGAs (who themselves have little in the way of education or qualifications)  

  But then when it comes to the clown car of hacks and cranks and grifters Trump is appointing suddenly formal qualifications don’t matter. Suddenly all that matters is that they have “common sense” and “good instincts” which “you can just tell” they have…by using your “common sense” and “good instincts”. No need for a formal education or any established record of accomplishment. 

Nah. 

What intrigued me about MAGA is they are the party of solutions. Trump has long talked about trade deals etc going back to the 1990s. 

Trump is really the president of free enterprise. Democrats hate free enterprise and are jealous because some are more successful than others. 

Musks point is that there is obviously some benefit to immigration when you are importing some bright minds from other parts of the world. That i have no issue with provided they aren't stealing intellectual capital as was the case with Huawei. I don't think the US should be overloading their systems with immigrants who don't speak a lick of English and have substandard education levels. There's no net benefit there. 

The issue is also in the University system who decide to import more immigrants to fill the classrooms because they can charge more for tuition. This has nothing to do with educating the brighter minds in areas like engineering but is rather a business decision made on behalf of the universities. You saw that when actors were also bribing their child into Ivy league schools who were also as dumb as a bag of rocks..

So in this case both sides are right they just see things from different angles. 

By the way you make more money jn the trades than getting an "education" and being an office worker. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by West

[BeaverFever]

26 minutes ago, West said:

What intrigued me about MAGA is they are the party of solutions.

No, they are mob of random people who can’t even agree on what the problem is and have little understanding of how the world works. Trump and his appointees take advantage of their follower’s ignorance and make vague incoherent and contradictory statements which his followers interpret differently according to their own belief. 
 

26 minutes ago, West said:

Trump has long talked about trade deals etc going back to the 1990s. 

That’s like saying he’s talked about the weather or the economy since the 1990s. Everyone “talks about” those things.  

 

26 minutes ago, West said:

Musks point is that there is obviously some benefit to immigration when you are importing some bright minds from other parts of the world. That i have no issue with

But apparently a big faction of the  legacy MAGA movement does have an issue with it and they don’t like that the new MAGAs (Musk, Ramaswammy, other techbros amd billionaires) are pushing them aside. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by BeaverFever

[West]

4 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

No, they are mob of random people who can’t even agree on what the problem is and have little understanding of how the world works. Trump and his appointees take advantage of their follower’s ignorance and make vague incoherent and contradictory statements which his followers interpret differently according to their own belief. 
 

That’s like saying he’s talked about the weather or the economy since the 1990s. Everyone “talks about” those things.  

 

But apparently a big faction of the  legacy MAGA movement does have an issue with it and they don’t like that the new MAGAs (Musk, Ramaswammy, other techbros amd billionaires) are pushing them aside. 

1. Many in Trump's base are far more successful than you are. I know you are a brainwashed leftist but your argument is incoherent. 

2. The only one I see upset is Loomer. Trump himself has said he supports legal immigration. The problem is with the leftist cult being dishonest about the opponents positions. 

[CdnFox]

52 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Hilarious that not even one of the right wingers was able to address the rift going on between the MAGA camps, instead going off on tangents about democrats and fruit pickers, neither of which have anything to do with this thread 

They rather did. They pointed out that it's wishful thinking rather than actual reality  

Your comment is akin to saying "I told the psychiatrist about the voices in my head and you know, he didn't even try and have a rational debate with them"

 

 

Quote

The new techbro billionaires who have Trumps ear want to bring in more high income global tech talent (not min wage fruit -pickers @West you dumbass) and they look down at the traditional blue collar uneducated MAGAs as dumb jocks who wallow in mediocrity. 

I"m sure that's what your voices tell you    But there's no evidence of that. 
 

Quote

MAGA is an incoherent assortment of widely different levels of knowledge, agendas, and worldviews with little in common except a hatred of libs so bound to turn on each other.

Diversity is their strength  

Quote

Not true at all. No Democrat or sane person has ever said it’s anti-working class to appoint qualified people to the job.

Sure they do. In fact it's pretty common. If they don't like the person, or in many cases if they don't like the person who appointed the person, then they will go absolutely ballistic even if the person is fully qualified. They will find some excuse. And yet amusingly those same people are the kind who freaked out when conservatives said "Maybe prime minister isn't an entry-level position" when Justin Trudeau ran in 2015.

Hell in Canada we saw the left push hard the argument that Poilievre is unqualified because he's never held a job outside of the government and this there for means that he's not qualified to work for the government.  Seriously.  We had those fights right here on this  board and they were everywhere.  The guy is one of the most qualified people in canada with decades of experience and time in a highly sucessful gov't under a prime minister who's be several times voted to be the number one or in the top 3.   But he's unqualified. 

 

Quote

The hypocrisy is with the right who obsessed the qualifications of Kamala and of anyone who is not a cisgender straight white male, complaining that they’re not impeccable enough.

oh look at you, being all racist and misandrist and all   Sure that really strengthens your argument  

She was not rejected because of her color or her sex. She truly was inexperienced and have no skills or qualifications, but even that wasn't really what killed her.

It was her track record. 

She did absolutely nothing including the jobs she was tasked with when VP, and she admitted she would have done nothing different than Biden. So not only was she unqualified, she came right out and said she would try to be the same as what people already hated.  She did not earn her previous positions, she did not get elected as vp and was a diversity hire. 

So i have to ask  - when democrat voters rejected her completely in the 2019 primaries leading up to the 2020 election, was that because of their hypocrisy or their obsession with anyone who is not a cisgender straight white male? Or is it because like america would later discover she is a crap candidate?

The only hypocrisy here is yours. She didn't win a single vote from the democrats in the primaries and that's fine but somehow the fact she didn't win an election proves that the right wing is evil

 

Quote

No amount of post graduate degrees and prestigious previous positions is enough to satisfy the supposedly high academic standards  of MAGAs (who themselves have little in the way of education or qualifications)  

This is why your side lost the election, and why Justin Trudeau is about to be thrown on the scrap heap of history and his liberal party right alongside him. You want to try and dehumanize and explain that the right wing are complete scum and evil and shouldn't be listened to  because they didn't vote the way you'd like or agree with you about something. 

So what's your plan? Round up the right Wingers, brand them, March them off to concentration camps and see if you can't get a good deal on poisonous gas from an appropriate left-wing source? Because that sure sounds like what you're thinking.

The right doesn't spend as much time these days being indoctrinated in universities in America anyway. But the right is far more knowledgeable and practical and has far fewer mental health issues. Which is why they don't find the democrats today appealing.

Sucks to be you.

[NAME REMOVED]

If this becomes a battle between Trump and MAGA vs Elon/Vivek and DOGE, Trump will win easily, and release his followers on them. Elon and Vivek are their own worst enemies, and it would be like a couple of high ranking German generals trying to depose Hitler at his prime.

[West]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They rather did. They pointed out that it's wishful thinking rather than actual reality  

Your comment is akin to saying "I told the psychiatrist about the voices in my head and you know, he didn't even try and have a rational debate with them"

 

 

I"m sure that's what your voices tell you    But there's no evidence of that. 
 

Diversity is their strength  

Sure they do. In fact it's pretty common. If they don't like the person, or in many cases if they don't like the person who appointed the person, then they will go absolutely ballistic even if the person is fully qualified. They will find some excuse. And yet amusingly those same people are the kind who freaked out when conservatives said "Maybe prime minister isn't an entry-level position" when Justin Trudeau ran in 2015.

Hell in Canada we saw the left push hard the argument that Poilievre is unqualified because he's never held a job outside of the government and this there for means that he's not qualified to work for the government.  Seriously.  We had those fights right here on this  board and they were everywhere.  The guy is one of the most qualified people in canada with decades of experience and time in a highly sucessful gov't under a prime minister who's be several times voted to be the number one or in the top 3.   But he's unqualified. 

 

oh look at you, being all racist and misandrist and all   Sure that really strengthens your argument  

She was not rejected because of her color or her sex. She truly was inexperienced and have no skills or qualifications, but even that wasn't really what killed her.

It was her track record. 

She did absolutely nothing including the jobs she was tasked with when VP, and she admitted she would have done nothing different than Biden. So not only was she unqualified, she came right out and said she would try to be the same as what people already hated.  She did not earn her previous positions, she did not get elected as vp and was a diversity hire. 

So i have to ask  - when democrat voters rejected her completely in the 2019 primaries leading up to the 2020 election, was that because of their hypocrisy or their obsession with anyone who is not a cisgender straight white male? Or is it because like america would later discover she is a crap candidate?

The only hypocrisy here is yours. She didn't win a single vote from the democrats in the primaries and that's fine but somehow the fact she didn't win an election proves that the right wing is evil

 

This is why your side lost the election, and why Justin Trudeau is about to be thrown on the scrap heap of history and his liberal party right alongside him. You want to try and dehumanize and explain that the right wing are complete scum and evil and shouldn't be listened to  because they didn't vote the way you'd like or agree with you about something. 

So what's your plan? Round up the right Wingers, brand them, March them off to concentration camps and see if you can't get a good deal on poisonous gas from an appropriate left-wing source? Because that sure sounds like what you're thinking.

The right doesn't spend as much time these days being indoctrinated in universities in America anyway. But the right is far more knowledgeable and practical and has far fewer mental health issues. Which is why they don't find the democrats today appealing.

Sucks to be you.

Not to mention kamala wanted to cancel Christmas. Sad

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Hilarious that not even one of the right wingers was able to address the rift going on between the MAGA camps, instead going off on tangents about democrats and fruit pickers, neither of which have anything to do with this thread 

 

The new techbro billionaires who have Trumps ear want to bring in more high income global tech talent (not min wage fruit -pickers @West you dumbass) and they look down at the traditional blue collar uneducated MAGAs as dumb jocks who wallow in mediocrity. 
 

MAGA is an incoherent assortment of widely different levels of knowledge, agendas, and worldviews with little in common except a hatred of libs so bound to turn on each other.
 

Not true at all. No Democrat or sane person has ever said it’s anti-working class to appoint qualified people to the job. It is anti-working Class to assemble your own oligarchy by appointing a cabinet full of billionaires to run the country and make all the major decisions, as if being an oligarch somehow makes you qualified. 
 

The hypocrisy is with the right who obsessed the qualifications of Kamala and of anyone who is not a cisgender straight white male, complaining that they’re not impeccable enough. No amount of post graduate degrees and prestigious previous positions is enough to satisfy the supposedly high academic standards  of MAGAs (who themselves have little in the way of education or qualifications)  

  But then when it comes to the clown car of hacks and cranks and grifters Trump is appointing suddenly formal qualifications don’t matter. Suddenly all that matters is that they have “common sense” and “good instincts” which “you can just tell” they have…by using your “common sense” and “good instincts”. No need for a formal education or any established record of accomplishment. 

LOL...You're fcked Beave. My advise to you...put your make-up, slut-shoes and miniskirts away and dig out your old man-pants.

[BeaverFever]

56 minutes ago, West said:

1. Many in Trump's base are far more successful than you are. I know you are a brainwashed leftist but your argument is incoherent. 

No, Trump’s BASE is the under $50k crowd with no post secondary education   I am objectively far more successful   
 

58 minutes ago, West said:

The only one I see upset is Loomer. Trump himself has said he supports legal immigration. The problem is with the leftist cult being dishonest about the opponents positions. 

No the legacy MAGA influencers are starting to meltdown.  We’ll see how far it goes
 

 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

No, Trump’s BASE is the under $50k crowd with no post secondary education   I am objectively far more successful

ummm  no

Party affiliation by household income - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center

A we can see from data as late as 2014 (which would definitely include 'maga' types who would vote for trump)  the distribution of republican and democrat voters over 100,000 k  is almost identical and if anything favours republicans. 

Ooopsie!!!! 

why don't you research before you speak?

Edited December 27, 2024 by CdnFox

[NAME REMOVED]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

ummm  no

Party affiliation by household income - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center

A we can see from data as late as 2014 (which would definitely include 'maga' types who would vote for trump)  the distribution of republican and democrat voters over 100,000 k  is almost identical and if anything favours republicans. 

 

Interesting...

I have to hand it to CdnFox. This is an excellent post. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[Legato]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

MAGA civil war breaks out over American "mediocrity" culture
 

A MAGA-world civil war erupted over Christmas when a social media post on American culture turned into a pitched battle over race, immigration and billionaires versus the working class.

Why it matters: The fight exposes one of the MAGA movement's deepest contradictions: It came to prominence chiefly via the white, less-educated, working class but is now under the full control of billionaire technologists and industrialists, many of them immigrants.

• It also sets up a tense MAGA vs. DOGE moment that could infect the early stages of President-elect Trump's second presidency.
• While some want to make America great by restricting immigration and promoting the American worker, others want to cut costs and increase efficiency no matter who does the work.

Catch up quick: The skirmishes started Sunday when Trump named venture capitalist Sriram Krishnan as his adviser on AI policy.

• Krishnan's appointment triggered an anti-Indian backlash on social media, particularly given his past advocacy for lifting caps on green cards.

Vivek Ramaswamy escalated the conflict into a full-blown war Thursday morning with a poston X blaming an American culture that "venerated mediocrity over excellence" for the growth in foreign tech workers.

• "A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers," Ramaswamy wrote, calling for a 1950s-style "Sputnik moment" to prioritize "nerdiness over conformity."
• "That's the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood & just wishing (or legislating) alternative hiring practices into existence," he said.

Between the lines: Elon Musk's X is the town square for the MAGA movement, and by stepping into that square and firmly criticizing American culture — while praising the immigrant work ethic and parenting model — Ramaswamy threw down a gauntlet.

• Musk spent most of the afternoon trying to defend his DOGE co-leader and explain his argument, framing it as using immigration to supplement, rather than replace, American workers.
• "Maybe this is a helpful clarification: I am referring to bringing in via legal immigration the top ~0.1% of engineering talent as being essential for America to keep winning," Musk wrote.

The problem for many MAGA adherents, though, was accepting the very notion of immigrants telling them America needs more immigration to fill lucrative jobs in America.

• It revived old tensions around the H-1B visa, which is reserved for people who "perform services in a specialty obligation" but practically speaking has become a crucial tool of Silicon Valley's growth.
• In some recent years, as many as 75% of those petitioning for that visa came from India, from where Ramaswamy's parents immigrated.

What they're saying: "The Woodstock generation managed to build out aerospace, the one before went to the moon, America was doing great. Underlying your post is that we were all living in squalor until being rescued by H-1B's. Then why did everyone want to come here?" right-wing personality Mike Cernovich responded to Ramaswamy on X.

• "There is nothing wrong with American workers or American culture. All you have to do is look at the border and see how many want what we have. We should be investing and prioritizing in Americans, not foreign workers," Nikki Haley, the former GOP presidential candidate and herself a daughter of Indian immigrants, wrote.

• "I want the little guy to matter too. Not everyone has $1 million but they still love their country and want to MAGA and close the border," far-right activist Laura Loomer posted.
• Loomer posted a series of missives throughout the afternoon, calling out Ramaswamy, Musk and anyone else in Trump's orbit who isn't fully committed to closing the borders.

Zoom out: The fracture was familiar to anyone who's seen a movement expand — early adopters criticizing the latecomers for bringing different ideas.

• "Tech bros who took 8+ years to figure out that President Trump is not the bad guy and is in fact, the solution to America's problems, are really out here pontificating to MAGA patriots who figured it out a decade before them?" conservative streaming host Brenden Dilley posted on X. 

The bottom line: For now the fight is mostly confined to X. But it's sure to raise difficult questions in the coming days about what Trump's administration will mean for immigration, labor and the American worker. 

• It will also potentially settle a looming conflict over who has the most influence in Trump 2.0 — his historic base or his new-found techno-libertarian allies.

https://www.axios.com/2024/12/26/maga-civil-war-ramaswamy-musk-loomer-cernovich?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=topic%2Fu.s.politics

What an overly long diatribe of conclusions void of substance with many contradictions.

Beave.... all the author had to say was "this is an exercise in attempting to generate a storm in a teacup", 

[gatomontes99]

42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ummm  no

Party affiliation by household income - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center

A we can see from data as late as 2014 (which would definitely include 'maga' types who would vote for trump)  the distribution of republican and democrat voters over 100,000 k  is almost identical and if anything favours republicans. 

Ooopsie!!!! 

why don't you research before you speak?

They act as though that is a badge of dishonor. But, what it really is is the blue collar voters realizing that lower taxes, more jobs and lower inflation is a Republican thing that helps them.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship-by-race-ethnicity-and-education/

It's amazing how the left loves the middle and lower class, until they don't vote for them. Then their vote means the guy they voted for is scum. Why weren't the democrats they voted for before, scum?

They do that with everyone too. Blacks that voted for Trump are stupid/uncle Tom/racist. Hispanics that voted for Trump are stupid/racist. Women that voted for Trump are stupud/sexist/racists. They literally call people names and then expect those people to come back.

The Republicans don't do that. They assume they aren't explaining their positions well or are being silenced by the left. It's funny how they never call their voters or the Democrat voters stupid. At worst, they call them low information. Which implies the Republicans aren't getting their message out.

[Fluffypants]

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

America is a racist white patriarchy.

 

And a lot of these people aren't even multi generational and come to this country without a nickel to their name and work their asses off to be successful and then raise their kids to be successful and none of them cry BS racism.

Do you remember when Covid happened and they were talking about Asian hate crimes and when it came out it was almost all black people they got real quiet about it.

We live in a day and age where there is cries of racism from black people constantly and yet it is rare when one of their examples is actually real.

I don't know if we have some sort of racist plan to keep black people down by not letting them move forward by making claims that they are victims and there is nothing wrong with their culture and that its is actually outside forces keeping them down so don't bother trying.

Its funny all those other races have no problems with getting ahead in this country.

 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

They act as though that is a badge of dishonor. But, what it really is is the blue collar voters realizing that lower taxes, more jobs and lower inflation is a Republican thing that helps them.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship-by-race-ethnicity-and-education/

For sure. They also act as if academic post-secondary education is the only way to actually become educated or get smarter. And that's not true in the slightest. And I say that as a university grad. People can become every bit if not more informed I didn't intelligent outside of formal Academia these days every bit as easy and in fact easier and more thoroughly than they would inside.

To be honest the advantage of Academia these days seems to be more about who you meet and the networks you form which will serve you when you graduate rather than anything you learn. It is more about the elite than it is about the educated

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

 

 

It's amazing how the left loves the middle and lower class, until they don't vote for them. Then their vote means the guy they voted for is scum. Why weren't the democrats they voted for before, scum?

They do that with everyone too. Blacks that voted for Trump are stupid/uncle Tom/racist. Hispanics that voted for Trump are stupid/racist. Women that voted for Trump are stupud/sexist/racists. They literally call people names and then expect those people to come back.

The Republicans don't do that. They assume they aren't explaining their positions well or are being silenced by the left. It's funny how they never call their voters or the Democrat voters stupid. At worst, they call them low information. Which implies the Republicans aren't getting their message out.

WHoops, meant to comment on this as well

You're absolutely right. Again as we so often find ourselves saying the hypocrisy is unbelievable. The left claims to be all about working for the common man, making sure they get a fair shake and deeply caring about what happens to them, only to call them uneducated slobs with no intellect the moment they vote for someone else

A black person who decides to vote for republicans is an uncle tom. A woman who believes in conservative principles is a handmaden. It's like they don't even see their own hypocrisy