Pro-Hamas Rallies in Canada

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What do you mean?

Oslo Accord ?  Peace started to take hold.... Someone who wasn't Palestinian ended up killing the Israeli PM.

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Israel isn't interested in a two-state solution either.

 

They certainly were.  They were a fair ways along with serious negotiations with the palestinian authority when the authority suddenly decided to side with hamas and israel walked away. 

Sounds more like they don't believe one is possible or that the other parties are willing to negotiate in good faith. I suspect they'd rather the people were gone but they were certainly willing to accept a 2 state solution  - till the other side wasn't. 

[impartialobserver]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

"

What does the Bible say about atheism?

Atheists are some of the most religious and faithful people ever. It takes an incredible amount of faith to be an atheist. Sun, moon, stars, oceans, the Earth, animals, babies, male, female, the human heart, emotions, our conscience, love, intelligence, the human mind, bone structure, the human reproductive system, biblical prophecies coming true all before our eyes, eyewitness accounts of Jesus, and more and still there are some people who deny God’s existence.

Just stop and think about it. It’s impossible for something to come from nothing. To say nothingness caused nothing and created everything is absurd! Nothing will always remain nothing.

J. S. Mill who was a non-Christian philosopher said, “It is self-evident that only mind can create mind. For nature to make itself is a scientific impossibility.”

Atheism can’t explain existence. Atheists live by science, but science (always) changes. God and the Bible (always) remain the same. They know there is a God.

He is revealed in creation, through His Word, and through Jesus Christ. Everybody knows that God is real, people just hate Him so much they suppress the truth.

Behind every creation there is always a creator. You might not know the person who built your house, but you know it didn’t just get there on its own.

Atheists are going to say, “well who created God?” God is not in the same category as created things. God is not created. God is the uncaused cause. He is eternal. He simply exists. It is God who brought matter, time, and space into existence."

25 Important Bible Verses About Atheism (Powerful Truths) (biblereasons.com)

 

100% off topic. Thanks for proving that you have not the intellect to stay on topic. 

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

You call yourself "impartialobserver" and claim you are atheist so "have no dog in the religious battle".  

Hate to have to tell you but atheism is a kind of religion in and of itself.  It is a belief system which claims there is no god and therefore man becomes his own god.  It exalts atheism as if it is the be all and end all of everything, when in fact atheism is nonsensical.  The result of atheism is that one must believe that everything just happened by accident and that life has no meaning.  If one is to accept that, then we are just a chemical accident that happened.  There is no purpose for life and nothing to look forward to.  That is the kind of religion atheism leads to.  Sounds very depressing but that is atheism.

Atheists also have their own biases and are not impartial.  Nobody is "impartial" as you claim to be.  You are biased toward the ideology atheism and all that it means. Of course it also means there are no absolute morals, no right or wrong other than what somebody says is right and wrong.  You claim to look at the world impartially, but you are only fooling yourself.  Everyone has their biases.  Your beliefs would have to be a result of claiming to be atheist.  I am not sure you are a real atheist.  Maybe you are only thinking you are, but maybe you are unsure.

Sadly there are some serious consequences for not believing in the true God of the Bible.  That could mean you think our culture and foundation which is built on Judeo-Christian civilization is of no more value than any other.  That means you would regard our culture as no more valid or no better than the Islamic culture or middle eastern culture which is Islamic.  Perhaps you would think western culture is no more value than Buddhism, Sikhism, or Hinduism since all are false religions.

Why would an atheist think Communism or Socialism is undesirable if there are no absolute morals or absolute right and wrongs in the world?

100% off topic... nice try but I am not taking the bait. Respond to the topic in a coherent fashion and we can chat. 

[WestCanMan]

On 5/7/2024 at 11:47 PM, Videospirit said:

So even if hamas is undeniably morally worse than Israel in a vacuum, the circumstances make Israel the undeniable villains in the conflict.

If the stated goal of Palestinian governments [or whatever you wanna call their 'leadership' groups] wasn't genocide, then Israel wouldn't have had the moral/ethical need for said blockades. 

Oct 7th, and the resulting exuberant "children spitting on naked rape-victim corpses" celebrations was proof of that.

Oct 7th just showed you what the rest of us already knew. They knew it before 1948, and 1948 wasn't the first proof it, nor was 1967 the last. 

[impartialobserver]

The Palestinians and/or Arab-Berber population believe that they are in effect being colonized. It is not the body count of one war, one attack, one massacre. They focus on 1948 because that is the year that the Western nations imposed the State of Israel on them and essentially took their land and made them second-class citizens ( in their eyes). That is the long story made short. Now, should they get over it? Yes. Is Hamas and the state of palestine one in the same? No but there is enough overlap to correlate the two. What makes this messier than what you see on the surface is that the Muslim world (multiple nations and about 1 billion people) feels a sort of brotherhood with them. The population and leadership do not fully embrace the terrorist activities of Hamas but they tolerate it because they feel it may achieve a mutual goal.. a return to where they have all of the land. That is not going to happen. Without completely wiping out the population of one side or the other.. the only solution is where the palestinians put aside their grievances and move on. Just not sure what will make that happen. 

[blackbird]

38 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

100% off topic... nice try but I am not taking the bait. Respond to the topic in a coherent fashion and we can chat. 

You are the one who pulled the atheism card and claimed you were non-religious, as if that make you really impartial.

I explained it doesn't really.   Some of your posts make sense and I would have to agree with a lot of what you say.  But I am just telling you the truth; if you are atheist or claim to be, you don't have any foundation for right and wrong except humanism which is a faulty foundation.  It is built on sand, not rock.

[impartialobserver]

Just now, blackbird said:

You are the one who pulled the atheism card and claimed you were non-religious, as if that make you really impartial.

I explained it doesn't really.   Some of your posts make sense and I would have to agree with a lot of what you say.  But I am just telling you the truth; if you are atheist or claim to be, you don't have any foundation for right and wrong except humanism which is a faulty foundation.  It is built on sand, not rock.

Not even close to what I was talking about. Spin it all you want but simple reading comprehension would show that you are off in left field. 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

What makes this messier than what you see on the surface is that the Muslim world (multiple nations and about 1 billion people) feels a sort of brotherhood with them.

But not to the point of wanting them to live in their country i notice  

Considering everything you said, it would seem that this only argues further for the idea of having a very clear delimitation between a Jewish state and other muslim states. That the idea of trying to have little scoops of Muslim semi-states inside a Jewish nation is probably not going to work. It might if it weren't for some of the other actors but as you note there's a problem there.

[impartialobserver]

Just now, CdnFox said:

But not to the point of wanting them to live in their country i notice  

Considering everything you said, it would seem that this only argues further for the idea of having a very clear delimitation between a Jewish state and other muslim states. That the idea of trying to have little scoops of Muslim semi-states inside a Jewish nation is probably not going to work. It might if it weren't for some of the other actors but as you note there's a problem there.

I would agree. However, this comes from the fact that Israel controls certain parts of their existence. Israel controls the water supply, the power grid, and most of the roads. Having the State of Palestine be surrounded by Israel on most sides is not sustainable. The area is desert after all and being someone that knows desert (having lived in it for 47 years).. there are going to be battles over water and its close cousin, agriculture. Introduce this conflict into it and then add the religious battle into it and not sure how this can work. A utopian solution would be where you improve the standard of living in Palestine and therefore not have the desperation that fosters religious zealots and their soldiers. 

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I would agree. However, this comes from the fact that Israel controls certain parts of their existence. Israel controls the water supply, the power grid, and most of the roads. Having the State of Palestine be surrounded by Israel on most sides is not sustainable. soldiers. 

Well this is kind of where I was going with that. The idea of a Gaza Strip and West Bank just doesn't work. The Muslim states and the Israeli State need to be completely separate, self-sufficient entities I do not rely on each other out of necessity. I just don't see any solution where Gaza and West Banks exist within Israel that works for any length of time. The Palestinians hate the Israelis too much to be able to coexist when they are forced to interact just for food and water. They need to be somewhere where they are their own country and their own people and don't have to think about or deal with the Israelis at all if they don't want to

[impartialobserver]

Just now, CdnFox said:

Well this is kind of where I was going with that. The idea of a Gaza Strip and West Bank just doesn't work. The Muslim states and the Israeli State need to be completely separate, self-sufficient entities I do not rely on each other out of necessity. I just don't see any solution where Gaza and West Banks exist within Israel that works for any length of time. The Palestinians hate the Israelis too much to be able to coexist when they are forced to interact just for food and water. They need to be somewhere where they are their own country and their own people and don't have to think about or deal with the Israelis at all if they don't want to

that would the ideal solution. Not sure that Israel is willing to redraw the boundaries and therefore displace some of their citizens. It would be best in the long term but the modern world is dominated by short term thinking. 

[PIK]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Israel isn't interested in a two-state solution either.

"How can we stop them from hating us? I know, let's starve their children to death!"

Isreal tried many times over the decades to have peace eith the Palestinians, but they did not want peace with Israel. You should read up on how many times Israel got knifed in the back. Arafat was the worst thing to happen to the Palestinians.  And they have.never had a country before, my understanding in the early days they were nomadic. Israel won this battle and will never lose.  Palestinians always picked the wrong side and are getting what they deserve. So why doesn't the Arabs help them out, instead of using them as pawns against the jews? Because they don't want them either. 

[eyeball]

31 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Now, should they get over it? Yes.

... the only solution is where the palestinians put aside their grievances and move on. Just not sure what will make that happen. 

When both Israelis and Palestinians are governed by secular leftists.

Unfortunately right wing Israelis and Palestinians would never be about to get over that so...

It's a forever war.

 

[Black Dog]

15 minutes ago, PIK said:

Isreal tried many times over the decades to have peace eith the Palestinians, but they did not want peace with Israel. You should read up on how many times Israel got knifed in the back. Arafat was the worst thing to happen to the Palestinians.  And they have.never had a country before, my understanding in the early days they were nomadic. Israel won this battle and will never lose.  Palestinians always picked the wrong side and are getting what they deserve. So why doesn't the Arabs help them out, instead of using them as pawns against the jews? Because they don't want them either. 

It's always good when people like you can read something like this or look at a photos of dead kids being pulled from rubble and say "good, they deserve it." It's a real mask off moment for those of us who aren't bloodthirsty freaks.

Edited May 9, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

that would the ideal solution. Not sure that Israel is willing to redraw the boundaries and therefore displace some of their citizens.

Honestly i think the bigger problem might be finding another country that would want to accept them even if they come with their own land. It can't just be something sticking out like gaza was (remember it was part of egypt until recently.) 

But even if it meant the other nations buying them land in someone else's existing country or the like, i just can't see it working with little blobs inside isreal itself. "two states" probably will have to mean isreal and someone else that takes the Palestinians in one way or another. 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Honestly i think the bigger problem might be finding another country that would want to accept them even if they come with their own land. It can't just be something sticking out like gaza was (remember it was part of egypt until recently.) 

But even if it meant the other nations buying them land in someone else's existing country or the like, i just can't see it working with little blobs inside isreal itself. "two states" probably will have to mean isreal and someone else that takes the Palestinians in one way or another. 

In theory, you would think that they could simply expand the Gaza Strip and be ok with it. However, one of their grievances is that they want increased access to water and irrigation in connection to the Jordan River (so further inland). At present, Israel is the gatekeeper to this resource. If they were to abandon this area and return it to Israel and then focus on Gaza (with possibly Egypt giving them some territory), that would seem to work. However, they would find something to fight about. 

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

They certainly were.  They were a fair ways along with serious negotiations with the palestinian authority when the authority suddenly decided to side with hamas and israel walked away. 

Sounds more like they don't believe one is possible or that the other parties are willing to negotiate in good faith. I suspect they'd rather the people were gone but they were certainly willing to accept a 2 state solution  - till the other side wasn't. 

Are you still pretending Fatah and Hamas are buddies? lol.

[impartialobserver]

Israel is not in a good place with simple choices. if they relent.. they open the possibility of another attack in the near future. The grievances of Palestine are not going to be resolved soon and so the hatred of some will not subside. If they do not relent, they risk it angering the other side even more and prompting another Oct. 7 attack. Yes, Israel is militarily superior to Hamas/Palestine but that does not mean that you want to simply sacrifice human lives in the name of pride. Oct. 7 massacre was terrible and Israel was fully within its rights to retaliate. Unlike some on here.. I do not claim to have insider information and so have no idea what will prompt them (Israel) to pull back. 

[blackbird]

22 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

I do not personally care who is in the wrong.. israel/jews or palestine/arabs/muslims. first, I am atheist and so have no dog in the religious battle.

If you don't care who is in the wrong or who has the right to the land, how can you have an opinion on it?

What does being an atheist have to do with it?

[CdnFox]

24 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Are you still pretending Fatah and Hamas are buddies? lol.

Sure because that's what i actually said right?  Always gotta lie when you don't have an argument 

2013–2014 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks - Wikipedia

Israel was cruising along to a two state solution till the PA did a deal with hamas. 

So there you go. You were wrong again.  Imagine that  

Palestine would have it's own state today if they wanted it and weren't genocidal. 

 

[impartialobserver]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

If you don't care who is in the wrong or who has the right to the land, how can you have an opinion on it?

What does being an atheist have to do with it?

Ok. so you can stay on topic somewhat. Congrats. My interest in this story is not based on religion. I do not side with the Jews because I am jewish or with the Muslims because I practice Islam. Clear enough? 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

If you don't care who is in the wrong or who has the right to the land, how can you have an opinion on it?

What does being an atheist have to do with it?

You can not care who's wrong and still want an end to the fighting. If i lived in an apartment and my neighbors were yelling and screaming and throwing furniture I wouldn't care who cheated on whom, i'd just want them to stop

[impartialobserver]

When I hit the teenage years and decided that I wanted to know about stuff other than rock music and Boise State football.. there were 3 regions that especially intrigued me. 1. Israel/Jordan/Lebanon.. only because it did not seem to make sense as to why they were in perpetual conflict 2. East Africa.. mainly to understand why they were in a state of famine and 3. Eastern Europe.. why it was so poor when it seemed to be in an advantageous location in the geopolitical ballgame. When I got to college in 2007, I decided to take a deep dive on Roman history from antiquity to the time of Constantine and then went on to take two courses that were mostly or partly about the middle east/israel. In short.. what a convoluted mess. 

[PIK]

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

It's always good when people like you can read something like this or look at a photos of dead kids being pulled from rubble and say "good, they deserve it." It's a real mask off moment for those of us who aren't bloodthirsty freaks.

What's worse is supporting the people putting these kids out in front in danger. It's sad to know there is people that don't have a problem with that,and just look the other way and blame the jews. 1930s all over again.

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

Ok. so you can stay on topic somewhat. Congrats. My interest in this story is not based on religion. I do not side with the Jews because I am jewish or with the Muslims because I practice Islam. Clear enough? 

Clear as fog.  You still have not answered my question.  Why do you feel being an atheist and being non-religious has any relevance.  Do you think it gives you a better understanding?

Atheism does not give a person some kind of special view of the world.  It is actually the opposite.  It gives one a tainted or incorrect view of the world.

Edited May 9, 2024 by blackbird