Justin Trudeau, please fund Bibles in every home

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

1. Why? I a not religious so, the bible is insignificant for me.

2. The bible lays no foundation to anything except to some christians. And then the christians do not follow it anyway. I promote nothing and your accusations just prove my point that christians do not follow their own religion LOL

Why is it so important to you that I see your "christian" way?? I told you in the beginning I am not religious. Are you trying to convert me?   Wars in history are basically religious with a few exceptions of enveloping land. Is your "book" against war or promote war in defence of christianity?

1. You didn't say that originally and its significance to you is debatable. Very debatable in fact.

2. Here are the 10 commandments:

Do you not think commandments 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 should be actively adhered to? Do you enjoy having the Sabbath off? How 'bout idols? Would you deify money? Gold? Fear?

3. I could care less for Christianity...per se...I have my own opinion of The Dirty Three and its not terribly...flattering. However...the morality of the Bible's messaging is undeniably "good" for people. Basic Christian values...or morality...are a pillar of a healthy society. Hindu morality and Buddhist morality are generally "good" too. But most humans need an object to focus themselves on. A "God". For those who honestly believe they posses a "spirit" or a "soul", this concept of "God" justifies their belief. That includes me.

The Christians have indeed a history of disgusting acts...as do the Muslims and the Jews. This only proves that man is capable of corrupting just about anything for power. But the main messaging is "good".

 

 

Edited April 1 by Nationalist

[West]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

What is "living in sin"? 

Boinking a hooker? Smoking a joint? Or not going to church on sundays? Or just going to church on good friday and easter sunday and being a hypocrite? 

If you boink a hooker you may the HIV. 

If you smoke you may get cancer

If you don't go to church on Sundays you may not know about the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus.

[Black Dog]

4 minutes ago, West said:

If you boink a hooker you may the HIV. 

If you smoke you may get cancer

If you don't go to church on Sundays you may not know about the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus.

Sorry friend you're heading to Jahannam.

[Michael Hardner]

31 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This would certainly be in keeping with the Christian value of knowing God is always watching.

 

More specifically... How did people hoard things before money existed? They mostly didn't.  The rise of these systems meant that people were better off, on the whole, even though individuals who weren't able to specialize and work within the new system did worse.  And those who knew how to play the markets.. my God they could accumulate twice what another person could. Imagine having a society where someone could have twice the assets of another person!

I feel a lot of our technological progress has been a long road to reclaiming those expensive but beneficial aspects of tribal living.

They could park satellites and drones above us, and end premeditated public violence by monitoring cameras and our phones.  But since tribal society died, we have this strange idea of privacy.

Anyway, before people jump down my throat... I'm not advocating for that, but I am advocating for a little more imagination in assessing our situation.

Edited April 1 by Michael Hardner

[blackbird]

10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

The Christians have indeed a history of disgusting acts...as do the Muslims and the Jews.

This needs a little refinement because billions of people call themselves "Christian".  There are hundreds of millions that follow a kind of religion that calls itself Christianity but it is not Biblical.  The actual number of genuine Bible believers in the world are a tiny fraction of what would be professing Christianity.

This is why it is unwise to generalize.  Jesus taught his followers to love their neighbour as one's self.  This is something that is often very difficult when one's neighbour despises you or just wishes you would disappear.  Also who falls into this category of neighbour?  Is it the person next door or is it the people you work with?

However, what many professing Christians miss is what the Bible actually teaches.  Genuine Christians should certainly not be committing "disgusting acts".  When one becomes a Bible-believing Christian, they should be following Jesus Christ  and abhorring evil.  That is a struggle for some people.  

But the point is we need to be discerning when using the word "Christian".  It is a very broad term and is used by millions of people who have no idea what the Bible teaches but they follow some sort of religious practices or false churches.

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Sorry friend you're heading to Jahannam.

You like to falsely accuse people who believe in the Bible or are professing Christians.  That's a sign of a darkness and lack of spiritual knowledge.

Edited April 1 by blackbird

[Nationalist]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

This needs a little refinement because billions of people call themselves "Christian".  There are hundreds of millions that follow a kind of religion that calls itself Christianity but it is not Biblical.  The actual number of genuine Bible believers in the world are a tiny fraction of what would be professing Christianity.

This is why it is unwise to generalize.  Jesus taught his followers to love their neighbour as one's self.  This is something that is often very difficult when one's neighbour despises you or just wishes you would disappear.  Also who falls into this category of neighbour?  Is it the person next door or is it the people you work with?

However, what many professing Christians miss is what the Bible actually teaches.  Genuine Christians should certainly not be committing "disgusting acts".  When one becomes a Bible-believing Christian, they should be following Jesus Christ  and abhorring evil.  That is a struggle for some people.  

But the point is we need to be discerning when using the word "Christian".  It is a very broad term and is used by millions of people who have no idea what the Bible teaches but they follow some sort of religious practices or false churches.

You are correct and I apologize. I should have made a deeper distinction.

[Black Dog]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You like to falsely accuse people who believe in the Bible or are professing Christians.  That's a sign of a darkness and lack of spiritual knowledge.

Not my fault you don't follow the One True Faith

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Not my fault you don't follow the One True Faith

One true faith?

Climate change?

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Not my fault you don't follow the One True Faith

What is the one true faith to you?

[ExFlyer]

31 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You fail to understand the alternatives.  You don’t see that it was through the Christianization of the Roman Empire that slavery lessened, arbitrary rule and oppression were curtailed, and checks on the authority of Caesar or the King were put in place.  These advances were the logical conclusions of a better moral framework.

The first universities were ecclesiastical.  The renaissance was a rebirth of the spirit of the elevation of opportunity. The first modern democratic jurisdictions were the Italian merchant city-states that came out of this fertile ground.

The missionaries and “colonizers” of North America exchanged and advanced technology.  Even the Reformation that brought us the Protestant Work Ethic that brought us the US, Canada, and much of what we value about the modern nation state, grew out of an attempt to find the true unmediated message of Christ, who was following in a long line of histories in the Old Testament and prior.

Erase or remove those histories or belittle their importance and see what results.  The Bible is the most important book in Western culture, both from a religious and literary perspective.  Even taken as fiction, its stories reveal powerful and important truths about human nature and the world.  

What I understand is that through the Christianization of the Roman Empire that slavery was not lessened. The domination of the church upon the people made them slaves to the church and its doctrine.

I have travelled extensively over Europe and especially Italy. In the smallest mountain villages are incredible churches, took 100 and more years to build and the people gave everything except essentials to the church, In major cities the main churches took as much as 600 years to build (Duomo in Milan). The people were slaves to the church. The church is embarrassingly rich....all from believers. (the Vatican museum can only hold 10% of it's riches)

Every king, queen, knight, serf and soldier lived and died within the embrace of the Catholic faith. The inquisition is a perfect example of vile religious domination. The inquisition tortured and killed people that did not abide by the churches demands.

Actually, the Renaissance was a fervent period of European cultural, artistic, political and economic “rebirth” following the Middle Ages, not for the church at all.  I will agree the bible was an important book because  the church dominated every aspect of life. Although I will not agree it was the most important in "literary perspective". (The Divine Comedy, Canterbury Takes, Ribaiyat)

I, in no way, am attempting to erase history. What you do need to understand is that in those historical times, the church was the dictator and slave master even more than the kings, queens and, dictators . It ran everything, every aspect of everyones life.

Again, I do not need to be converted.

[ExFlyer]

53 minutes ago, West said:

If you boink a hooker you may the HIV. 

If you smoke you may get cancer

If you don't go to church on Sundays you may not know about the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus.

Cause and effect but you did not address the question "What is "living in sin"?  "

Is the priest sticking it to little boys a sin? And the church covering it up a sin?

Whrt if I only go on good friday, easter sunday and christmas?? Will I get enough knowledge?? LOL

[West]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Cause and effect but you did not address the question "What is "living in sin"?  "

Is the priest sticking it to little boys a sin? And the church covering it up a sin?

Whrt if I only go on good friday, easter sunday and christmas?? Will I get enough knowledge?? LOL

Yes. Matthew 18 speaks of tying millstones and tossing pervos into the sea. 

They didn't adhere to the commands of the Lord. Just as Israel neglected the poor and sacrificed babies to molech resulting in judgement. So too can you draw the parallels with other empires. 

I do not wish to see Canada go down that path but we very well may

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

1. You didn't say that originally and its significance to you is debatable. Very debatable in fact.

2. Here are the 10 commandments:

Do you not think commandments 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 should be actively adhered to? Do you enjoy having the Sabbath off? How 'bout idols? Would you deify money? Gold? Fear?

3. I could care less for Christianity...per se...I have my own opinion of The Dirty Three and its not terribly...flattering. However...the morality of the Bible's messaging is undeniably "good" for people. Basic Christian values...or morality...are a pillar of a healthy society. Hindu morality and Buddhist morality are generally "good" too. But most humans need an object to focus themselves on. A "God". For those who honestly believe they posses a "spirit" or a "soul", this concept of "God" justifies their belief. That includes me.

The Christians have indeed a history of disgusting acts...as do the Muslims and the Jews. This only proves that man is capable of corrupting just about anything for power. But the main messaging is "good".

 

 

OK  "originally and its significance to you is debatable" and that is what I am doing, debating it.

Every part of society has a rule book. Every country, business, school, place of worship (your choice). Some have only 10, others have volumes of books with rules. All are equally as important to the persons or persons that they are directed to.

All faiths have despicable parts in their history.

Edited April 1 by ExFlyer

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, West said:

Yes. Matthew 18 speaks of tying millstones and tossing pervos into the sea. 

They didn't adhere to the commands of the Lord. Just as Israel neglected the poor and sacrificed babies to molech resulting in judgement. So too can you draw the parallels with other empires. 

I do not wish to see Canada go down that path but we very well may

OK, we are getting close to the same page... well same chapter anyway

My total point, which has become a real debate is, I am not religious and certainly not what some have called me and religion has, in itself been a problem and may still be (Middle East right now).

[Zeitgeist]

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

What I understand is that through the Christianization of the Roman Empire that slavery was not lessened. The domination of the church upon the people made them slaves to the church and its doctrine.

I have travelled extensively over Europe and especially Italy. In the smallest mountain villages are incredible churches, took 100 and more years to build and the people gave everything except essentials to the church, In major cities the main churches took as much as 600 years to build (Duomo in Milan). The people were slaves to the church. The church is embarrassingly rich....all from believers. (the Vatican museum can only hold 10% of it's riches)

Every king, queen, knight, serf and soldier lived and died within the embrace of the Catholic faith. The inquisition is a perfect example of vile religious domination. The inquisition tortured and killed people that did not abide by the churches demands.

Actually, the Renaissance was a fervent period of European cultural, artistic, political and economic “rebirth” following the Middle Ages, not for the church at all.  I will agree the bible was an important book because  the church dominated every aspect of life. Although I will not agree it was the most important in "literary perspective". (The Divine Comedy, Canterbury Takes, Ribaiyat)

I, in no way, am attempting to erase history. What you do need to understand is that in those historical times, the church was the dictator and slave master even more than the kings, queens and, dictators . It ran everything, every aspect of everyones life.

Again, I do not need to be converted.

You’re incredibly selective in your accounts.  I could talk as much about the Act of Supremacy under Henry the 8th or the mass murder of clerics during the French Revolution as I can about the Spanish Inquisition.  The medieval society centred around the church made sense spiritually, intellectually, and financially to the villagers because it gave their lives a higher purpose, provided a bullwark against the material self-interest of the local lords and monarchs, and it provided an education to the illiterate masses prior to the printing press.  I’m not going to have a pissing contest over travel, even if I’m sure I’d win it.  One doesn’t need to travel to learn.  What’s important to understand is that the most advanced and liberated societies had their origins in Christianity.  That wasn’t by chance, because our higher institutions of learning began as religious institutions, and they reflected the apprenticeship process of learning towards mastery in the first guilds and manufacturing.  Much more can be said on these topics, but your perspective is one that makes it seem that our civilization would’ve happened without the important foundations of Christendom and Judaism, which were spread around the West primarily through the Greek and Roman civilizations and had antecedents in many prior cultures.  Learn and respect history, because it explains a lot about what works and what doesn’t in societies.

Edited April 1 by Zeitgeist

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

OK  "originally and its significance to you is debatable" and that is what I am doing.

Every part of society has a rule book. Every country, business, school, place of worship (your choice). Some have only 10, others have volumes of books with rules. All are equally as important to the persons or persons that they are directed to.

All faiths have despicable parts in their history.

Not the Buddhists...I don't think.

Without a central figurehead...I doubt man will follow the rules.

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re incredibly selective in your accounts.  I could talk as much about the Act of Supremacy under Henry the 8th or the mass murder of clerics during the French Revolution as I can about the Spanish Inquisition.  The medieval society centred around the church made sense spiritually, intellectually, and financially to the villagers because it gave their lives a higher purpose, provided a bullwark against the material self-interest of the local lords and monarchs, and it provided an education to the illiterate masses prior to the printing press.  I’m not going to have a pissing contest over travel, even if I’m sure I’d win it.  One doesn’t need to travel to learn.  What’s important to understand is that the most advanced and liberated societies had their origins in Christianity.  That wasn’t by chance, because our higher institutions of learning began as religious institutions, and they reflected the apprenticeship process of learning towards mastery reflected in the first guilds and manufacturing.  Much more can be said on these topics, but your perspective is one that makes it seem that our civilization would’ve happened without the important foundations of Christendom and Judaism, which were spread around the West primarily through the Greek and Roman civilizations and had antecedents in many prior cultures.  Learn and respect history, because it explains a lot about what works and what doesn’t in societies.

This is also very true.

[West]

22 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

OK, we are getting close to the same page... well same chapter anyway

My total point, which has become a real debate is, I am not religious and certainly not what some have called me and religion has, in itself been a problem and may still be (Middle East right now).

I want both victims and perpetrators to find the Lord. 

Which is why I want to see Tax payers fund a Bible for every home. Will save money in the end

[ExFlyer]

19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re incredibly selective in your accounts.  I could talk as much about the Act of Supremacy under Henry the 8th or the mass murder of clerics during the French Revolution as I can about the Spanish Inquisition.  The medieval society centred around the church made sense spiritually, intellectually, and financially to the villagers because it gave their lives a higher purpose, provided a bullwark against the material self-interest of the local lords and monarchs, and it provided an education to the illiterate masses prior to the printing press.  I’m not going to have a pissing contest over travel, even if I’m sure I’d win it.  One doesn’t need to travel to learn.  What’s important to understand is that the most advanced and liberated societies had their origins in Christianity.  That wasn’t by chance, because our higher institutions of learning began as religious institutions, and they reflected the apprenticeship process of learning towards mastery in the first guilds and manufacturing.  Much more can be said on these topics, but your perspective is one that makes it seem that our civilization would’ve happened without the important foundations of Christendom and Judaism, which were spread around the West primarily through the Greek and Roman civilizations and had antecedents in many prior cultures.  Learn and respect history, because it explains a lot about what works and what doesn’t in societies.

I got my info from Googling. Not selective, just responding to specific questions and comments.

As I have said , to you, numerous times, I am not religious.

I find it very interesting that you take it upon yourself to seemingly trying to convert me to your way of thinking. Well , I can tell you that your are failing and will not change my mind.

I suggest you stop wasting your time

18 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Not the Buddhists...I don't think.

Without a central figurehead...I doubt man will follow the rules.

This is also very true.

A central figurehead is what your religion poses. It can be a fictitious person, a idol or a principal. Man( of various religions) follow whatever their main character/idol/ god describes.

8 minutes ago, West said:

I want both victims and perpetrators to find the Lord. 

Which is why I want to see Tax payers fund a Bible for every home. Will save money in the end

OK, but do not include or try to convert me.

I do not want a bible or any other religious document.

[West]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I got my info from Googling. Not selective, just responding to specific questions and comments.

As I have said , to you, numerous times, I am not religious.

I find it very interesting that you take it upon yourself to seemingly trying to convert me to your way of thinking. Well , I can tell you that your are failing and will not change my mind.

I suggest you stop wasting your time

A central figurehead is what your religion poses. It can be a fictitious person, a idol or a principal. Man( of various religions) follow whatever their main character/idol/ god describes.

OK, but do not include or try to convert me.

I do not want a bible or any other religious document.

We will be sure to send you a Bible

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, West said:

We will be sure to send you a Bible

Please, don't waste the postage LOL

I can google it if I want one and for sure, I don't want one 

Edited April 1 by ExFlyer

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

What’s important to understand is that the most advanced and liberated societies had their origins in Christianity.

What's even more important to understand is that this only became true after they started embracing humanism and secular intellectualism, corresponding with a steady decline in the Churches' power and influence over its people.  

[West]

22 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

What's even more important to understand is that this only became true after they started embracing humanism and secular intellectualism, corresponding with a steady decline in the Churches' power and influence over its people.  

Leaving the edge of your field so that the poor could have something to eat, dietary laws to stop the spread of disease, covering the hole after you take a dump, year of jubilee (debt forgiveness) are all in the Bible

May seem like common sense and we've adapted thru technology but the premise is found in God's holy word and wouldn't have been widely known at the time of authoriship

Edited April 1 by West

[Michael Hardner]

38 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

What's even more important to understand is that this only became true after they started embracing humanism and secular intellectualism, corresponding with a steady decline in the Churches' power and influence over its people.  

What became true ?  They became liberated ?  Well... first they became *advanced* and gained the technology to subjugate non-European peoples by means of war and slavery.  Then they became 'liberated' which is to say they allowed various levels of white male Christianity to co-exist in governance by a business elite.  Then they slowly allowed other white males until they allowed some black folks in a limited way, then women.  

But the weaponry came first.

 

As to what Christianity had to do with it... nobody can agree.  Some people say it depends on when you start the clock, ie. Babylonians were dominant for a period, Romans were dominant for a period, Muslims were dominant for a period, then various European countries and maybe then America.  Maybe China will be next and we'll all be pondering why Confuciousism was so important in dominating the world.

Others say that it was the prevailing religion in a large productive landmass that had to allow coexistence of a multiplicity of religious factions and nationalities.  Or that Christianity protected private power and thus was more conducive to corporate investment and the Renaissance wealth boom vs. China's imperialism.  I think that was Jared Diamond.

Others say we whites are just more naturally brutal and we should be guilty (50%) or proud (50%) of that.

24 minutes ago, West said:

Leaving the edge of your field so that the poor could have something to eat...

If that was the key then what the hell happened ?

The hell... happened.

Oh wait, I'll bet it's feminism, socialism and flouride in the water...

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Considering only 30% of the world is christian, the bible is just another book on the rack LOL

Is there another book you can think of that has motivated 30 percent of the whole world to live their life a certain way? Hell even harry potter didn't manage that well

Pretending it's 'just another book' is kind of sutpid (which is expected of you so no shocks ) 

I'm not christian myself but you can't pretend that a) it's been an amazingly successful message and b) it actually overall describes a pretty good way to live. The 10 commandments are all pretty solid.  being accepting of others is generaly not a bad idea. And 'wouldn't it be great to be nice to people for a change' was such a revolutionary idea at the time they nailed him to a post for just suggesting it. Now we recognize it's probably a good idea overall.

It DOES form the basis for the culture and nations of the united states and Canada. 

Even if you don't believe in god at all the christian way of life is pretty decent by and large.  Now stop being a twat or i'll stone you to death