CdnFox Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 https://archive.ph/QTGt8#selection-2301.0-2301.109 Portraying a group of people as violent online – or comparing them to vermin, excrement or animals – could trigger a probe under the Canadian Human Rights Act, according to new provisions in the online harms bill, the Justice Department says. Some lawyers have warned that the ability to make such a civil complaint – with a lower burden of proof than a court of law – could have a chilling effect on free speech. Under the changes to the bill, people found guilty of posting hate speech could be forced to take down the post and pay victims up to $20,000 in compensation. And if they refuse to comply, for example by repeatedly reposting hate speech, they could face a fine of up to $50,000. So - calling conservatives chuds.' Saying the palestinians started the war. Saying the russians are agressive or war like Saying the woke are full of shit. Up to 20,000 dollars in fines. This is what we've come to, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 (edited) This is really an attack on Free Speech. Meh. Who sez Trudeau was kidding when he voiced his admiration for China's dictatorship, and his admiration for Castro? Edited March 7 by betsy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 Living up to discussions with my friend @Moonlight Graham I'm going to give my feelings on this as I also post some challenges and questions. First of all i agree this is bad. You can't slice the hair of online expression in a way to allow freedom and also stop people from insulting groups. It's just not doable. But there are some things that I think should be pointed out. A lot of the troubles we have with this topic relate to the fact that social media is a different beast, technically, than what we thought about in the past.. conservative commenter peter zeihan in a recent video pointed out that libel legislation came out of the development of the telegraph. That new medium made it easy for agents to whip up political momentum for causes much in the same way social media does. So something needs to be done, just not on the personal level imo. I would say separating individual expression versus those made by content companies, such as offshore propaganda mills funded by foreign agents, could be a good approach. Once we have conservative governments in place, new foreign agents who oppose them are going to be setting up bots and campaigns to spread lies and destabilize us. As long as we have countries, we have to have control over our public discussion space. But the best way to stop online hate is for people to be critical of each other and hold each other to account online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 53 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: But the best way to stop online hate is for people to be critical of each other and hold each other to account online. Who will hold our media to account, with what they broadcast? Why do you think people are so vulnerable to disinformation now? I don't trust the news like I used to, to inform me. Bias was always a part of the game, but never have I seen news take an interest in sensionalism vs information to get clicks, more than now. If there is a time this was worse, I wasn't born. Blaming China for spreading disinformation, is a lazy cop out. Its like me blaming a guy for flirting on my wife, as to why she gave them her digits. Take care of your business, and people won't consider the alternatives. The news, our politicians are no different. Trying to further control how we communicate when they can't do their jobs, comes across as a slap in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 People need to toughen up and grow thicker skin. So tired of people getting offended over everything. That is the main reason people say dumb shit, knowing someone is going to be running to the safe room. Western society has become so weak. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: 1. Who will hold our media to account, with what they broadcast? 2. Why do you think people are so vulnerable to disinformation now? 3. I don't trust the news like I used to, to inform me.Bias was always a part of the game, but never have I seen news take an interest in sensionalism vs information to get clicks, more than now. If there is a time this was worse, I wasn't born. 4. Blaming China for spreading disinformation, is a lazy cop out. 5.Trying to further control how we communicate when they can't do their jobs, comes across as a slap in the face. 1. Paid media follows the crowd, to minimize the number of pissed off audience. Public media serves two masters, so they have a bigger problem. 2. The gatekeeping doesn't work, and there are more ways than ever to reach a large audience. 3. Agreed. I hean interesting interview with Jesse Hirsch on the Toronto Miked podcast. He was ousted from the CBC for political reasons, but not exactly in the way you might think. He advocated for the abandonment of the idea of objectivity. I feel like that would work if you had actually diverse points of view chiming in. 4. Not just China. Small countries do it too. If you want borders, then to my mind you want borders on communication. 5. Except that we have laws against false advertising domestically. Why would we drop that idea now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Living up to discussions with my friend @Moonlight Graham I'm going to give my feelings on this as I also post some challenges and questions. First of all i agree this is bad. You can't slice the hair of online expression in a way to allow freedom and also stop people from insulting groups. It's just not doable. But there are some things that I think should be pointed out. A lot of the troubles we have with this topic relate to the fact that social media is a different beast, technically, than what we thought about in the past.. conservative commenter peter zeihan in a recent video pointed out that libel legislation came out of the development of the telegraph. That new medium made it easy for agents to whip up political momentum for causes much in the same way social media does. So something needs to be done, just not on the personal level imo. I would say separating individual expression versus those made by content companies, such as offshore propaganda mills funded by foreign agents, could be a good approach. Once we have conservative governments in place, new foreign agents who oppose them are going to be setting up bots and campaigns to spread lies and destabilize us. As long as we have countries, we have to have control over our public discussion space. I don't think anything needs to be done. we already have libel laws. It's already illegal to call for violence against other people or criminal acts. If we do anything it could be to have some means or model of pointing out posts that come from foreign sources so people can at least consider them in that light. Quote But the best way to stop online hate is for people to be critical of each other and hold each other to account online. Didn't you just threaten to put me on 'ignore' when i was critical of you and held you to account online? Hypcrisy - thy name is Michael. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suds Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 (edited) If they would have left the reporting of internet child pornography stand alone they would have had little to no opposition. Which makes me wonder what the real purpose of this Bill actual is. Edited March 7 by suds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suds Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 5 hours ago, CdnFox said: I don't think anything needs to be done. we already have libel laws. It's already illegal to call for violence against other people or criminal acts. Yep! What they basically want to do is force government approved speech or self censorship on everyone. And the commission that has been set up has all the tools to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, suds said: If they would have left the reporting of internet child pornography stand alone they would have had little to no opposition. Which makes me wonder what the real purpose of this Bill actual is. Justin has been pushing for censorship since day one. The libs have ALWAYS wanted to control the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 21 hours ago, CdnFox said: So - calling conservatives chuds.' Saying the palestinians started the war. Saying the russians are agressive or war like Saying the woke are full of shit. Up to 20,000 dollars in fines. This is what we've come to, Are any of those things "portraying a group of people as violent online or comparing them to vermin, excrement or animals"? No? Then yuou're wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Are any of those things "portraying a group of people as violent online or comparing them to vermin, excrement or animals"? Yep. All of them. Show me proof the courts won't see that saying someone is 'full of shit' isn't comparing them to excrement. Quote No? Yes, if you heard someone say no it was the voices in your head again. Quote Then yuou're wrong. So that must mean i was right You kind of suck at this don't you. Edited March 8 by CdnFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Yep. All of them. Oh right. I forgot you don't know how to read. Quote Show me proof the courts won't see that saying someone is 'full of shit' isn't comparing them to excrement. Yes, if you heard someone say no it was the voices in your head again. "Show me proof of a hypothetical" you are deranged. Quote So that must mean i was right You kind of suck at this don't you. Not as much as your mom does down at the Wal Mart bathrooms. Edited March 8 by Black Dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 50 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Oh right. I forgot you don't know how to read. I wrote it. It would have nothing to do with my reading skills. oh - right. I forgot you were retarded. Quote "Show me proof of a hypothetical" you are deranged. Ahhh - considering you were the one who made the claim that would be YOU who was derranged You're quite correct that you can't show the courts won't say that counts. So - you were wrong. Quote Not as much as your mom does down at the Wal Mart bathrooms. LOL - well you've sure shown which of us is the mature and logical one As i've noted before, highschool sex joke insults seem to be your way of admitting you lost like a biatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 16 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Who will hold our media to account, with what they broadcast? Why do you think people are so vulnerable to disinformation now? I don't trust the news like I used to, to inform me. Bias was always a part of the game, but never have I seen news take an interest in sensionalism vs information to get clicks, more than now. If there is a time this was worse, I wasn't born. Blaming China for spreading disinformation, is a lazy cop out. Its like me blaming a guy for flirting on my wife, as to why she gave them her digits. Take care of your business, and people won't consider the alternatives. The news, our politicians are no different. Trying to further control how we communicate when they can't do their jobs, comes across as a slap in the face. Disinformation is a different issue than online hate. This bill doesn't address disinformation, unless its hateful. That said, yeah the news has a lot more bias now, but I also don't believe hardly anything on twitter. It's amazing how many people on twitter lie and spin things to convince people of their point. Twitter is like an app for information con-jobs. And it's not just bots and foreign agents, it's all sorts of regular people with political agendas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 19 hours ago, PIK said: Western society has become so weak. People like Putin, and others of his type, are observing. If we go to world War, with soldiers more concerned of inclusion than fighting for their country, we are f***ed. Boggles my mind that people feel entitled to go through life, not being offended. The sheer volume of kids I see now, with social anxiety so bad, they need their parents for everything, is astounding. I took a risk and hired a couple young employees, and it was either they were woke and felt their caused meant more than their job being done. That, or sheer incompetence, and anxiety about everything. I have anxiety too, but only had to be told something once. Most kids I worked with, still had that ability to figure s*** out. I think that also is slipping away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: 1. That said, yeah the news has a lot more bias now, but I also don't believe hardly anything on twitter. It's amazing how many people on twitter lie and spin things to convince people of their point. Twitter is like an app for information con-jobs. And it's not just bots and foreign agents, it's all sorts of regular people with political agendas. 1. I think it's more that we're more aware of mainstream news bias. The News organizations are under much more scrutiny so they have more fact checkers and lawyers involved, resulting in less bias than 30 years ago. But because of all these new perspectives, mainstream news seems like propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 11 hours ago, Black Dog said: Oh right. I forgot you don't know how to read. "Show me proof of a hypothetical" you are deranged. Not as much as your mom does down at the Wal Mart bathrooms. A Libbie attacking a guy's mother. How disgusting. How hypocritical. How cowardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I think it's more that we're more aware of mainstream news bias. The News organizations are under much more scrutiny so they have more fact checkers and lawyers involved, resulting in less bias than 30 years ago. But because of all these new perspectives, mainstream news seems like propaganda. That's because it is propaganda Mike. Just call it what it is and move on before you further damage your own reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: That's because it is propaganda Mike. Just call it what it is and move on before you further damage your own reputation. Mainstream media includes newspapers, so you have to include that bias. Internet and YouTube journalists are fine but they don't fund deep investigation. So the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the ArriveCan, Truth and Reconciliation Day hooky, the WE organization scandal... these were uncovered by The Globe and Mail, Global News and the CBC. I assert that there are biases in mainstream reporting. You assertion that "it is propaganda" is exaggeration, hyperbole and so I don't take your comments seriously. Be a little more real next time, more serious. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 15 hours ago, Black Dog said: Are any of those things "portraying a group of people as violent online or comparing them to vermin, excrement or animals"? No? Then yuou're wrong. I have often referred to the Russians as "servile donkey-people". Does this count? 🥺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: A Libbie attacking a guy's mother. How disgusting. How hypocritical. How cowardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Disinformation is a different issue than online hate. This bill doesn't address disinformation, unless its hateful. Without cast iron definitions, which you will never get, all it takes is for someone to decide that all disinformation is hateful.We both know that can and probably will happen given time. Edited March 8 by CdnFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: A Libbie attacking a guy's mother. How disgusting. How hypocritical. How cowardly. Well you have to remember that slimes don't have mothers so he doesn't know what it's like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Mainstream media includes newspapers, so you have to include that bias. Internet and YouTube journalists are fine but they don't fund deep investigation. So the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the ArriveCan, Truth and Reconciliation Day hooky, the WE organization scandal... these were uncovered by The Globe and Mail, Global News and the CBC. I assert that there are biases in mainstream reporting. You assertion that "it is propaganda" is exaggeration, hyperbole and so I don't take your comments seriously. Be a little more real next time, more serious. Thanks for posting. I had to think about this one Mike, but you've got a point there. The hyperbole is thick as thieves these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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