User Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, athos said: Rule number 1: If your "allies" don't dare to fight, but they ask you to fight. Something is wrong. They are not your allies. You should not fight their proxy war. It's not worth dying for US/NATO/globalist interests. Who is the "your" here and who are the "allies" here? But it is worth dying for Russian globalist interests? Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: In leftist media, Russians can't gain an inch of land, because it's not theirs. This is common sense to most people. Doing the right thing has nothing to do with "right or left." One powerful country invading a smaller country without provocation is illegal under all International laws and codes. The fact thar you associate support for Ukraine with "the left" just proves how out of touch with reality you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 49 minutes ago, User said: Who is the "your" here and who are the "allies" here? But it is worth dying for Russian globalist interests? Don't feed the trolls. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 8 Author Report Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: One powerful country invading a smaller country without provocation is illegal under all International laws and codes. Russia is illegally occupying Ukraine. No doubt about this one. Haven't followed all that many international codes and standards. This is well known, too. This isn't the argument. The argument is what to do about it. We are already past the point of no return. You're already occupied. Your argument, is refuse to give an inch (even though they have taken a foot) and keep the war ongoing until Russia somehow sees more use in ceding all of their gains. Begs for forgiveness, and bends the knee to Ukraine. Again, based on their history of clearly doing the opposite. Reason in my opinion, is understanding that Russia won't cede an inch unless they got something in return. The longer the war goes on, the more of Ukraine will be destroyed. This favors Russia. This is wrong, but the reality is you have a stronger military posted in Ukraine. Unless allies join in, it will be more of the same for this battle. Ukraine buying time, with the weapons that they are sent. I get my house robbed at gunpoint, and am not focused on teaching them a lesson and getting my entire family killed to teach it based on principle. Of course the principle, is Russia has no business taking what isn't theirs. My first priority is their survival. Concessions tend to be easier to make, staring down a barrel of a gun. You lost the territory, so common sense would be negotiating how much you could stomach losing, and what could end hostilities for good. IE part of the concessions Russia would have to make, such as allowing the immediate entry into NATO of Ukraine or similar protections. Otherwise, Ukraine literally has no choice but to continue. My point is, right now they have the choice. Continue buying time, when time may end up hurting you worse or get the best possible deal done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 19 hours ago, User said: He is not dismissing them, he is rightly trying to point out the insignificance of them... making the point that the cost to them in manpower is quite significant. You can look at a map for the past 2 years and see that the front lines have been relatively stagnant with tiny gains on each side back and forth. Yes, Russia has been pushing harder this past month, but even then, its gains have been paltry. This has been the story of the war, yet it comes across from you and others on here that somehow after 3 years of this stalemate this past month is all we should care about and it is spelling the end for Ukraine. The point I have made is that has been the story from some since day one... that *this* moment is the end for Ukraine. It has been the end of Ukraine for going on 3 years now and at this rate of advancement by Russia, will still be going on for years... Those gains may be insignificant to him,and others but to ukraine they hold a much different meaning, it is ground that they will have to regained, and in the process lose more men and equipment.....in the last 4 or 5 months Russia gains have surpassed all gains Ukraine made during their offensive...which means Ukraine has gained little to no ground in the last 3 years, and at what cost....well it has cost them according to US intel sources 70,000 dead, and over 170,000 wounded about 20 % of it's total military strength.... It's lack of progress has NATO dithering over how much support it is really giving...there are lots of talks about a new wave of support coming, but very little has arrived and what has arrived is not enough to swing the russian momentum... So right now Ukraine is bleeding resources faster than they can be replaced...And Russian losses of men and equipment are insignificant to Russia chain of command, have they changed tactics, no, have they replaced the chain of command no, Russia does not give a rats a$$ how many they loss in a day no, as long as they making gains...thats not me saying that or cheerleading for russia, that is just facts... Russia has been pushing hard since the Republicans stall Ukraines aid package, and the rest of NATO failed to take up the slack...and Russia has been making gains every since... It is not all about the last month, it has been about the last 5 or 6 months...NATO support has dwindled to the point Ukraine can not go on the offensive that really matters...it does not have the equipment , ammo , to do any of that in fact it is struggling on defense... I want to be very clear here, Ukrainian forces have done an assume job at holding back Russia...But after 3 years of constant war, has taken an effect on Ukrainian forces, and it's manpower...NATO is sitting back talking a good game, but in most cases is just watching it all unfold...NATO support is the only one that can save more of Ukraine from falling to the Russia...I'm not cheer leading or pushing any point for the Russia propaganda machine... Everyone on this post has stated that NATO support is lacking...everyone knows that Ukraine is losing equipment faster than it can be replaced... SO maybe i'm just a dumb grunt...but maybe someone can explain to me, how the lack of NATO support, lack of equipment and munitions , a tired military how all that translates in to victory...when Russia which seems to be at the moment enjoying advantages in manpower, munitions and equipment and really does not care how many people or machines it losses....And when you take all of this into account it does not paint a pretty picture, at least not positive in ukraines direction... Given NATO history how long do you think they are going to keep on supporting Ukraine, with the numbers they have been...keeping in mind that NATO has other interests around the globe, lets not forget China's threat to retake Taiwan in the up coming years...add to that NATO rearming process, and now how the Middle east has basically come out in support of Iran and their terrorist organization...throw all that into the same bowl mix it up really good and now tell me Can NATO continue to support Ukraine at its current level in the next couple of years... and even it it does, what state is ukraines military going to be in, and what gains would russia have made in that time period... If you were in charge of Ukraine, what options would you be considering right now... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 20 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Define critical mass. During World War 2, the Soviets lost 25,000,000 people, or approximately 15% of their total population, yet they never surrendered to Nazi Germany, and were ultimately victorious at the end. In layman's terms the Soviet Union lost 75 times the percentage of people that present day Ukraine has lost. And yet already you are talking about Ukraine reaching "critical mass" where they do not have enough manpower to continue on. There are many similarities between the Soviet Union from 1941-45, and post-2022 Ukraine. Both were attacked because of their enemy's political ideology, and both knew that if they were to surrender, their enemies would commit genocide against them. Ukrainians remember the Holodomor, and want to prevent it from happening again. It amazes me how many people fall for the BS Russian narrative of the war. You continue to show me that you are having reading comprehension issues...I did not say anything of what your accusing me of saying...hard to debate someone that can not comprehend what your saying. Quote in this time of the war civilian casualties have not yet reached critical mass , or enough to make a difference Quote I've been telling you all along that it is this resource that is under threat, it is about the fighting age men and women that are fighting the war, they can't win a war of attrition with Russia... Your comments about how many Russia died in wwii is a moot point, Ukraine is not Russia nor does it have the same type of government, Stalin was a mass murderer, he ruled with fear and death....Ukraine is nothing like Russia...Russia still today does not give a shit about it's soldiers or equipment losses... Ukraine itself can not win this war alone...Thats not Russian narrative Thats a fact...if it was true Ukraine would have pushed Russia out by now... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: Those gains may be insignificant to him,and others but to ukraine they hold a much different meaning, Yes... of course, every inch has a meaning to the Ukrainians... that wasn't the discussion though. 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: which means Ukraine has gained little to no ground in the last 3 years Only if you discount the initial invasion push. 9 minutes ago, Army Guy said: well it has cost them according to US intel sources 70,000 dead, and over 170,000 wounded about 20 % of it's total military strength.... And... how much has Russia lost? That is the point being made here. That Russia is losing A LOT more to make the paltry gains they are making. 11 minutes ago, Army Guy said: have they replaced the chain of command no, You just made the opposite claim 2 pages ago... "the last senior general was relieved because of no progress" And yes, Russia has had to go begging for munitions from other countries, they have had to use prisoners, changing conscription policy, they are having to adapt to continue this massive war effort on their end as well. The way you try to characterize this is woefully exaggerated. 19 minutes ago, Army Guy said: but maybe someone can explain to me NATO has been helping and we have been ramping up our help with plans into 2025... NATO has also been increasing what kinds and types of equipment they are supplying. NATO just recently pledged to keep pouring weapons into Ukraine for the next year as well. 22 minutes ago, Army Guy said: If you were in charge of Ukraine, what options would you be considering right now... I am not even sure what point you are really pressing at here. NATO and US needs to continue to do more and keep the pressure on. Ukraine needs to keep fighting, and take more of the war to Russians. Fight smart, make Russia pay in as much blood as you can. 1 Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 4 hours ago, Perspektiv said: I get my house robbed at gunpoint, and am not focused on teaching them a lesson and getting my entire family killed to teach it based on principle. Of course the principle, is Russia has no business taking what isn't theirs. My first priority is their survival. Concessions tend to be easier to make, staring down a barrel of a gun. This is about the most convoluted and ridiculous analogy of the Ukraine War I have heard from anyone on this forum, and that is saying something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your comments about how many Russia died in wwii is a moot point, Ukraine is not Russia nor does it have the same type of government, Stalin was a mass murderer, he ruled with fear and death....Ukraine is nothing like Russia...Russia still today does not give a shit about it's soldiers or equipment losses... I find it ironic and unintentionally hilarious that you keep mentioning how Ukraine does not have the population or manpower to fight for too much longer, and when it is pointed out that the Ukrainians lost just over 1% of what Soviet Russia lost in WW2, you do a 180, change gears, and say "it's irrelevant to talk about war casualties. You have some bizarre ideas about different ethnic groups. You seem to think Russia will fight to it's last man, yet you are implying Ukraine will need to surrender, or in your words "negotiate" with the Russians and Putin soon. PS...it should be noted that the vast majority (90%) of people that fled Ukraine were women and children, not military aged men. Somewhat ironically, the majority of Russians who left their country did so to avoid conscription. Edited July 8 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 On 7/3/2024 at 8:41 AM, Nationalist said: They can and if pushed...they will use nukes.! Is Ukraine really worth that? Ridding the world of dictators is. If we don't our kids will never have a chance against gross economic inequality and climate change - which are basically two sides of the same coin. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: Ridding the world of dictators is. If we don't our kids will never have a chance against gross economic inequality and climate change - which are basically two sides of the same coin. Oh Gawd...the climate-cult is here... 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 50 minutes ago, User said: Yes... of course, every inch has a meaning to the Ukrainians... that wasn't the discussion though. Only if you discount the initial invasion push. And... how much has Russia lost? That is the point being made here. That Russia is losing A LOT more to make the paltry gains they are making. You just made the opposite claim 2 pages ago... "the last senior general was relieved because of no progress" And yes, Russia has had to go begging for munitions from other countries, they have had to use prisoners, changing conscription policy, they are having to adapt to continue this massive war effort on their end as well. The way you try to characterize this is woefully exaggerated. NATO has been helping and we have been ramping up our help with plans into 2025... NATO has also been increasing what kinds and types of equipment they are supplying. NATO just recently pledged to keep pouring weapons into Ukraine for the next year as well. I am not even sure what point you are really pressing at here. NATO and US needs to continue to do more and keep the pressure on. Ukraine needs to keep fighting, and take more of the war to Russians. Fight smart, make Russia pay in as much blood as you can. What was the discussion ? that Russian gains are meaningless... in my view Thats not the case...if your going to narrow the scope of the discussion then describe the arcs of fire.. My point is this, the only group talking about Russia loses is you guys, and Ukraine...Do you think the Russian general in charge or Putin are so concerned about losses that they are considering another change of command, different tactics, the last Russian general that was replaced was fired for no gains at all...I have not heard of any rumblings about replacing the Russian general for failing to take enough ground have you ?.... Yes Russia has reached out to other nations for assistance....they have like ukraine just incorporated the use prisoners , also changing their conscription ages and edibility standards. It all boils down to this question can how long can Ukraine manage to survive with this level of NATO support ? Where is the line in the sand where ukraine says enough we have lost enough territory ? I'm asking becasue in my opinion they are close to that now within the next year or year and 1/2...thats not just my best guess but some American generals comments as well... OK so NATO has been investing into ukraines fight...no one is saying any different....I think the results of that support are pretty clear for anyone to see......they are keeping Russia from over running the country, Russia is still gaining ground, they may be small gains...MORE support by NATO could stop those gains or allow Ukraine to go on the offensive...that level of support is not been talked about until 2025... MY point has ALWAYS been NATO needs to step up in a big way to allow Ukraine to throw Russia from Ukraine...right now i think everyone agrees NATO could do a lot more...but instead talks alot but is lacking action or equipment on the ground... If NATO is not going to step up and allow Ukraine to win this conflict then Ukraine needs to look at other options... NATO wants the same thing it wants Ukraine to bleed Russia, but it also does not want to poke the bear any more than it needs to...hence why the support is just enough for stalemate...at best...Ukraine can not win a battle of attrition with Russia... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: What was the discussion ? that Russian gains are meaningless... in my view Thats not the case...if your going to narrow the scope of the discussion then describe the arcs of fire.. Me: "He is not dismissing them, he is rightly trying to point out the insignificance of them... making the point that the cost to them in manpower is quite significant. You can look at a map for the past 2 years and see that the front lines have been relatively stagnant with tiny gains on each side back and forth. " You: Yeah, but every inch matters to the Ukrainians! (paraphrase) Seriously, you are just being obtuse now. 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: My point is this, the only group talking about Russia loses is you guys, and Ukraine... ROFL, yes, in a thread filled with Putin sycophants and cheerleaders for Russia... we dare mention that there is a cost to Russian forces... and to you as well, since YOU are seemingly ignoring them too. I am not talking with a Russian general.. am I? I am not privy to the inner discussions of Russian generals and Putin, but I am certainly not under the belief that none of them care to mention or care about battlefield losses at all, as you are characterizing here. This is not WWII in the Seige of Leningrad. You tried to claim there were not any changes nor any changes in leadership, 2 pages after you claimed changes in leadership. Yes, Putin has repeatedly shaken up the command as they have repeatedly failed to deliver. 10 minutes ago, Army Guy said: It all boils down to this question can how long can Ukraine manage to survive with this level of NATO support ? Not very long at all... so good thing NATO has been continuing to step up in continued support. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 19 minutes ago, User said: Me: "He is not dismissing them, he is rightly trying to point out the insignificance of them... making the point that the cost to them in manpower is quite significant. You can look at a map for the past 2 years and see that the front lines have been relatively stagnant with tiny gains on each side back and forth. " You: Yeah, but every inch matters to the Ukrainians! (paraphrase) Seriously, you are just being obtuse now. ROFL, yes, in a thread filled with Putin sycophants and cheerleaders for Russia... we dare mention that there is a cost to Russian forces... and to you as well, since YOU are seemingly ignoring them too. I am not talking with a Russian general.. am I? I am not privy to the inner discussions of Russian generals and Putin, but I am certainly not under the belief that none of them care to mention or care about battlefield losses at all, as you are characterizing here. This is not WWII in the Seige of Leningrad. You tried to claim there were not any changes nor any changes in leadership, 2 pages after you claimed changes in leadership. Yes, Putin has repeatedly shaken up the command as they have repeatedly failed to deliver. Not very long at all... so good thing NATO has been continuing to step up in continued support. We will see. BBC reports this week don't sound promising. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Where is the line in the sand where ukraine says enough we have lost enough territory ? I'm asking becasue in my opinion they are close to that now within the next year or year and 1/2... Oh for Chirst sakes... Ukraine has lost the equivalent of land that would make up `1% of the "gigantic" state of New Jersey. In other words, a completely insignificant gain by what was supposedly the World's second most powerful military. Unless you consider the outhouse at Yuri's farm, a major military victory. 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: thats not just my best guess but some American generals comments as well... Douglas MacGregor and Scott Ritter don't count. One is a drug addict, and the other is a child-luring paedophile. You need to find a better source than the "Scott and Dougie Clown Show." Edited July 8 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 (edited) n/m Edited July 9 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: What was the discussion ? that Russian gains are meaningless... in my view Thats not the case...if your going to narrow the scope of the discussion then describe the arcs of fire.. They're meters per day. I offered to review those maps with you and show you, because you keep referring to them but can't seem to read them properly.... Unsurprisingly, you ignored my offer, just like you avoided any of the other points I made. 🤷♂️ Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 8 Author Report Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: This is It isn't any less logical than continuing a war, that is a standstill with a more powerful foe, that is continuing to destroy your infrastructure. There literally is no purpose to continue without the consideration for negotiations. Making "Russia spill blood", ignores that this blood is shared with Ukraine. Your manufacturing outrage won't change that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, User said: 1... Me: "He is not dismissing them, he is rightly trying to point out the insignificance of them... making the point that the cost to them in manpower is quite significant. 2...You can look at a map for the past 2 years and see that the front lines have been relatively stagnant with tiny gains on each side back and forth. " 3...You: Yeah, but every inch matters to the Ukrainians! (paraphrase) Seriously, you are just being obtuse now. 4...ROFL, yes, in a thread filled with Putin sycophants and cheerleaders for Russia... we dare mention that there is a cost to Russian forces... and to you as well, since YOU are seemingly ignoring them too. I am not talking with a Russian general.. am I? 5....I am not privy to the inner discussions of Russian generals and Putin, but I am certainly not under the belief that none of them care to mention or care about battlefield losses at all, as you are characterizing here. This is not WWII in the Seige of Leningrad. 6.... You tried to claim there were not any changes nor any changes in leadership, 2 pages after you claimed changes in leadership. Yes, Putin has repeatedly shaken up the command as they have repeatedly failed to deliver. 7....Not very long at all... so good thing NATO has been continuing to step up in continued support. 1....To which i have agreed, the cost has been high, i don't think anyone is arguing that point...but not high enough for a demand in change of tactics, or strategy, or change of command what do you think that means. ?..well it means the losses are not the priority here making gains is.. 2....That being said Ukraine is also taking heavy losses as well, in comparison to the size of their military, and pool of replacements. 3...It is not my intention to be obtuse or anything else for that matter these are my opinions, nothing more i have provided many sources that i think back those opinions up...I'm not cheerleading for anything russian, nor am i using any Russian propaganda...I base those opinions on being an infanteer for most of my life, but in the end they are mine and mine alone... 4...It may be filled with putin's sycophants, or maybe they are just people with opinions that differ from yours. I don't think anyone is discounting Russia losses , except perhaps the Russians themselves...which has ben a talking point of mine, Throughout Russian history, it has a much different cultural view of it's soldiers than how the west looks at there's... In the case of this conflict can you seriously tell me Russia is concerned with its men welfare...or does it's priority's lay somewhere else...Since this new Russian general has taken over the tactics that are being used are the same as in WWII, use wave after wave of soldiers until they push them back destroy them...gains are being made...yes at great cost...nobody is arguing that.....I'm merely pointing out, that Russia's metric for success is not how many men they loss...but has ground been taken...while in the west our militaries rely on causality reports...No i'm not a Russian General, just a retired Canadian Soldier who has a much better pension than some Russian soldier.... 5... your right it is all assumption on my part, but actions on the ground tell another story...If one really cares about combat losses one does not keep on smashing ones head against the wall expecting different results each time, even a private can tell you after the 10 th assaults' maybe a change in tactics is call for....Remember the last Russian general was sacked due to lack of progress.... this general is still in charge, i'm sure he is hated by the troops but putin has not called for his removal becasue progress is being made.... 6....you misunderstood what i said...This current general the one that is responsible for all the gains and all the deaths to russian soldiers , there has been no talks or rumors of his dismissal, the chain of command seem happy with the results.......even Russian media are not complaining....the last general was sacked due to lack of progress... 7..... again i think we are on the same page...current NATO support is not cutting the mustard the results of the last 6 months or so are telling, the very fact Russia is making gains however small tells me that support needs to be increased if ukraine hopes to maintain what they have.......increased much more if Ukraine wants to take back captured territory. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 6 minutes ago, Moonbox said: They're meters per day. I offered to review those maps with you and show you, because you keep referring to them but can't seem to read them properly.... Unsurprisingly, you ignored my offer, just like you avoided any of the other points I made. 🤷♂️ give me some time moonbox, i'm not hiding, i'm working on your and others reply Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 8 Report Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: Oh for Chirst sakes... Ukraine has lost the equivalent of land that would make up `1% of the "gigantic" state of New Jersey. In other words, a completely insignificant gain by what was supposedly the World's second most powerful military. Unless you consider the outhouse at Yuri's farm, a major military victory. Douglas MacGregor and Scott Ritter don't count. One is a drug addict, and the other is a child-luring paedophile. You need to find a better source than the "Scott and Dougie Clown Show." I don't recall using those generals as sources, the sources i used were British General sir Richard Barrons, from BBC article and US general Chris Cavoli also a BBC article....I spend more time correcting you on what i said than answering others that at least know how to use the quote function. want me to respond stop pulling shit from your ass... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 19 hours ago, Moonbox said: Your sources and the information they provide are not the problem. It's the conclusions that you draw from them. That's a pretty goofy thing to say when you're not even acknowledging the points I'm making. No it really didn't. The map you provided was an interactive present-day outline of the battlefront. That's it. It doesn't illustrate "recent gains". They do archive previous days' maps, however, so we can do that comparison for ourselves. I'll tell you what. Why don't you pick a point on that map, anywhere, and I'll go dig up the old ones from June so we can compare them side to side. How does that sound? Let's see how great you're doing backing up your posts with your sources.... I've gone back through all my posts that have sources attached, and i'm sorry i can not find where my conclusions have gone sideways from my sources...perhaps you can provide an examples so i can see where i'm or you are going wrong. I thought the map said it all, the areas marked in yellow are recent gains, those in red Russia controlled, blue was Ukraine counter attacks. I'll find another source... below is an updated map that shows Russian gains in the last 24 hours, marked with pink with doted border, , yellow areas are gains but unconfirmed, if you don't want to use this map source i'll find another. Until then the cities i pick are Around the bakhmut area, Chasir yar,lysychansk area, and Donetsk area...these are the areas Russia is currently concentrating on.... https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/36a7f6a6f5a9448496de641cf64bd375 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: I spend more time correcting you on what i said than answering others that at least know how to use the quote function. want me to respond stop pulling shit from your ass... Once again, you make a claim, then get called out for it. Instead of attempting to show us all the land Russia has captured in the past several months, you go on and on about nothing. I am beginning to feel like I am in a Seinfeld episode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, Perspektiv said: It isn't any less logical than continuing a war, that is a standstill with a more powerful foe, that is continuing to destroy your infrastructure. There literally is no purpose to continue without the consideration for negotiations. Making "Russia spill blood", ignores that this blood is shared with Ukraine. Today Russia deliberately attacked a Children's Hospital in Kyiv. A Children's Hospital. The Ukrainians are literally fighting for their lives, and it's obvious to us that are not brainwashed by Russian propaganda. that if Ukraine surrenders, as you would like them to, it's becoming very difficult to argue that the Russians will not exact a terrible revenge of the Ukrainian population. Please stop with your bullshit about "Russian blood spilled." It's intellectually dishonest, and cowardly. Edited July 9 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athos Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 14 hours ago, User said: Who is the "your" here and who are the "allies" here? But it is worth dying for Russian globalist interests? You cannot understand and solve the equation if one variable is missing and that is USA. For the USA, the war in Ukraine is strategic, and for Russia, it is a question of survival. Your view of that war is ideological, while mine is rational and practical, including a proposal to achieve peace: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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