Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: was a reliable source for your claims RE "A link I must approve of, but never will." Trolling 101. 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: Warfare is like a game of chess, it is very difficult to guess what the enemy is going to do hour after hour, one can move troops around the board to gain advantages elsewhere, force the enemy to also move pieces around.... If we liken the Ukrainian war to a game of Chess, then Russia's strategy is to lose both knights and 3 pawns to take out 1 of the enemy's pawns, and "advance" 1 square on the board. The idea that there's some greater strategy at work here, and that the schwerpunkt will later become clear is a joke. These are meat assaults, because meat assaults are all the Russian military is capable of. We haven't seen this level of military incompetence and ineffectiveness probably since Santa Anna and the Alamo. 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: In Russia lives are cheap, and they have many of them, the question i have asked Why is russia using these tactics Because Putin is desperate. Manpower is the only real advantage Russia has, and Putin hopes that he can convince gullible dupes in the West that this is a sustainable, war-winning tactic. Russia isn't China or India. They can't afford to lose to lose 1000 troops a day, and this big spring/summer offensive was meant to take advantage of the delays in western support, which has started arriving but still mostly to come. "Advancing is advancing" though...battalions of dead Russian soldiers to capture a few square kilometers is apparently sound and war-winning military doctrine. 🙄 Edited July 12 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: I am going to repeat the same thing over and over, to avoid providing a source for my claim that workplace productivity increases (short-term) if employees are intimidated, and treated horribly. I guess that means that you have no proof of your claims, and pulled it out of your ass. What else is new.... Edited July 12 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 6 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: What else is new You inventing an imaginary argument, because you have nothing to bring to this one? Not presenting where I made a sweeping statement you're claiming I made, and further running from it because you were called out on it? And watch you predictably put your own words in this bubble to represent mine, while demanding I present you with links for some reason, rather predictably. You're literally proving my point every time you post. I hope you understand irony o_O. In 4, 3, 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: 😪 Still waiting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Still waiting.... Thanks for proving my point o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: In Russia lives are cheap, and they have many of them, the question i have asked Why is russia using these tactics,, if it concerns them then we should see a reluctance to use these tactics, and yet across the entire front we see 10 to 20 attacks a day...resulting in heavy losses and while these attacks are very expensive on russian lives, they are also expensive of Ukrainian lives and resources...consuming them faster than NATO can support.. Exactly. This puts more pressure on Ukraine, as the west is starting to show cracks, in losing patience due to a lack of results vs the investment being provided. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 11 hours ago, Perspektiv said: RE "A link I must approve of, but never will." Trolling 101. 🤡 Right...so in your mind, a Rumble video carries the same weight as validated and widely sources news. I suppose claims made on Reddit are also valid for citation now? 🙄 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, Perspektiv said: I admit. I am full of shit, and cannot produce a source for my claim. At least you finally admit that you were wrong. Edited July 12 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 2 hours ago, Moonbox said: I suppose claims made on Reddit are also valid for citation now? If what is being claimed is accurate then sure. I look at the validity of the claim, vs where it originated from. IE if you told me Britney Spears died, and showed me a Reddit post, I would question it, but would look into it. If I couldn't confirm your post, considering her star power, a quick Google search would suffice, I would know it was bogus. I won't dismiss something because of where it comes form. I will dismiss it based on its accuracy. I am eluding more to this nature some have, in dismissing news because its a highly conservative or democratic or liberal source. You know, vs point out the bias if applicable or the falsehoods vs that being worthy of dismissal based on where it comes from. I have found tons of accurate stories following comedians. If anything, a lot of what comedians will push will be funny because of how brutally true that it is. Ridiculing views that don't align with yours to me is lazy. Its dismissing without bringing any merit or better argument to the table. What happened to picking apart the logic and argument and presenting a better one? Some prefer the easy views, likes or validation of cutting corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 43 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: At least you finally admit that you were wrong. You set quite the low bar, when you're essentially the Cathy Newman of posting on here o_O. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) 19 hours ago, Moonbox said: If we liken the Ukrainian war to a game of Chess, then Russia's strategy is to lose both knights and 3 pawns to take out 1 of the enemy's pawns, and "advance" 1 square on the board. The idea that there's some greater strategy at work here, and that the schwerpunkt will later become clear is a joke. These are meat assaults, because meat assaults are all the Russian military is capable of. We haven't seen this level of military incompetence and ineffectiveness probably since Santa Anna and the Alamo. Because Putin is desperate. Manpower is the only real advantage Russia has, and Putin hopes that he can convince gullible dupes in the West that this is a sustainable, war-winning tactic. Russia isn't China or India. They can't afford to lose to lose 1000 troops a day, and this big spring/summer offensive was meant to take advantage of the delays in western support, which has started arriving but still mostly to come. "Advancing is advancing" though...battalions of dead Russian soldiers to capture a few square kilometers is apparently sound and war-winning military doctrine. 🙄 Russia used these tactics in WWII, and just overwhelmed German forces with numbers...Nobody's accusing Russia of being a military tactical genius although they have had their moments... I don't think he is desperate at this point, he is grasping at straws, but he does still enjoy a few advantages over Ukraine such as resources, manpower, but he is developing resources from other nations as well... It not a matter of being gullible to Russia propaganda, its a matter of looking at the facts right now, and making decisions based on facts...Currently Ukraine can not win a war of attrition...Not without a stronger and steady supply of NATO support...without this Ukraine will be whittled down enough to make steady Russian gains... Right now i don't think Russia is to concerned with losing 1000 men a day, they are in the midst of a huge recruiting campaign as we speak...when current recruitment is on average 1000 people per day... Quote He stressed that recruitment remains stable at an average rate of about 1,000 people per day. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240705_32/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-concert-attack-army-recruitment-ukraine-conscription-rcna146151 I have never said or agreed with these Russian tactics, they lack imagination, initiative , they give leaders on the ground no room to maneuver or take advantage of the enemies mistakes...That being said there is no question Russia is gaining ground...it is painfully slow, and very costly but it is also chipping away at Ukrainian resources at the same time... And when NATO steps up it's support Ukraine will have the resources to take away most of the advantages russia but right now that is not happening...and what NATO is supplying is not in great enough numbers... Edited July 12 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 14 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: I guess that means that you have no proof of your claims, and pulled it out of your ass. What else is new.... This is rich, way to rich for me...i mean come on man, you are the master of pulling stuff out of your rectum...have you even provided one source in this entire post..., Moonbox has done all the real lifting here, your just that yappy dog in the background...you could at least contribute something meaningful .. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: If what is being claimed is accurate then sure. I look at the validity of the claim, vs where it originated from. I see. So logic works backwards for you. Rather than citation being used to help establish the accuracy of the claim, you do it in reverse. You decide whether the claim is accurate first, and the "sources" that support it are thereby validated, regardless of how little credibility they have. What a comfy worldview that must be. 🙄 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: If what is being claimed is accurate then sure. I look at the validity of the claim, vs where it originated from. You have no idea how to decipher a legitimate news story, from a story that is composed of lies for propaganda purposes. For all we know, you probably follow OANN and InfoWARS. It's typical of tankies that are sympathetic to Russia, not to know the difference between a news item based on facts, and a propaganda piece based on complete fabriactions. 3 minutes ago, Moonbox said: I see. So logic works backwards for you. Rather than citation being used to help establish the accuracy of the claim, you do it in reverse. You decide whether the claim is accurate first, and the "sources" that support it are thereby validated, regardless of how little credibility they have. What a comfy worldview that must be. 🙄 Vladimir Putin would be proud of useful simpletons, like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Russia used these tactics in WWII, and just overwhelmed German forces with numbers... lol....unintentionally hilarous statemnt. The German army was destroying the Soviet army, and advancing at rocket speed through Eastern Europe, until they were literally just over 100km from Moscow. It became so bad that many of Stalin's generals told him to abandon the capital. One thing stopped the Germans in 1941, and again in 1942. Winter. It had nothing to do with numbers. The German army was under the assumption that Russia would surrender by late fall. They never anticipated providing their troops clothing, or any other supplies that would ahve allowed them to continue advancing. Even the tanks were woefully adequate to trek through the harsh Soviet terrain in -30C weather. The Russian climate stopped the German army. It had absolutely nothing to do with Russian "numbers" Edited July 12 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: you are the master of pulling stuff out of your rectum Yes, but it doesn't count if done by a gloved hand, while in a glass house. Leave it to that poster, their farts smell like Channel perfume. Reminds me of a high school friend that didn't flush after taking s***s, because he knew where they came from. Its let it mellow when its yellow. Still sketchy, but socially acceptable. For some odd reason, that friendship didn't blossom into adulthood the first and last time he did that at our house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: so you can come up with intellectual arguments. 4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: 7 hours ago, Perspektiv said: I admit. I am full of shit, and cannot produce a source for my claim. At least you finally admit that you were wrong. Edited 4 hours ago by DUI_Offender Exhibit A? Not sure what is worse. The attempt at humor, or the fact you had to scramble back to it for the spelling errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 12 Author Report Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: You have no idea how to decipher a legitimate news story, from a story that is composed of lies for propaganda purposes. You have the skills and expertise, but only you, right? 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: are sympathetic to Russia More realistic to the fact that when you have an army in your country, a solution will have to include them, especially so, if their army is more powerful than yours. 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: a news item based on facts News have no biases? No political alignment? No means of persuading you to consider alternate realities by using facts, but presenting them in a non objective manner? You're questioning my intellect? Again, pick the argument apart. Easier to make someone look bad by doing so. Just a thought. Try it, sometime. You telling others how you schooled them, is literally that prostitute telling others she only "did it for a short time". You're fooling nobody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: lol....unintentionally hilarous statemnt. The German army was destroying the Soviet army, and advancing at rocket speed through Eastern Europe, until they were literally just over 100km from Moscow. It became so bad that many of Stalin's generals told him to abandon the capital. One thing stopped the Germans in 1941, and again in 1942. Winter. It had nothing to do with numbers. The German army was under the assumption that Russia would surrender by late fall. They never anticipated providing their troops clothing, or any other supplies that would ahve allowed them to continue advancing. Even the tanks were woefully adequate to trek through the harsh Soviet terrain in -30C weather. The Russian climate stopped the German army. It had absolutely nothing to do with Russian "numbers" You should really go back and look at some history, Yes the German army pushed into Russia, they the Russians were unprepared and disorganized and as far as they ever got was Moscow, over all in the big picture barely a 1/3 of all Russia was ever taken....you make it sound like Russia was on the verge of defeat....Germans under estimated Russia in many areas, like troop strength, what and how many armaments' they had, Russian reserve forces strengths....weather did play a role, but there are many different areas of concern that lead to German's defeat in Russia, winter was just a part of it... Quote On December 2, units of the 2nd Panzer Division of the Wehrmacht occupied the village of Krasnaya Polyana, just 30 km from the Kremlin. https://www.rbth.com/history/333084-how-german-blitzkrieg-was-stopped Quote The Red Army’s stubborn resistance and constant counterattacks exhausted and overstrained the German troops. The movement of German armored units was hampered by the heavy mining of all approaches to the city competently carried out by Soviet military engineers. I think Russian numbers and their continuous assaults' had a large part to play as well...well at least according to written history...Moonbox touched on this fact a couple post ago, stating that Russian soldiers had two options attack and win or get shot by their own troops positioned in the back of their own troops to prevent them from retreating...of course they really had no concern for their soldiers welfare...i mean look at penal Bn's in some cases they were corp size.... The same tactic they are using in Ukraine... https://stalingrad.net/russian-hq/the-penal-battalions/ruspenalbat.html Edited July 12 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 12 Report Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: I have schooled you so much in history, that you are lashing out at me in frustration. With your service in the army, maybe go to the VA, and ask them to sponsor you in some history courses, so you can come up with intellectual arguments. Just for the sake of conversation perhaps you can show the readers where you school me...i mean i'm a sucker for punishment and you seem to want to rub my face in the dirt when you can on this topic......here is another chance i think all of us would be interested or at least amused on how you schooled me in history or for that matter anything considering this subject is probable the first disagreement we have had.......please feel free to use any of my posts on this forum.... VA has been very good to me, despite what everyone hears, but history classes, why take a class when most things are available online for free. hence where all those sources i gave you came from, don't get me wrong they have sent me on courses just not history courses... if you spent half the time doing research as you do slamming people around you would be an excellent poster... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: You should really go back and look at some history, Yes the German army pushed into Russia, they the Russians were unprepared and disorganized and as far as they ever got was Moscow, over all in the big picture barely a 1/3 of all Russia was ever taken....you make it sound like Russia was on the verge of defeat.. If you knew how to read a map, you would realize thar most of the Russian population, including Moscow and St.Petersberg are in the far western part of Russia. I suppose they could have positioned all their troops in Siberia, which is equal or larger than European Russia, but the land holds no strategic value. I'm beginning to think my 9 year old child could read a map better than you. Edited July 13 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Russia used these tactics in WWII, and just overwhelmed German forces with numbers...Nobody's accusing Russia of being a military tactical genius although they have had their moments... I really shouldn't have to explain how bad a comparison this is. An existential defensive battle for survival against a genocidal opponent is by its nature very different than a aggressive war of choice for the sake of a crooked leader's vanity. Even so, the Soviet Union's human wave tactics were not war-winning or effective. They were clumsy mistakes in the early stages of the war, committed by bad/inexperienced officers that wasted finite manpower and resources, and accomplished little. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 24 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: If you knew how to read a map, you would realize thar most of the Russian population, including Moscow and St.Petersberg are in the far western part of Russia. I suppose they could have positioned all their troops in Siberia, which is equal or larger than European Russia, but the land holds no strategic value. I'm beginning to think my 9 year old child could read a map better than you. I do know how to read a map, also know how to use goggle...which you should have done before posting. Germany captured less than 1/3 of Russia, everything beyond Moscow never seen a german soldier....that includes the citizens of Moscow. Below is a map that clearly shows Russia population centers...it suggests your wrong about most of russians being under German control.... Yes a good portion of Russia population was under German control at one time...NOT most as you suggest but a good chunk...10 of 16 Russia largest population centers are located well behind Moscow lines on the maps... To say the rest of Russia had no strategic value, is a a falsehood...By the time German had advanced to Moscow...russia have moved most of it's manufacture plants, well to the rear of the country.... along with it's workers...so there was value...just not to you it seems.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 24 minutes ago, Moonbox said: I really shouldn't have to explain how bad a comparison this is. An existential defensive battle for survival against a genocidal opponent is by its nature very different than a aggressive war of choice for the sake of a crooked leader's vanity. Even so, the Soviet Union's human wave tactics were not war-winning or effective. They were clumsy mistakes in the early stages of the war, committed by bad/inexperienced officers that wasted finite manpower and resources, and accomplished little. I think you need to explain because to me it is very clear...They are using the same tactics as they think they are tried and true...regardless if they were used in different contexts.....but for them it is a staple , They were going to use the same tactics during the cold war, just overwhelm NATO with sheer numbers... Russia did make some very clumsy mistakes in the early stages of the war, it allowed Germany to gain ground right up to the outskirts of moscow...but their tactics did not change much in 41 or 42 it was Russia mass attacks and throwing numbers at each battle that weakened and exhausted German troops, just look at stalingrad, other major battles for the cities....German could not keep up with Russia resources of men or equipment, lets not discount Allied support in there as well... it accomplished a lot, pushing germany our of russia and into berlin is a major accomplishment.... Todays Russia is using the same strategy throwing manpower and numbers to accomplish military gains... But the constant in all of this is Russia wasteful use of their manpower... not sure how you can not see the comparison... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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