DUI_Offender Posted June 30 Report Share Posted June 30 On 6/28/2024 at 1:44 PM, Army Guy said: ...These ideas are being pushed by their military chiefs, That Ukraine has shown them that they are not prepared for any defense against any near peer enemy, Russia being one of them...Never underestimate your enemy...one of the key rules to conflict.. If anything, Ukraine has shown us that Russia's military capabilities were greatly overestimated. On 6/28/2024 at 1:44 PM, Army Guy said: I did not say that Russia is stronger than NATO I have stated very clearly that currently Russia and NK are out producing NATO in all war materials, for many different reasons... This is BS... Russia may be out-producing NATO in artillery shells, but the West is far superior in literally everything else. On 6/28/2024 at 1:44 PM, Army Guy said: I have provide clear reliable sources that back those points up..And like you i can't understand why you can't see that. Russia has an entire different way at looking at casualties than western forces do...and so far they don't seem to be at that point where they are concerned or changing tactics to achieve better results...so comparing losses is not a good metric for whos winning or losing, the fact that Russia is still holding or gaining ground is very telling... Russia has gained virtually no land in the past 12 months. On 6/28/2024 at 1:44 PM, Army Guy said: . I'm also stating that NATO is not as strong as you may think it is, NATO is far superior to Russia, and that is all that matters at this point. On 6/28/2024 at 1:44 PM, Army Guy said: NK troops will be a fresh face to the conflict, that being said these are fanatical troops , not your Russian conscripts All the North Korean troops will be dead within a week, if they are deployed to the front-line. That is if they even serve, and do not try to defect to Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 4 hours ago, Moonbox said: No, because 80% of Russia's casualties are caused by Ukrainian artillery, and Ukraine is firing less than 20% the amount of shells, but causing double the casualties. What does that math tell you? I've already brought this up, but you just sort of talk past me and repeat the same points in different ways... Not for the Russians. They lost them in droves last summer as they're apparently easy to locate, they have minimal capability to replace the systems because of sanctions, and they continue to lose them regularly. Not disagreeing, but how do you figure that situation is going to improve? Does arguing unwittingly on Putin's behalf about how hopeless the Ukrainian situation is, despite all evidence to the contrary, somehow help? I really don't get what you're trying to do here, and how you're failing to see that the most important battle for Putin is winning the hearts and minds of people like you by repeating the same points over and over until it's taken for granted. This is all bad logic - all of it. Ukraine is "begging" for equipment because they're not getting what they're asking for, and what they need. They're lack of gains on the ground are matched by Russia's, who despite the overwhelming and hopeless advantage they apparently have, still aren't moving. Not sure what you want to hear, Russia arty is less than 1/4 as effective as Ukraines, which is a moot point consider Ukraine states very clearly that 80 % of its soldiers casualties is from arty fire...it is also responsible from breaking up Ukrainian ground forces and their most of their attacks ... I'm not talking past you i'm telling you what is coming from the Ukrainian front lines, Russia arty fire is killing 80 % of all ukrainians kill in battle...According to any NATO doctrine publication that is very effective fire....now thats ukrainian soldiers speaking to you, and NATO doctrine...not me... I think your misidentify counter bat radar with some of their anti air radars, counter bat radar is pretty common thing on both sides of the battle field... I've explain this a thousands of times, how to improve the situation...Sure i think millions of people around the globe have read my posts and are now changing their minds on how they view the conflict...BTW i'm not cheerleading for putin, i think it is time for Ukraine to see whats on the table...It could be said that guys like you who cheerlead for the continue slaughter of Ukrainian men and women while NATO sits on their ass, and talks the talk, but in no means walks the walk...does that really help? it is obvious we both have very different definitions on what support really means... In no way have i even suggested or talked about Russian talking points, be free to point that our...i have over and over stated very clearly that NATO is not stepping up, in its support which has resulted in Ukraine losing more ground, across most of the battle field, or produced stalemates... Want to talk about bad logic, here is some of it... Quote Ukraine is "begging" for equipment because they're not getting what they're asking for, and what they need. They're lack of gains on the ground are matched by Russia's, who despite the overwhelming and hopeless advantage they apparently have, still aren't moving. Your literally saying the same thing as most of my points have been , lack of NATO support in providing war materials has produced Russian advances, or stalemates...Had NATO stepped up it's support by increasing it Ukraine would be throwing Russia back across the bridge were they came from...Not sure how that is pushing putin narrative...but some how that is my narrative according to you...... when the entire time i have have been slagging NATO for not stepping up with enough support to win this conflict ... Here is what everyone already knows, with out NATO support Ukraine is going to loss this conflict...and if they are not willing to do that on a larger scale , and allow this conflict to drag on serves no one...if your going to support then support it fully, with war materials that are going to make a difference on the battled and reduce Russia into vacating... Or get out and let Ukraine talk to Russia and stop this merry go round... These are not NATO lives being lost they are Ukrainian...lives that are not easy to replace...the longer NATO waits the weaker Ukraine gets..why is that so hard of a concept to grasp...Both of us are on the same page, we both want what is best for ukraine, there is no putin message between the lines... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: If anything, Ukraine has shown us that Russia's military capabilities were greatly overestimated. This is BS... Russia may be out-producing NATO in artillery shells, but the West is far superior in literally everything else. Russia has gained virtually no land in the past 12 months. NATO is far superior to Russia, and that is all that matters at this point. All the North Korean troops will be dead within a week, if they are deployed to the front-line. That is if they even serve, and do not try to defect to Ukraine. If they are a push over, then why is NATO holding back with it's direct involvement or more support...what is holding them back.... If your saying NATO equipment is superior for the most part then i agree with you, can you point to a weapon system or vehicle that NATO is producing faster than Russia and NK is right now... I call bullshit, look at the maps Russians have taken more ground in the last year than Ukraine... Well my dad can beat up your dad...what is the point here...Your first off over estimating the strength of NATO and all its workings...NATO has cashed in some heavy peace bonds, and is a mere shell of itself just 10 years ago...Why is NATO so hot and horny to get Canada up to 2 %, becasue it is a paper military only....and there are other nato countries in the same shape.....for the most part NATO has superior equipment always has...but Russia has numbers way more than NATO has...don't count them out yet...they are still a very dangerous opponent, That's not me saying that, thats is NATO generals... Perhaps they will be all dead in a week NK will send more and more...be less they have to pay them anyways...life does not mean the same to these countries as it does here...The fact remains there was an escalation by Russia, effective or not Russia is stepping up the game...now wait and see what NATO does, there were talks of sending in contractors...IE nato troops without uniforms...and so the game begins... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: t year than Ukraine... Perhaps you do not know how to read maps. In the past 12 months, Russia has conquered virtually no Ukrainian territory. 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Well my dad can beat up your dad...what is the point here...Your first off over estimating the strength of NATO and all its workings...NATO has cashed in some heavy peace bonds, and is a mere shell of itself just 10 years ago...Why is NATO so hot and horny to get Canada up to 2 %, becasue it is a paper military only....and there are other nato countries in the same shape.....for the most part NATO has superior equipment always has...but Russia has numbers way more than NATO has...don't count them out yet...they are still a very dangerous opponent, That's not me saying that, thats is NATO generals... They can't even get their act together to defeat Ukraine, after two years of fighting. Imagine if they had to take on a legitimate power like the US or China. Edited July 1 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 (edited) 13 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Perhaps you do not know how to read maps. In the past 12 months, Russia has conquered virtually no Ukrainian territory. They can't even get their act together to defeat Ukraine, after two years of fighting. Imagine if they had to take on a legitimate power like the US or China. The maps i provided say otherwise...ABC news and plenty of other media outlets would also disagree... Quote Slowly but steadily this summer, Russian troops are forging through Ukraine’s outgunned and undermanned defenses along the front line of the battlefield in a relentless onslaught, prompting the West to push for new weapons and strategies to shore up Kyiv Quote Meanwhile, Russia has made incremental but steady advances in the Donetsk region, including around the strategic hilltop town of Chasiv Yar, a gateway to parts of Donetsk still under Ukrainian control. Analysts say the fall of Chasiv Yar would threaten the key military hubs of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. Quote Putin declared that Moscow wasn’t seeking quick gains and would stick to the current strategy of advancing slowly. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-presses-offensive-ukraine-issues-new-threats-west-111539427 https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-15-24#h_a443dfd8a0673e7f0412b093ba00c066 It would seem the Generals within NATO have a much different outlook, all of them are saying Russia remains a dangerous opponent...maybe your privy to some different information...or your just repeating what most people are saying Puffing up their chests and acting like NATO forces are invincible...But like everyone they have cashed in peace bonds hard, and are shells of their former selves...Even US forces have shrunk in size, and capabilities....Hence why most nato countries are rearming at breakneck speeds but it has cause severe back logs at the manufacturer level... once again showing that NATO manufacturing capability is far from producing it's maximum, that they have gave away all of their old stuff to ukraine...and now the cupboard is bare...that and western equipment is very complex and tech, and requires more time to produce...that simple Russian stuff. Edited July 1 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: The maps i provided say otherwise...ABC news and plenty of other media outlets would also disagree... This chart demonstrates how much of Ukraine each side controls, since the Russian invasion. Notice that the chart looks pretty much identical from 18 months ago? In fact, after some initial Russian conquests in the first two months of the war (Feb/March 2022), Ukraine has actually taken back territory. The theory that Russia is gaining significant ground on Ukraine is false, and another lie you hope to spread to others. Russia controls approx. 17.57% of Ukraine land. That has deviated less than 1% since 2022. 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: ...But like everyone they have cashed in peace bonds hard, and are shells of their former selves...Even US forces have shrunk in size, and capabilities....Hence why most nato countries are rearming at breakneck speeds but it has cause severe back logs at the manufacturer level... It's amazing you actually believe this. It is almost like you think NATO is fighting Russia, and the Russians are destroying NATO's military capabilities. Edited July 1 by DUI_Offender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 On 7/1/2024 at 1:39 AM, DUI_Offender said: Imagine if they had to take on a legitimate power like the US or China. You honestly think Ukraine is fighting with their weapons? They would have been fully conquered if this was the case. Based on the US and European weapons they are fighting with, Russia is good with simply holding the land that they have acquired. I don't understand how this is a loss, considering they are still holding virtually all of the land that they have taken upon their initial invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: You honestly think Ukraine is fighting with their weapons? They would have been fully conquered if this was the case. I think its obvious to anyone with an iota of common sense that NATO countries, especially USA and the UK are not sending anything remotely close to their best weapons to Ukraine. If anything, it's mainly excess stock. Then again, I'm debating with people who seem to think Russia could easily win a war with NATO, so what do I expect? 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: I don't understand how this is a loss, considering they are still holding virtually all of the land that they have taken upon their initial invasion. 520,000+ casualties, depletion of half of their Naval fleet and munitions factories, in a war that was supposed to be completed in less than 72 hours, with Russian victory, is not a 'loss?" I know you and your two cohorts are just about the biggest Russian tankies I've come across, but at least keep it real. 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: I don't understand how this is a loss, considering they are still holding virtually all of the land that they have taken upon their initial invasion. If you are referring to the 2022 invasion, Russia has lost most of the land they initially gained in the first two months of fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 55 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: are not sending anything remotely close to their best weapons to Ukraine. It would be in their worst interest to do so, if wishing to be defensive vs spark a greater conflict, and risk seeing their best tools potentially fall to the hands of Russia. 56 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: If anything, it's mainly excess stock. They are still heavily needed by Ukraine for survival. It doesn't matter if these were decommissioned tanks that were about to go to the scap yard. The point is Ukraine needs its allies for survival. This isn't a bad thing, until it is. IE far right parties taking over, often pushing an "our country first" vision. 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: who seem to think Russia could easily win a war with NATO Not sure why one would think this, considering Putin himself has scoffed at the idea, calling it lunacy. He is well aware, at how outmatched his military is (points it out rather bluntly), and is also aware that fear mongering about his invasion would be meaning him pushing into other NATO countries, helps with securing more funding. 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: is not a 'loss? Its sheer incompetence on the battle field. Russia has shown plenty of it. Paid dearly for it. It also ignores the losses on Ukraines side, on civilian, military deaths along with staggering infrastructure loss. Not sure how this is ridicule worthy for either party unless you're propping propaganda and pointing to the losses on one side only, in an attempt to try to prove a point, missing half its story. A moral win, at best could be argued, but I don't recall anyone that isn't Putin trying to will their population into believing they were winning. There is no winning a war like this, only ending it. 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: Russia Still holds a significant portion of land. You can do all the gymnastics you wish linguistically. This remains a fact. There is only one logical way out of this. Of course there are passive aggressive and petty ways, and vengeful and prideful ways out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 14 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: It would be in their worst interest to do so, if wishing to be defensive vs spark a greater conflict, and risk seeing their best tools potentially fall to the hands of Russia. They are still heavily needed by Ukraine for survival. It doesn't matter if these were decommissioned tanks that were about to go to the scap yard. The point is Ukraine needs its allies for survival. This isn't a bad thing, until it is. IE far right parties taking over, often pushing an "our country first" vision. Not sure why one would think this, considering Putin himself has scoffed at the idea, calling it lunacy. He is well aware, at how outmatched his military is (points it out rather bluntly), and is also aware that fear mongering about his invasion would be meaning him pushing into other NATO countries, helps with securing more funding. Its sheer incompetence on the battle field. Russia has shown plenty of it. Paid dearly for it. It also ignores the losses on Ukraines side, on civilian, military deaths along with staggering infrastructure loss. Not sure how this is ridicule worthy for either party unless you're propping propaganda and pointing to the losses on one side only, in an attempt to try to prove a point, missing half its story. A moral win, at best could be argued, but I don't recall anyone that isn't Putin trying to will their population into believing they were winning. There is no winning a war like this, only ending it. Still holds a significant portion of land. You can do all the gymnastics you wish linguistically. This remains a fact. There is only one logical way out of this. Of course there are passive aggressive and petty ways, and vengeful and prideful ways out of this. Is it too much to ask to quote me properly when making a rebuttal to my post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 (edited) On 6/30/2024 at 10:51 PM, Army Guy said: Not sure what you want to hear, Russia arty is less than 1/4 as effective as Ukraines, which is a moot point consider Ukraine states very clearly that 80 % of its soldiers casualties is from arty fire...it is also responsible from breaking up Ukrainian ground forces and their most of their attacks ... The math shows it's 10th as effective. Reconsider what you're trying to say here: Russia is firing 5x as many artillery shells as Ukraine, but the fact that it's 1/10th as effective is somehow a moot point? Wtf...? That's utter nonsense, and there's no point in responding to the rest of your post, or even continuing the debate if this is the logic you're running with. Edited July 2 by Moonbox 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 (edited) N/M Edited July 2 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: I don't care for discussing personal matters, but I'm becoming skeptical that army guy ever serviced in the armed forces. Don't be. He's been on this forum for something like 20 years and I have zero doubt he was in the army. We talked about Afghanistan back in Harper's day. He's really not one of the bad ones here, even if I think his biases blind him. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 42 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Don't be. He's been on this forum for something like 20 years and I have zero doubt he was in the army. We talked about Afghanistan back in Harper's day. He's really not one of the bad ones here, even if I think his biases blind him. Fair enough. I just don't get how some are cheerleading for appeasement towards Russia, when it's such a historically bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 5 hours ago, Moonbox said: The math shows it's 10th as effective. Reconsider what you're trying to say here: Russia is firing 5x as many artillery shells as Ukraine, but the fact that it's 1/10th as effective is somehow a moot point? Wtf...? That's utter nonsense, and there's no point in responding to the rest of your post, or even continuing the debate if this is the logic you're running with. For the record ,I already have stated that US made arty is much more accurate than Russia stuff...according to you say it's 1/10 as accurate, not sure where you grabbed that figure but you go with it...Russia compensates for lack of accuracy with volume of fire...which seems to be working for them as Ukraine military sources report that 80 % of all their wounded and killed are due to RUSSIA ARTY fire...that in any military manual is effective fire...Not sure how else to explain it...if it is not effective how do you explain the fact that 80% of ukraines casualties' are from arty fire...what is effective arty fire in your mind... NO where did i say russia arty was better, or more accurate than Ukraines US made systems...I'm not even sure what your point is now... Your free to do what ever it is you like... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 (edited) On 7/1/2024 at 6:38 PM, DUI_Offender said: This chart demonstrates how much of Ukraine each side controls, since the Russian invasion. Notice that the chart looks pretty much identical from 18 months ago? In fact, after some initial Russian conquests in the first two months of the war (Feb/March 2022), Ukraine has actually taken back territory. The theory that Russia is gaining significant ground on Ukraine is false, and another lie you hope to spread to others. Russia controls approx. 17.57% of Ukraine land. That has deviated less than 1% since 2022. It's amazing you actually believe this. It is almost like you think NATO is fighting Russia, and the Russians are destroying NATO's military capabilities. I just gave you several news media reports that clearly describe Russia advances, in the last year...in fact most of them are very very recently....not sure what else to tell you, perhaps your not following this conflict very closely, or your sources are not update...I tried to use a wide variety of sources such as CNN, or BBC are they not reliable ? I could give you dozens of sources that back up my statement, that in the last 20 years NATO force sizes have shrunk, and have only now been serious being look at with serious funding attached to those commitment... Just look at British tank fleet sizes in the 90's and 2000, and compare them today..the fact you could do that with any major army capability speaks volumes for cashing in peace bonds, or cuts to their military size and capabilities....I use Britian here as an example becasue i thought it was your birth nation...I eman Britain has had a huge struggle in maintaining it's capabilities in their navy and airforce and army...And with Britian being one of the main Characters in NATO you don't think the smaller nations have not taken this example and run with it...look at Germany once had 2500 Leopard tanks, and is now down to just 300 plus, how is that not been a decrease in capabilities.. Not only i'm i saying it, but i have lived through it Canada one of NATO largest lagarts has set the example for everyone to see clearly that not many Countries took there membership in NATO seriously....i mean just look at the SIGNed agreement for all nations to meet 2 %...which was already on of the NATO policies, but it took another signed agreement to get other nations moving becasue leadership in NATO was very concerned...not sure how you missed that fact... Next NATO has taken on the role to supply Ukraine in this struggle...like it or not in is indirectly involved...it has upset Russia to no end, hence all the Russian threats of nuclear war...And in this supporting Ukraine it has drained off most of NATOS surplus stock piles, which has brought to light manufacture shortfalls when trying to refill these stocks, and add to all of that most nations are or have seen the light and the need for additional stocks putting more pressure on manufactures...same could be said with most war materials...German tank orders are now into 2029 before new tanks can be built...there are thousands of examples that confirm that our own manufacture plants are at or below peacetime levels... Not sure how you missed that fact either... Edited July 3 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: Don't be. He's been on this forum for something like 20 years and I have zero doubt he was in the army. We talked about Afghanistan back in Harper's day. He's really not one of the bad ones here, even if I think his biases blind him. Thanks moonbox for the character reference...And yes sometimes i do get blinded by some topics....as i assume most people do...last time i checked i do not have holes in my hands or feet so i'm not perfect. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I just gave you several news media reports that clearly describe Russia advances, in the last year...in fact most of them are very very recently....not sure what else to tell you, perhaps your not following this conflict very closely, or your sources are not update...I tried to use a wide variety of sources such as CNN, or BBC are they not reliable ? Some "advance" lol. As of a few days ago, the Russians advanced 200 square km in the past year...or the equivalent of less than 1% of the total size of the small state of New Jersey...😅 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Next NATO has taken on the role to supply Ukraine in this struggle...like it or not in is indirectly involved...it has upset Russia to no end, hence all the Russian threats of nuclear war. Russia has been threatening escalation every time the US gives new increments of funding, training, or weapons to Ukraine. It's almost comical how many times NATO and the United States have called Putin's bluff. The US Government knows full well that Russia would never resort to nuclear war, since Russia would be wiped off the face of the earth within days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: Fair enough. I just don't get how some are cheerleading for appeasement towards Russia, when it's such a historically bad idea. The last thing i'm trying to accomplish here is cheerlead for mother Russia when i spent a good portion of my career training to fight the Warsaw pact...so i have no love for them or those other dictators. That being said what i have continued to say is never underestimate Russia, and never overestimate NATO it is not as strong as it once was, and is just over the last 5 or 6 years started a slow burn to build up it's forces...Russia on the other hand has spent those years at war with most of it's internal workings...and although Ukraine is handing them their asses, Russia does not judge success or losses by casuality reports, or equipment losses by territory gains...which it has been doing in the last 8 months to a year... Not sure how a few facts can be cheerleading for russia...perhaps you can give me some examples and i can perhaps explain where my thought process was at the time. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: The last thing i'm trying to accomplish here is cheerlead for mother Russia when i spent a good portion of my career training to fight the Warsaw pact...so i have no love for them or those other dictators. That being said what i have continued to say is never underestimate Russia, and never overestimate NATO it is not as strong as it once was, and is just over the last 5 or 6 years started a slow burn to build up it's forces...Russia on the other hand has spent those years at war with most of it's internal workings Talk is cheap. In actual combat, Russia is in the fight of it's life with a nation that is much weaker than them on paper for the last 29 months. Russia barely managed to defeat Chechnya 20 years ago, and has had their ass handed to them when engaging with US forces in Syria just a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 (edited) 26 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Some "advance" lol. As of a few days ago, the Russians advanced 200 square km in the past year...or the equivalent of less than 1% of the total size of the small state of New Jersey...😅 Russia has been threatening escalation every time the US gives new increments of funding, training, or weapons to Ukraine. It's almost comical how many times NATO and the United States have called Putin's bluff. The US Government knows full well that Russia would never resort to nuclear war, since Russia would be wiped off the face of the earth within days. The fact remains they are advancing right...the next question you need to ask is why? it is simple Ukraine has said it is the lack of timely support from NATO...I mean lets be honest without NATO support Ukraine would most likely be speaking Russian...Currently NATO support is JUST keeping Ukraines head above water.... One of my talking points is NATO should be providing more support to Ukraine, not just to keep this war in basically a stalemate, but rather to push Russia out of Ukraine....Instead NATO dithers in talking about support, allowing Russia to make small gains...and costing Ukraine it's youth... NATO takes every threat seriously...as it is not just Russia that gets wiped off the face of the earth it is the entire human race....and yet Russia still thinks it could win a nuclear exchange..It is Russia nuclear arm that makes NATO nervous...It's conventional forces are not to be overlooked as well....and while NATO has a huge advantage, many of our young generation will pay for that confrontation with their life's...And judging how we treated our last vets, Thats not something to look forward to... Edited July 3 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 4 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Talk is cheap. In actual combat, Russia is in the fight of it's life with a nation that is much weaker than them on paper for the last 29 months. Russia barely managed to defeat Chechnya 20 years ago, and has had their ass handed to them when engaging with US forces in Syria just a few years ago. I'm sure Russia was not taken into account NATO reaction, and it's support with new NATO standard weapons... The US onslaught of wagner troops in Syria, was just the US making a point... there was no NATO , no anyone, Just the US flexing its military might and they went out of their way to flex...and Wagner paid the price...that was not an example of near peer conflict...who did not have access to real air defense, fast air, helo support in any great qty...it was a slaughter, to send a point to russia... Everyone still forgets Russia is still has the largest nuclear arm in the game, along with enough chemicals to bath the entire earths population, not to mention bio weapons' along with a huge conventional army...lets not forget the mad men that would have no issue of using it if pushed...NATO commanders have stated this over and over ...Not one of them think Russia is a push over...not sure where you would get that idea from. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Everyone still forgets Russia is still has the largest nuclear arm in the game, along with enough chemicals to bath the entire earths population, not to mention bio weapons' along with a huge conventional army...lets not forget the mad men that would have no issue of using it if pushed... Name one. Edited July 3 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Name one. You think Putin, is of sound mind...or any of his minions, have you watched any Russian TV and seen what they are calling for putin to do...you should check it out, their responses are all over the internet...Putin would push the button if cornered.... You think sleep joe should have the access to the nuclear trigger ? How about the Iranian leadership think they would not send Israel a nuke if they get one.... NK think that crazy MF'er would not send a rocket to anyone if pushed... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, Army Guy said: For the record ,I already have stated that US made arty is much more accurate than Russia stuff...according to you say it's 1/10 as accurate, not sure where you grabbed that figure but you go with it It's math. If they're firing 1/5th or fewer rounds (as your numbers would suggest) and if Russians are suffering 2:1 casualties (as most sources report) then that's 1/10th as effective. 11 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Ukraine military sources report that 80 % of all their wounded and killed are due to RUSSIA ARTY fire... SO WHAT? This has nothing to do with the question we're debating, and it's the same on both sides. All it tells us is that the Russian airforce, navy and infantry are even shittier than their artillery. If it takes 10 Russian shells to match the effectiveness of a single Ukrainian one, the numerical advantage you keep talking about is what's actually moot. 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: The fact remains they are advancing right Irrelevant fact. If their "advancing" amounts to pushing from one blade of grass to the next, at massive cost in human life and materials, what does that count for? Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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