Moonbox Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 (edited) 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: I think you need to explain because to me it is very clear...They are using the same tactics as they think they are tried and true...regardless if they were used in different contexts.....but for them it is a staple , “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. “ – Mark Twain What's very clear to you is very "not real". The Red Army's use of human waves were disastrous mistakes, that did not yield results. Their worst recorded use was against the Finns in 1939-1940, culminating in miserable failure in Karelia. They happened here and there against the Germans as well, mostly in the early, desperate stages of Barbarossa, but achieved nothing. As for what needs to be explained to you, are you really going to play that dumb? You've already talked about how more dangerous offensive war is than defense, so perhaps you can connect the dots...perhaps the Soviets had more motivation to fight protecting their homes and families from extermination, and perhaps their generals employed defense-in-depth and ceded territory in the face of German advances, stretching their supply lines 1500+ kilometers to breaking...before counterattacking at places like Moscow, Stalingrad etc in the Winter. Ever heard of General Winter? Hello? Edited July 13 by Moonbox 1 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 (edited) 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: I do know how to read a map, also know how to use goggle... First off, you spelled "Google" wrong. Second, here is an actual map of the population density of Russia. Notice how the most densely populated areas, were occupied by the Germans for a significant amount of time in World War 2.This is a political forum, and any talk of European history, especially World War 2, I would humiliate you. You should quit before you make a fool of yourself. Edited July 13 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 (edited) 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: Below is a map that clearly shows Russia population centers...it suggests your wrong about most of russians being under German control.... Yes a good portion of Russia population was under German control at one time...NOT most as you suggest but a good chunk.. I never said anything about "most of Russia" being under German control. Stop lying. 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: To say the rest of Russia had no strategic value, is a a falsehood... Siberia has virtually no strategic value to Germany. For some reason, you changed "Siberia" to "the rest of Russia." You are again lying, or at the very least, being intellectually dishonest. Edited July 13 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 13 Author Report Share Posted July 13 6 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Well of you consider InfoWARS I never said any of the listed sources you use, are anything like sources like Time Magazine or the New York Times, to name a couple. What I said, is I will judge the quality of the information, regardless of the source. So obviously, if a source has garbage information, I won't use them. Your reputation is the cornerstone of your success for a reason. I will be likelier to double check what it is they are talking about, if they post something that seems credible. If they have a reputation for it, I use CNN and Fox which still use facts, but are insanely biased with how they present them, I will check for objective news to get a clearer picture. Getting one side of a story, has me just as well to read the editorial section and take it as gospel. I don't trust any source trying to tell me how to think, which is how many news come across nowadays. You telling me you are more informed because you watch news, comes across as a morbidly obese person telling me they are healthy because their hamburgers use kale, and not lettuce. 6 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: If you knew how to read a map When you get that personal, without providing a better argument, it's your classic means of distraction because you have nothing to bring to the table. 6 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: With posts like these, I would love to see if a psychiatric assessment was ever conducted on you I am probably certified crazy. If insanity was a course, I am probably an honor roll student. I have trophies. Yet am capable of debate without resorting to initiating personally insulting others. I am also capable to conduct business and do very well, because I can adapt to whoever I am selling to. I am also incredibly self-aware, a skill you clearly lack, in how I constantly strive to do better and always ask myself if I could have done more. You borrow me your car, I would return it to you fully fueled and detailed inside and out. That's a metaphor for being grateful and humble. Maybe you should try it. Whats your point, by the way? Or you don't have one, and are using your patent pending filler debate tactics, again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 13 Author Report Share Posted July 13 10 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: On a side note, I checked your military service I never understood this angle. Mocking someone who served, based on them not holding a position you view as valid. Like my cleaning crew isn't as valuable as my accounting crew. If you honestly hire useless people as a business, this isn't your employees issue. Its a you issue. Remember, humility. Thank him for his service, and move on with your life. To say anyone posting logically, is pro Russia, when some Russian officials were seen even mocking some of their deceased soldiers, is laughable at best. Just because someone is evil, and slithery, doesn't mean you can't have diplomatic relations and set the conditions for those to continue that respect either party's interests. I do business with people who I despise. At the end of the day, this current narrative that for me to do business with you, we must align politically and morally, is about as pompous as one could get. Diplomacy is trying to get along, in spite of differences. Not virtue signaling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 On 7/13/2024 at 2:26 AM, DUI_Offender said: First off, you spelled "Google" wrong. Second, here is an actual map of the population density of Russia. Notice how the most densely populated areas, were occupied by the Germans for a significant amount of time in World War 2.This is a political forum, and any talk of European history, especially World War 2, I would humiliate you. You should quit before you make a fool of yourself. Your map shows the same information as mine does. Quote If you knew how to read a map, you would realize thar most of the Russian population, including Moscow and St.Petersberg are in the far western part of Russia. I suppose they could have positioned all their troops in Siberia, which is equal or larger than European Russia, but the land holds no strategic value. And yet most of the population as you say was NOT under german control or occupied...Germans Never entered Moscow, Anything east of moscow never even seen a german soldier....the closet they got to moscow was 30 KM....So when you add up all the cities or areas with major population centers NOT under german control you'll find that not even a 1/3 of Russia total population was under German control... Going back through all my posts with you, you have not got one fact right yet....It's not me that is being humiliated or being made a fool of....I'ver back up most of my statements with sources...where you've backed up yours with none or barely none. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 On 7/13/2024 at 1:09 AM, Moonbox said: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. “ – Mark Twain What's very clear to you is very "not real". The Red Army's use of human waves were disastrous mistakes, that did not yield results. Their worst recorded use was against the Finns in 1939-1940, culminating in miserable failure in Karelia. They happened here and there against the Germans as well, mostly in the early, desperate stages of Barbarossa, but achieved nothing. As for what needs to be explained to you, are you really going to play that dumb? You've already talked about how more dangerous offensive war is than defense, so perhaps you can connect the dots...perhaps the Soviets had more motivation to fight protecting their homes and families from extermination, and perhaps their generals employed defense-in-depth and ceded territory in the face of German advances, stretching their supply lines 1500+ kilometers to breaking...before counterattacking at places like Moscow, Stalingrad etc in the Winter. Ever heard of General Winter? Hello? My entire point here as always been Russian army has always relied on superior numbers, and continuous attacks that exhaust their enemies...as stated in the source i already provided you, I also provided a source on penal Bns which were prisons that were used in extreme ways including human wave attacks...if you want to dispute that fine prove a source that tells everyone different... I'm not playing dumb, just want to find out where the disconnect is, if that is to much for you then fine....Not sure where you going with the offensive/ defensive thing so i can not connect the dots...There are a million reasons why the Russias decided that moscow was going to be their start of their offensive...as i already explained WINTER was a factor BUT not the only factor that German lines broke. To exclude Russian tactics and their relentless attacks and throwing wave after wave of soldiers at the issue( a russian staple) ...is dishonest at best, but feel free to follow DUI down the rabbit hole...because of his stellar record to date in this post... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your map shows the same information as mine does. It definitely does not. Your map shows a bunch of dots, where Russian cities are located. My map shows the population density of Russia, and what regions are the most densely populated. 48 minutes ago, Army Guy said: And yet most of the population as you say was NOT under german control or occupied...Germans Never entered Moscow, Anything east of moscow never even seen a german soldier....the closet they got to moscow was 30 KM....So when you add up all the cities or areas with major population centers NOT under german control you'll find that not even a 1/3 of Russia total population was under German control... Once again, you are arguing to the ether. Nobody said Germany occupied "most of Russia" or most of the Russian people" at any time. So why even bother arguing a point that nobody countered? 48 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Going back through all my posts with you, I have not got one fact right yet.... For once, I agree with you. 48 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I'ver back up most of my statements with sources... Actually, you rarely ever back any of your claims with sources. Even Moonbox called you out on this a few days ago. Edited July 14 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 16 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: It definitely does not. Your map shows a bunch of dots, where Russian cities are located. My map shows the population density of Russia, and what regions are the most densely populated. Once again, you are arguing to the ether. Nobody said Germany occupied "most of Russia" or most of the Russian people" at any time. So why even bother arguing a point that nobody countered? For once, I agree with you. Actually, you rarely ever back any of your claims with sources. Even Moonbox called you out on this a few days ago. If you look at the maps legend it tells you what each dot means in regards to population density....It gives you the same information....in a different format. Below is your quote is it not...i even provided the quote up above with your map....have you forgotten what you posted...no wonder this topic is a bit nightmarish...To which i pointed out with a source that your claim was false...most of the populated areas were not occupied by Germany....not sure how this is so confusing.... Quote Second, here is an actual map of the population density of Russia. Notice how the most densely populated areas, were occupied by the Germans for a significant amount of time in World War 2. I was being sarcastic...listen i don't want to be that guy but you have not been right any any talking points we have discussed...That's not a good record....and then the " I'm a god at WWII history and will make a fool out of you "not even sure what to make of that one...but i would be happy to discuss WWII with you in another thread, I'm not looking for a bar fight, but a discussion. Right now i would like to get back on topic...Ukraine... I think your confusing me with someone else, most of my posts have sources attached...unlike yours. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Below is your quote is it not...i even provided the quote up above with your map....have you forgotten what you posted...no wonder this topic is a bit nightmarish...To which i pointed out with a source that your claim was false...most of the populated areas were not occupied by Germany....not sure how this is so confusing.... You are STILL going on about something I never said. Your claim: "you said that I claimed that "Most of Russia, as well as most of the Russian people were under German control. My response: "I never said that. Quit lying." Now, you are back again going on about something I never said. So prove it. Show the whole forum where I said Germany occupied most of Russia and the Russian people. You are using a technique Joseph Goebbels (propaganda Minister for Nazi Germany) made famous- repeat a lie enough time, and people will eventually accept it as the truth. --- At any rate, what I did say, was that Germany occupied the majority of the most densely populated area of Russia. If you look at my map, that would be the red area near Moscow and the vicinity. Since you have reading comprehension issues, I will use Canada as an example. If the United States went to war with us, like they did in 1812, and occupied most of southern Ontario, right up to Oshawa, that would mean that the USA has occupied the most densely populated area of Canada. However, my guess is only 13-14 million Canadians live in that region (Ontario that is south of Oshawa). The population of Canada is currently over 41 million people. Which would mean the United States would occupy land in which 1/3 of all Canadian reside in. I have no idea why you are having such a hard time with a rather simplistic statement. Edited July 15 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 On 7/13/2024 at 2:26 AM, DUI_Offender said: First off, you spelled "Google" wrong. Second, here is an actual map of the population density of Russia. Notice how the most densely populated areas, were occupied by the Germans for a significant amount of time in World War 2.This is a political forum, and any talk of European history, especially World War 2, I would humiliate you. You should quit before you make a fool of yourself. Is this your quote ar another DUI posters...i have underlined and placed in bold what the DUI poster commented on....How is this so difficult for you....I'm sorry i'm going to have to take some time off from posting to you, this is getting to crazy, your either retarded, or deliberately screwing with me... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Is this your quote ar another DUI posters...i have underlined and placed in bold what the DUI poster commented on....How is this so difficult for you....I'm sorry i'm going to have to take some time off from posting to you, this is getting to crazy, your either retarded, or deliberately screwing with me... Now you are just proving me right. Your claim: "You said Germany occupied MOST OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE!" My response: " I said Germany controlled the majority of THE MOST DENSELY POPULATED REGION IN RUSSIA." I actually cannot believe you are still going on about this. Hopefully my map of Canada, and the hypothetical example will help you interpret what I actually said. Edited July 15 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Now you are just proving me right. Your claim: "You said Germany occupied MOST OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE!" My response: " I said Germany controlled the majority of THE MOST DENSELY POPULATED REGION IN RUSSIA." I actually cannot believe you are still going on about this. Hopefully my map of Canada, and the hypothetical example will help you interpret what I actually said. that what your retarded of fuc*ing with me... Listen like i said now your making shit up again....I have not said germany occupied most of the russian people .. and Germany did not control most of the densely populated regions...your indicating one point on the map , the majority of Russian population is spread out over 16 cities most of them never seen a german soldier........according to your map and mine.... Edited July 15 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Listen like i said now your making shit up again....I have not said germany occupied most of the russian people .. I never said you did. For two days, you were accusing me of stating this (since Friday at 851 PM). Now you are going out of your way to confuse people. Edited July 15 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 21 hours ago, Army Guy said: My entire point here as always been Russian army has always relied on superior numbers, and continuous attacks that exhaust their enemies...as stated in the source i already provided you, Your point is all over the place, and it doesn't seem like you're really sure what you're trying to say. Your source was a summary of the Battle of Moscow. There were quite a few factors involved in the Soviet victory there, only one of which was "continuous counterattacks". Somehow, in your mind, that supports the effectiveness of attritional human wave assaults, despite never mentioning anything of the sort. 🤔 21 hours ago, Army Guy said: I also provided a source on penal Bns which were prisons that were used in extreme ways including human wave attacks...if you want to dispute that fine prove a source that tells everyone different... The penal battalions were a propaganda tool and a way to deliver death sentences and enforce discipline. If you want to argue that sending political prisoners and deserters to trample minefields was an effective war tactic, I'd love to hear you try. 21 hours ago, Army Guy said: I'm not playing dumb, just want to find out where the disconnect is, if that is to much for you then fine....Not sure where you going with the offensive/ defensive thing so i can not connect the dots... Think apples and oranges. The way the Soviets fought back the Germans is literally the exact opposite of what they're trying to do against the Ukrainians. In the WW2, they executed a defense-in-depth by ceding territory (+1000km deep, across a 3000km front) and then struck back against an over-extended and exhausted opponent. In Ukraine, they're smashing their faces into fortified positions and losing ~30000/month to achieve marginal advances that we have trouble seeing on a map. They are nothing alike. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 (edited) https://x.com/War_Mapper/status/1812230558497337573/photo/1 Ukraine map updates: forces have reclaimed territory north of Kharkiv, securing most of Hlyboke along with its northern fortifications. Note: advances marked here are confirmations of earlier control and not new advances. Edited July 16 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 (edited) North Korean "helping" Russia lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8wOwH43b5A&ab_channel=TheInfographicsShow Edited July 16 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 On 7/15/2024 at 1:04 AM, DUI_Offender said: I never said you did. You literally did: On 7/14/2024 at 8:11 PM, DUI_Offender said: Your claim: "You said Germany occupied MOST OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE!" I have seen some posters here that are somewhat good at gaslighting, but you truly suck at it. 14 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: North Korean "helping" Russia lol You might find it funny, but the west is taking the threat seriously. Quite confident the thousands of Ukrainian people who were maimed or killed by this "help" find it funny, too. Just because it's more quaint for you to dismiss reality, doesn't mean others need to do so as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Even though i cannot point to Ukraine on a map if my life depended on it, I am back to spread lies, and troll you. Go away. Edited July 17 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: 4 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Even though i cannot point to Ukraine on a map if my life depended on it, I am back to spread lies, and troll you. Go away. Edited 1 hour ago by DUI_Offender You can't even spell the words you try to put in my mouth. There's an ignore feature. Use it. Am going nowhere 😍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: You can't even spell the words you try to put in my mouth. There's an ignore feature. Use it. Am going nowhere 😍 lol..which word in my quoted text was spelled incorrectly. I'm on lunch break at work. I will figure it out when I arrive home. Edited July 17 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: I will figure it out when I arrive home. Please, and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Please, and thank you. You are very welcome, my friend. Edited July 17 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: You are very welcome, my friend. We finally agree on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted July 23 Author Report Share Posted July 23 On 7/14/2024 at 8:03 PM, Army Guy said: either retarded, or deliberately screwing with me... I think that this poster is sadly a little bit of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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