Army Guy Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 13 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Let's be frank. If Russia gained 10 metres in a month, in battles with Ukraine, the Putin apologists would be holding it up as a "major offensive" into Ukrainian territory. I can see him doing it, if Russia gained 20 cm in a month. No, let me be frank, had you or others looked at that map, i provided put out by Ukrainian sources, you'd see marked in Yellow the gains from a couple of days ago....those gains IN A FEW DAYS were measured in KM's not meters... the Map runs counter to your statements that there has been NO gains since the start of the war...when that is just a lie...gains are being made, and they are in the KMs not meters....Ukrainian forces are being pushed back along large swaths of the entire front...Ukrainian forces have made some counter attacks and stalled russian forces in some sectors...but on a whole russian is making gains... I mean every media source on the planet is basically saying the same thing, not sure why you have a hard time excepting what they print as truth, i have given you sourses from both the right and the left, and you've dismissed them, i gave you mapos made by Ukraine that clearly show Russian daily advances and you dismiss them...not sure where to go on this. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: You refuse to believe that Russian arty are having an large impact on the battlefield...in fact the largest impact for russian forces... FFS, man. I've responded to this (lousy) point at least a half dozen times, and just you plough past and ignore that on your way to saying it again. Do you figure you're just going to bludgeon us into submission via repetition? If you're not going to do me the courtesy of responding to what I write, there's no reason to read the rest of your post. Edited July 4 by Moonbox 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 Putin stating that he supports Trump's plan to end the war, all but vindicates the people who warned Trump would sellout Ukraine, and give Russia everything that it desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 4 hours ago, Moonbox said: FFS, man. I've responded to this (lousy) point at least a half dozen times, and just you plough past and ignore that on your way to saying it again. Do you figure you're just going to bludgeon us into submission via repetition? If you're not going to do me the courtesy of responding to what I write, there's no reason to read the rest of your post. I've made a point to respond to all your posts, all your responses, points, remarks...out of respect to you.... you don't have to like my answers, but i think i've proven most of my points with valid sources, again you don't have to like them, but those are my answers in what i believe to be true or factual.. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Putin stating that he supports Trump's plan to end the war, all but vindicates the people who warned Trump would sellout Ukraine, and give Russia everything that it desires. Do you honestly think that NATO is supporting Ukraine to the best of it's ability...or just maintaining status quo....do you think Ukraine is going to get a better deal with Biden in charge ?.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Do you honestly think that NATO is supporting Ukraine to the best of it's ability...or just maintaining status quo....do you think Ukraine is going to get a better deal with Biden in charge ?.... Absolutely. Only a fool would think Trump is not going to completely screw over Ukraine. On a related note, a leader of a powerful nation, who is not in Putin's back pocket, offered help in resolving the conflict. However, Erdogan of Turkey was shot down by the Kremlin, since unlike Trump, Erdogan would be far more impartial to both sides: https://www.reuters.com/world/turkeys-erdogan-offers-help-end-russia-ukraine-war-kremlin-rules-him-out-2024-07-03/ Edited July 5 by DUI_Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 12 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Absolutely. Only a fool would think Trump is not going to completely screw over Ukraine. In what way do you think Trump is going to screw over Ukraine ? Just how important is Ukraine to Biden/ NATO right now, does it rank in the top ten...where exactly... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 10 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Only a fool would think Trump is not going to completely screw over Ukraine. They are already screwed over. They have an enemy army occupying and controlling significant portions of their land. Trump pressuring Ukraine to give away some of the seized land and officially recognizing Crimea as Russian land is just making it a formality. War is chess, not checkers. He would be the better person to demand far more concessions from Russia, including allowing Ukraine to join NATO, bringing the country under full US protection. Biden would get shot down, as Russia would know they would get nothing in return. History shows that not opening a serious dialogue with a hostage taker typically end up in a bloody mess. It would be a good look for either party, and Trump is all about making himself look good. Russia knows it would be their only choice to bring this humiliating conflict to an end, without having to fully lose face. Trump and Putin are crooks, you're going to get the best deal when you put two of the same kind, together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: Trump and Putin are crooks, you're going to get the best deal when you put two of the same kind, together. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 9 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: LOL Laughter doesn't make it any less true. Seems that other politicians have been taken advantage of by such leaders. North Korea would engage in fear mongering campaigns to get US campaigns. Trump boldly called them out, ridiculing their leader even, and gave way to some of the most peaceful times the Korean peninsula has had in a while. Oh, and even Zelensky understands the reality that you reject, seeing about 58% of his population ruling out compromise with Russia, down from 80%, when initially polled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 21 hours ago, Army Guy said: In what way do you think Trump is going to screw over Ukraine ? Anyone seeking compromise, is *clearly* pro Putin and a Russia sympathizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: I've made a point to respond to all your posts, all your responses, points, remarks...out of respect to you.... You responded to my posts, not my points. Responding to my points requires you to actually acknowledge and address the specific things I'm saying, rather than full-quoting me and just repeating what you've already said. 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: you don't have to like my answers, but i think i've proven most of my points with valid sources, again you don't have to like them, but those are my answers in what i believe to be true or factual.. Your beliefs have no bearing on the debate, but do seem to taint your reasoning. The sources you've provided aren't necessarily false. It's the conclusions that you draw from them that's the problem. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Laughter doesn't make it any less true. Yes, we all know that two crooks have the best interest in society. 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: North Korea would engage in fear mongering campaigns to get US campaigns North Korea has never been made a significant election issue. 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: . Trump boldly called them out, ridiculing their leader even, and gave way to some of the most peaceful times the Korean peninsula has had in a while. Trump did absolutely nothing the NK leader, like Putin, sensed Trump was a weak leader, easy to exploit. As soon as Trump left, it was business as usual. Trump had absolutely no effect on NK foreign policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: You responded to my posts, not my points. Responding to my points requires you to actually acknowledge and address the specific things I'm saying, rather than full-quoting me and just repeating what you've already said. Your beliefs have no bearing on the debate, but do seem to taint your reasoning. The sources you've provided aren't necessarily false. It's the conclusions that you draw from them that's the problem. And what beliefs are those that are tainting my reasoning? You mean like Russia has been steadily advancing, or perhaps Ukraine is short on resources, or that Russia arty is doing it's job, NATO needs to step up it's support, those conclusions, I've reread all my sources and they are stating exactly what i posted, I mean i could use different sources i found tons of them, that back up what i'm been saying or trying to.... Maybe i'm not explaining it very well, hence why i throw the sources in... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 3 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Anyone seeking compromise, is *clearly* pro Putin and a Russia sympathizer. What he does not understand is Ukraine is paying a huge price in blood and treasure...and all of it is limited in scope and size in comparison to Russia's ...sooner or later it will run out if NATO does not step it up soon ...which right now there is no NATO agreement or will to do so...he seems oblivious to the price they have already paid, while NATO dithers in talks but little action... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: ...he seems oblivious to the price they have already paid, while NATO dithers in talks but little action... 100.000 Ukrainians killed in two years In comparison, over 1,000,000 Vietnamese were killed in the Vietnam War. 25,000,000 Russians were killed in WW2. Those two nations won their respective wars, yet lost anywhere from 100x to 250x the men Ukraine has lost. I have concluded that you could not care less about Ukrainian deaths, considering they have lost less than 1% of their prewar population. Why not just come out, and admit you are actively rooting for Russia, and relying on Russian state propaganda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 7 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: 100.000 Ukrainians killed in two years In comparison, over 1,000,000 Vietnamese were killed in the Vietnam War. 25,000,000 Russians were killed in WW2. Those two nations won their respective wars, yet lost anywhere from 100x to 250x the men Ukraine has lost. I have concluded that you could not care less about Ukrainian deaths, considering they have lost less than 1% of their prewar population. Why not just come out, and admit you are actively rooting for Russia, and relying on Russian state propaganda? First off your comparison is complete bullshit....no two wars are the same...And if we used your logic Ukraine could fight every man women and child to make up for the same losses as Russia had or some other country...i'm sure they are looking at your statement in amazement... Ukraine has a total population of around 37, million, with a large chunk of that has fled the country....and not 37 million fighting age people, Total military strength of about of regular forces about 190,000, and with 900,000 in reserve * note in front lines...Ukraine has lost according to US estimates up to 70,000 personal...and 100,000 to 140,000 wounded...with over 10,500 Ukrainian civilian deaths...I've been told my math is bad but at what i see is they have already lost 20 % of their fighting force, and if things were all cheery why is there a critical shortage of fighting troops... Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-faces-an-acute-manpower-shortage-with-young-men-dodging-the-draft/ Well here is a quote from some NATO generals who might also by rooting for Russia as you say....First one is from your home country is it not...How dare he the cheeky bastard.... Quote General Sir Richard Barrons has told the BBC there is "a serious risk" of Ukraine losing the war this year. The reason, he says, is "because Ukraine may come to feel it can't win". Quote But its forces are running critically low on ammunition, troops and air defences. Its much-heralded counter-offensive last year failed to dislodge the Russians from ground they had seized and now Moscow is gearing up for a summer offensive. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68778338 Quote First, this spring is about managing expectations as Ukraine won't have the gear or the personnel to launch a significant counteroffensive; second, Russia, with the help of its allies, has secured artillery superiority and, together with relentless ground attacks, is pounding Ukrainian positions; and third, without Western air defense and long-range missiles as well as artillery shells, Kyiv will struggle to mount a credible, sustained defense. https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-hang-on-in-2024-to-win-in-2025-putin-zelenskky-russia-counteroffensive/ US general warns time running out for Ukraine without US aid https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-general-warns-time-running-out-ukraine-without-us-aid-2024-04-10/ More of the same Russian cheerleaders.... Here is what life is like for Ukrainian soldiers, here is how they describe ineffective Russian arty....how did he describe it a living hell.... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-general-warns-time-running-out-ukraine-without-us-aid-2024-04-10/ You've been spewing lies about me and this issue from the start of this post...No where have i even come close to say i was cheerleading for the russians..Becasue you don't like the facts i have been providing you have branded me a Russian cheerleader....I guess thats your style of debating, when you have nothing constructive to say you make shit up...I know you won't read any of these sources, they are already branded russia cheerleaders by you people...I responded to your post because i thought you could debate honestly, and without all the drama...i guess not...I'm not interested in your drama sorry. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 (edited) 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: And what beliefs are those that are tainting my reasoning? You've already decided on a narrative, and you're going to ignore all evidence and reasoning that contradicts it. See: 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: You mean like Russia has been steadily advancing, They're not. You've looked at the maps, and to see these "steady advances" (measured in meters) you have to zoom the map in to the point where you see individual houses. The best part is it's all being gained for the low low cost of 1200 dead and wounded a day. Russia runs out of manpower long before the Ukrainians do, and decades before the Ukrainians run out of land, at that rate. "Advancing is advancing" is a stupid thing say in that context, especially as former army, when you actually know better. 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: that Russia arty is doing it's job, If the Russian arty is doing its job, it wouldn't be suffering 10x the casualties despite firing 10x more shells than the Ukrainians, and they'd actually be advancing (more than a few feet per day). "but but but 80% of the Ukrainian casualties are caused by Russian artillery" is not a counterpoint. All that means is that Russians suck worse at everything else. 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: NATO needs to step up it's support Yes, that's the one thing that we agree on. Economically, NATO and the West can trickle tiny, barely noticeable fractions of their budgets towards Ukraine, and evidently that's enough to foil Russians, who are pouring ~30% of their GDP into it. Step up support just a little bit, and the Russians can't keep up. They'll go bankrupt, and you and I will never notice the money sent to Ukraine. THOSE are the economies of scale we're looking at here. Russia is a dirt poor shithole full of servile mud people. The only thing Russia has going for it is that it has more lives to throw away, and Sad Vlad's desperate propaganda efforts to make the situation seem hopeless to simple minds in the West (with you obliging him). Edited July 6 by Moonbox 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Ukraine has a total population of around 37, million, with a large chunk of that has fled the country.... This is another one of your falsehoods. At the eve of the Russian invasion, Ukraine had just under 44 million people, not 37 million as you would ahve us believe. 37 million is the current active population of Ukraine. 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: You've been spewing lies about me and this issue from the start of this post.. That is because you are lying. Just come out, and admit that you want Putin to conquer Ukraine, and for the Ukrainians to surrender. 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: .No where have i even come close to say i was cheerleading for the russians. You have pretty much tried in vain to make a case for Ukraine surrendering to Russia, or as you call it "peace talks." 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: .Becasue you don't like the facts i have been providing you Most of what you post, is your personal feelings. Facts have no feelings. 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: ...I guess thats your style of debating, when you have nothing constructive to say you make shit up.. How ironic.... 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: .I know you won't read any of these sources, they are already branded russia cheerleaders by you people...I responded to your post because i thought you could debate honestly, and without all the drama...i guess not...I'm not interested in your drama sorry. Typical gaslighting. You have spent this entire thread on your feelings on the Ukraine war, and provided very few of outright inaccurate statements. So you do project onto others your lack of knowledge in regards to this conflict. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 10 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: Yes, we all know that two crooks have the best interest in society. They are both bound by self interest. Clinging to power. Extending their mandate. I fail to understand how this makes them any different than most politicians. You make a politician position as such as to where they have uncapped power, and most would be insanely corrupt. Some would be less, but you best believe, power would be abused. It then boils on volume of abuse vs actually abusing of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 The denial of reality and eagerness to sacrifice Ukrainian lives is staggering. Not to mention the cost to us. Meh...stoopid is as stoopid does. Let's go Brandon. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: What he does not understand is Ukraine is paying a huge price in blood and treasure I think the west is satisfied with the status quo, as long as its not their blood being poured. They are paying a relatively low price, all things considered, to put as much damage onto Russia while personally paying no price for it. The pressure for peace would be rapid, if it were thousands of US soldiers in body bags, or innocent civilians being killed, mutilated, raped or having your children kidnapped. They can continue to fight Russia from an incredibly safe distance. The Ukrainian government doesn't hold that type of comfort. They have seen the will of the population plumet, regarding standing firm on an uncompromising resolution with Russia. This will make Zelensky's job harder to go on like this very long, and he knows it as has seen it on the global stage, regarding the lack of support that he is getting on it. Many resolutions being offered, involve Ukraine losing sovereign land. 13 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: 100.000 Ukrainians killed in two years You're making it sound like it's a bargain. But when you have your polled population go from 80% in support of your hardlined stance plummet to just over 55%, you start to feel the weight of the pressure of people sick and tired of losing their loved ones, and feeling that this war will never end. Also, aware regarding their lost land, that it will likely be negotiated away (for a significant portion of it), anyways. Why not end it now? So end hostilities but critical should be an immediate and definite protection for Ukraine as being the red line that can't be crossed, instead, to avoid this from happening, again without catastrophic consequences for Russia. Not just the light spanking they are currently getting. 13 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: I have concluded that you could not care less about Ukrainian deaths Your post here makes absolutely no sense. Its not just the Ukrainian deaths (word on the street is Zelensky is keeping the actual numbers tight to his chest and that they are far worse than the paltry numbers he put out and at least somewhat better than the dire numbers from Putin. Its the destruction of their country. Systematically erasing their sense of selves, via the vandalism of many of their museums. Churches. Kidnapping thousands of children. Denazification, is essentially code word for the erasure of everything that Ukraine stands for, but has nothing to do with Nazis. The longer this goes on for, the worse off Ukraine will be. Not better. To paint it otherwise, is western propaganda, that wishes for one to believe that Ukraine should remain fighting, and not focus on any resolution that doesn't involve Russia begging for forgiveness, reversing course, and cowering out of their country empty handed. Its as delusional as Putins demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: They have seen the will of the population plumet, regarding standing firm on an uncompromising resolution with Russia. and what about the will of the people in Russia? Nevermind, I forgot. Putin has 89% approval rating, everyone loves the special military operation, Russia's soldiers are super motivated and are happy their lives are wasted frivolously. The country is not driving itself even deeper into an accelerating demographic decline either. Everything is GREAT. 🙄 Edited July 6 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: The denial of reality and eagerness to sacrifice Ukrainian lives is staggering. Not to mention the cost to us. Meh...stoopid is as stoopid does. Let's go Brandon. Denial of reality? It was over a month ago now you were on here telling is the latest Russian offensive was spelling the doom of Ukraine. They had no more men... How did that go again? Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 6 Report Share Posted July 6 16 minutes ago, User said: Denial of reality? It was over a month ago now you were on here telling is the latest Russian offensive was spelling the doom of Ukraine. They had no more men... How did that go again? With daily Russian advances, thousands more dead and nuclear missiles being prepared by the Americans and the Russians. Great news for all. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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