Ukraine Can't Win the War

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Where do you get this crap from?

From Russian soldiers and deserters:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/01/18/theyre-just-choosing-where-to-die-when-russias-poorly-trained-stormtroopers-retreat-russian-barrier-troops-gun-them-down/

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-soldiers-say-blocking-units-placed-behind-them-stop-retreat-2023-3

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/human-wave-tactics-are-demoralizing-the-russian-army-in-ukraine/

MSM FAKE NEWS right?  

If it's not from Russia Today, or Tucker Carlson, it just ain't true in clownworld.  

Edited July 10 by Moonbox

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

A high turnover rate nearly always means that the best and most productive employees leave for better jobs.

Some jobs (IE factories), will and can operate optimally with a revolving door. 

Long term, bullying will not work. Short term, this often tends to get results.

In jobs where short term employment is the norm, you will see such managers often get great results, at the expense of morale and turnover.

Am not saying it's a good thing, just pointing to the fact when you have a person running things like a dictatorship, you tend to get compliance especially in an environment where you have little to no rights.

Look at temporary foreign workers, as an example. You clearly have zero experience with employees in legal limbo, regarding their immigration status, if you think they are mostly working in non abusive situations where they aren't fully exploited. All done, legally, or rather with impunity from legal repercussions.

Yes, even in the west.

Also, high turnover usually can be kept at a minimum hiring certain employees. IE temporary foreign workers  or immigrants. 

4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

I did a 4 year degree in Occupational Health and Safety

That's nice. It doesn't stop this type of thing from happening. 

Some are more vulnerable to it than others.

Again, quitting isn't a luxury everyone has.

Must be nice when you do.

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

that correctly stated

Okay then, precisely how many Ukraine soldiers have died?

If its that easy to do, accurately.

[Army Guy]

18 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I suppose it's easy for you to feel that way when you just ignore and blow past any criticism of your reasoning, without even acknowledging it. Evidently, that's also what you seem to do when confronted with facts that contradict your chosen narrative.  See below:

YOU picked that place on the map, and it's ironically the place where the Russians are making the most progress.  Anywhere else, and the "gains" are even more underwhelming. 

You cannot do the same to make your point, because what you're claiming is not real.  

Now, instead of rambling off another useless 5 paragraph essay, nut up  and show us a place where the Russians are advancing kilometers per day, as you've claimed.  

Alternatively, you can save yourself some time and acknowledge that your misinformed on that.  

That's not what i did, in fact i mentioned to you that i went back to each post and checked that my thought process was the same as the sources i provided, i even asked you to provide an example, which you did and answered you back that i do not see the same thing as you do...

I did pick a place on the map.... Your top map does not match the bottom map in anyway, hence i asked you to clarify or give more context for that map like in which area is it , as it does not match the bottom maps...

MY claims was that Russian troops are gaining ground...and in some cases KM's a day...

scroll down to the source map i provided ,Use the maps legend and it will say solid red line was the last Russia positions, Doted red line is advances russia has made in the last 24 hours, yellow shaded area are Russian gains not yet confirmed...you need to measure form the solid red line to the dotted red line, thats the distance in the last 24 hours....which will only increase once the yellow areas are confirmed...Not sure why this is so difficult....the map legend tells you exactly what is what on the map...

[DUI_Offender]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Some jobs (IE factories), will and can operate optimally with a revolving door. 

Long term, bullying will not work. Short term, this often tends to get results.

In jobs where short term employment is the norm, you will see such managers often get great results, at the expense of morale and turnover.

I will give you as much time as need be to provide sources for this dubious claim, especially since I can find at least 20 studies that prove this is blatantly false.

If you want a shit product from a country with no human rights, one can obtain it. India, China, and other places with poor human rights often produce massive amounts of goods for the West. The problem is, that these products are of the low end quality, and the product recall is exceptionally high.

Compare that to a country like Germany, France or Italy, where they enjoy full human and workplace rights. The Germans, in particular, are known for their meticulous detail, and high customer satisfaction. Most First World Nations are. 

If you want the cheapest products on the market, I am sure one can find tons of goods imported from Asia and Africa, where the iron fist and intimidation rules the workplace. It does not mean the products will be any good. Quality always wins out over quantity.

Edited July 10 by DUI_Offender

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

MY claims was that Russian troops are gaining ground...and in some cases KM's a day...

Gaining ground, yes.  KMs a day, definitely not.  We're talking meters.  

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

scroll down to the source map i provided ,Use the maps legend and it will say solid red line was the last Russia positions, Doted red line is advances russia has made in the last 24 hours, yellow shaded area are Russian gains not yet confirmed...you need to measure form the solid red line to the dotted red line, thats the distance in the last 24 hours....

YOU ARE READING IT WRONG.   I already explained how this is WRONG, and I even showed you a screenshot, with the legend.  HERE'S ANOTHER ONE.  Either you're color blind, or you're bad at reading maps.  You tell us.  

This heroic success is about 200m, and it's one of only two such instances on the entire 1000km front line.  This is the progress Russia is making daily, and all for the low-low cost of ~1000 casualties a day.  

Edited July 10 by Moonbox

[DUI_Offender]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Okay then, precisely how many Ukraine soldiers have died?

You tell me, since you seem to have all the answers. 

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

If you want a shit product from a country with no human rights, one can obtain it. India, China

China has tons of high quality products. India is one of the best producers of textiles, which is why many use them in fashion.

You're ignoring the good products that come from China. If you use an I Phone, you literally contribute to the very work environment I am eluding to. 

This isn't standard in the west, unless you're looking at companies hiring immigrants who would actually remain under such conditions. 

Your studies may be correct for say, Canadian or American born employees in each respective country, but any deviation from comfort would have such people whine, which is why a lot of such jobs get outsourced.

Buy strawberries, then again. You need specific type of employers to get the most of such people.

Yes, in the west. If you think you eating organic fruit is any different, it isn't.

Of course if you treat most people like dirt they will leave. 

What I am eluding to, is that in some settings the opposite rings true. 

It will entirely depend on where you get your employees. Hire an American to pick watermelon, and they will likely whine all shift, and want vacation time after a couple work days.

Your books and stats are nice and tidy, but savvy employers know how to circumvent this.

Same reasoning that will have inmates in Russia going to battle, and fight with the ferocity and brutality that matches the will of their employer.

27 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

You tell me

I told you, there are no means to know, as numbers are inflated and essentially are educated guesses at best.

You felt otherwise. Shouldn't you be showing me?

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

From Russian soldiers and deserters:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/01/18/theyre-just-choosing-where-to-die-when-russias-poorly-trained-stormtroopers-retreat-russian-barrier-troops-gun-them-down/

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-soldiers-say-blocking-units-placed-behind-them-stop-retreat-2023-3

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/human-wave-tactics-are-demoralizing-the-russian-army-in-ukraine/

MSM FAKE NEWS right?  

If it's not from Russia Today, or Tucker Carlson, it just ain't true in clownworld.  

I see a lot of "could" in this crap.

Do try to do better.

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

I see a lot of "could" in this crap.

Do try to do better.

Did you?  Because the word "could" only showed up a single time, in three different sources.  

That doesn't matter for you though, because clownworld works differently than reality.  🤡🤡🤡

Edited July 10 by Moonbox

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Did you?  Because the word "could" only showed up a single time, in three different sources.  

That doesn't matter for you though, because clownworld works differently than reality.  🤡🤡🤡

Ya ya yaaa...i can show you Ukraine soldiers who defect and are angry enough to kill Zelinsky...big deal. Welcome to combat Dweebles.

Are the Russians sending deserters back to the front? I suppose you'd claim you wouldn't?

 

[DUI_Offender]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

blah blah blah

...still waiting for the sources I asked you for, that claim companies who treat workers horrible, with high turnover and poor morale, outproduce companies who treat workers good (full benefits, incentives/rewards for achievement, etc)..

 

You do this all the time. Make a ridiculous claim, and fail to provide sources to back it up.

39 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ya ya yaaa...i can show you Ukraine soldiers who defect and are angry enough to kill Zelinsky...

 

Show us, Nationalist! I dare ya!

[Perspektiv]

51 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Make a ridiculous claim

You often need to have things spelled out and take things out of context or put words in mouths that don't belong.

If am the devil, you're an angel with a pitchfork. 

The "bla bla bla" quoted, then trying to take the high road in your post, is like watching my toddler nephew fight, while kicking a sibling when the parents aren't looking, and crying foul when he is hit over the head with a toy.

Duck, next time?

[blackbird]

On 2/25/2024 at 8:32 AM, Perspektiv said:

With a looming US election and the realities on the battleground, one can't help but wonder why one would want to delay the inevitable any longer.

I am not so sure about that.  NATO is committed to the defence of the Ukraine.  As long as NATO sticks to its promises to defend the Ukraine and increases more defensive aid, it may not be worthwhile for Russia to keep the war going indefinitely.  At some point, there will have to be a solution found that will satisfy both sides, even if reluctantly.

[Perspektiv]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

At some point, there will have to be a solution found that will satisfy both sides, even if reluctantly.

Compromise, negotiations and dialogue. Point am making in thread. This is the only way this war ends.

You cannot end a war with Russia in your country, without some compromise with them.

Russia will need to understand anything that doesn't ensure the safety of Ukraine, is garbage.

 

[DUI_Offender]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Blah blah...

Still waiting for your sources....

[Nationalist]

16 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Show us, Nationalist! I dare ya!

https://rumble.com/v20cd98-ukrainian-soldiers-in-bakhmut-threaten-zelensky-with-hanging-in-the-center-.html

 

[Army Guy]

22 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Gaining ground, yes.  KMs a day, definitely not.  We're talking meters.  

YOU ARE READING IT WRONG.   I already explained how this is WRONG, and I even showed you a screenshot, with the legend.  HERE'S ANOTHER ONE.  Either you're color blind, or you're bad at reading maps.  You tell us.  

This heroic success is about 200m, and it's one of only two such instances on the entire 1000km front line.  This is the progress Russia is making daily, and all for the low-low cost of ~1000 casualties a day.  

I'm not reading it WRONG, nor color blind, and yes i can read a map, .... Here i provided 3 examples of gains over 1 km...and in one case almost 2 km...

There are other examples where they only took ground measured in meters such as your example...it should also be noted the Yellow zones are in russian hands but not confirmed as of yet...in time they will be..

As of today there are 3 examples of Russian advances, yesterday and the day before were slow days for advances...the fact is the map is a living document changing every day...does not necessarily mean i can not read a map or color blind.

Edited July 11 by Army Guy

[Moonbox]

26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

As of today there are 3 examples of Russian advances, yesterday and the day before were slow days for advances...the fact is the map is a living document changing every day...does not necessarily mean i can not read a map or color blind.

Okay that's better.  At least now we have something specific to talk about.  Now let's put it into context. 

If yesterday and the day before were "slow days" as you say, are we to assume that today was not?  If we combine this with the past two days' gains, we're looking at an area equal to 2-3 average sized Canadian farms, taken after 3 days of fighting (and presumably ~3000 casualties), on a 1000 km war front.  

What military doctrine teaches "advancing is advancing", and that losing entire battalions worth of soldiers is worth a single farmer's field?  🤔

[Perspektiv]

9 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Still waiting for your sources....

Sources for what? Show me my quote, and I will show you me spelling it out for you. 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Okay that's better.  At least now we have something specific to talk about.  Now let's put it into context. 

If yesterday and the day before were "slow days" as you say, are we to assume that today was not?  If we combine this with the past two days' gains, we're looking at an area equal to 2-3 average sized Canadian farms, taken after 3 days of fighting (and presumably ~3000 casualties), on a 1000 km war front.  

What military doctrine teaches "advancing is advancing", and that losing entire battalions worth of soldiers is worth a single farmer's field?  🤔

Slow days might have been the wrong choice of words, 10 to 20 attacks is not a slow day, it is heavy fighting, and the war gods favored one side over the other...Mr Murphy dictates what is going to happen every hour of the day...

Warfare is like a game of chess, it is very difficult to guess what the enemy is going to do hour after hour, one can move troops around the board to gain advantages elsewhere, force the enemy to also move pieces around....

if your constantly attacking in these meat assaults' you prevent Ukraine from moving or reinforcing other sectors...unless you use reserve forces in the rear...

Ukraines issue is the lack these Reserve forces, most are already committed to the front...SO when they do move, it allows russia to attack weak points and make these gains...

These meat assualts are common Russian tactics, these were developed before WWII, the entire cold war strategy was based on it as well they have always depended on superior numbers to overwhelm the enemy...they have never relied on quality of weapons but rather quantity of weapons'....

In Russia lives are cheap, and they have many of them, the question i have asked Why is russia using these tactics,, if it concerns them then we should see a reluctance to use these tactics, and yet across the entire front we see 10 to 20 attacks a day...resulting in heavy losses and while these attacks are very expensive on russian lives, they are also expensive of Ukrainian lives and resources...consuming them faster than NATO can support....faster than NATO can train them...Russia knows this, it also knows that NATO support is not forever, we will know when Russia gives up these tactics that they have become aware of the heavy losses i don't think that is anytime soon...

[DUI_Offender]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I will just pretend that I have shown multiple sources of my claims, or act intentionally obtuse, like I do any single time someone calls me out. 

 

Still waiting....

Edited July 11 by DUI_Offender

[DUI_Offender]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

https://rumble.com/v20cd98-ukrainian-soldiers-in-bakhmut-threaten-zelensky-with-hanging-in-the-center-.html

 

What I meant, was a reliable source for your claims. Some random blogger does not count.

 

Edited July 11 by DUI_Offender

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

I have no argument, so will pick on something you said, as if it were a sweeping statement. I will keep demanding for links each time, to distract from the fact that my argument isn't good. Just watch.

Am watching.....

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

What I meant, was a reliable source for your claims. Some random blogger does not count.

 

Sure he does and Lancaster is no random blogger. Sure he's not reporting the Zelinsky approved narrative but...gathering ALL the facts is what forms accurate conclusions. Something you repeatedly fail at.