I am Groot Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Durham Police are celebrating Black History Month! Yaaayy! Yesterday they picked three disadvantaged black gentlemen from a marginalized community who were the victims of white oppression and systemic discrimination and awarded them free room and board for a minimum of ten years! https://www.drps.ca/news/update-2-double-homicide-in-bowmanville/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 56 minutes ago, I am Groot said: 1. But what is the actual point of increasing participation for marginalized people who can't otherwise qualify based on merit? 1. That's a separate question. I don't think that happening here. And I don't think that happens generally. For the teacher example, they still require an education degree but you will be fast tracked as a male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Many people on here have said that that's preferable to immigration. Immigration is more realistic. You can't force people to have kids. Many are having far less, and doing so later in life. Its about understanding how many immigrants that you can bring in. It doesn't prove any point, as his point was patriarchy, stopping women from advancement. How is patriarchy stopping a woman from ascending in her career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 5 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: 1. How is patriarchy stopping a woman from ascending in her career? 1. I think I mentioned above about a black lady doctor who was subjected to a lot of abuse in medical school due to her race and gender... This person spoke at a symposium I was part of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I think I mentioned above about a black lady doctor who was subjected to a lot of abuse in medical school due to her race and gender. Is it systemic, though? I'm highly inquisitive. I'd be wanting to know when it happened. What were the consequences for those who perpetrated the behavior (in that, is this accepted or tolerated), and so on. An actual system stopping women from being doctors? Male driven, no less? While highly unfortunate, your story points to an event, but not an actual problem within the industry. Again, you're more than welcome to correct me if wrong. My doctor's clinic, has mostly women. You look at the US, and more than half the doctors there, are women. Less than half, in Canada. However, this is an ascending number, so its only a matter of time, before the same pattern is seen here, too. Where is the patriarchy? What am seeing, are women who have been positioned socially, to exceed men, and are whining about how its not fully equal in the best possible positions, ignoring there literally are no barriers for them to reach them, socially. There would be no female billionaires, if this were the case. Let alone, black ones. Most billionaires are men? Well, guess who will come out of the woodwork whining about it? You will never see women whining about most gang killings, being men. Most military deaths. Occupational deaths, in the workplace. Remember that roofing job or logging, that no women seemed to want to touch? Guess who's deaths dwarf that of women? If you guessed men, you're doing good. Keep reading. Women don't want equality. They want superiority. There literally are no systemic levels of inequality within the workplace. Point one out. Point to patriarchy as a system, stopping women from ascending in their career. Pointing to most roofers being male, isn't inequality. It points to most women, not wanting to do such a s****y job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, Perspektiv said: Is it systemic, though? Possibly not. I would classify a discussion on that topic as having an academic audience, like "whiteness"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. That's a separate question. I don't think that happening here. And I don't think that happens generally. For the teacher example, they still require an education degree but you will be fast tracked as a male. We're not talking about fast-tracking here, but of preferential hiring. And if they are qualified on merit, they don't need preferential hiring and promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, I am Groot said: And if they are qualified on merit, they don't need preferential hiring and promotion. You're assuming there's a way to grade them absolutely, against each other. It might not be so. Is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 (edited) 14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I think I mentioned above about a black lady doctor who was subjected to a lot of abuse in medical school due to her race and gender... This person spoke at a symposium I was part of. Yet she got the symposium gig out of her story. I think there are opportunities to make hay out of stories of discrimination. I shared an apartment with a black med student. He was smart and hard working and no one I knew would dare say an insulting word towards him, racist or otherwise. If he ran into people with racist attitudes along the way, he never mentioned it nor did it hold him back, because his leadership qualities and strength were simply far too powerful to be objected. Anyone with the power to hold him back and who attempted to do so would be a pariah. I think you need to think more critically and look at what’s to be gained by oppression narratives. Edited March 10 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 (edited) 6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: You're assuming there's a way to grade them absolutely, against each other. It might not be so. Is that right? If you think that racism plays such a large role in assessment, it’s easy to create blind marking using numbers or codes instead of names for tests, exams, etc. Edited March 10 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. That's a separate question. I don't think that happening here. And I don't think that happens generally. For the teacher example, they still require an education degree but you will be fast tracked as a male. Do you have evidence of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I think you need to think more critically and look at what’s to be gained by oppression narratives. I don't think people like this realize, that you're essentially making these people believe they are inferior. This means more who won't care much for consequences for their behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: I don't think people like this realize, that you're essentially making these people believe they are inferior. This means more who won't care much for consequences for their behavior. Well exactly. No one gets a pass to be less competent or to be racist. I also find that once someone resorts to the victim narrative in areas where its impact is debatable or negligible, everyone who isn’t in the designated victim group stops weighing in, because no one wants to hurt or offend or say something bigoted, so there’s no real scrutiny of purported mistreatment. It’s easier just to go along to get along, to listen and smile and nod. That’s not to downplay clear injustice and mistreatment, which must always be addressed, and most people understand that. It seems like some people like to wear victimhood like a badge. Life is hard; some have faced serious adversity, and I’m sure more struggles exist among minorities, but so much depends on each individual and our laws are fair. Everyone is unique. It’s not what you have that counts. It’s what you do with what you have. Once rights and fair laws are in place, the work of improving attitudes remains, but what will do that? Conscientiousness, hard work, kindness, collaboration, all the virtues that everyone must pursue to be a successful human. We’re in a good place on the whole, but some things are about human nature and individual responsibility, not “the system”. Rigging the system to favour groups, even ones that were mistreated in the past, only creates more injustice. I don’t think Black History Month has to be about any of that. It can and should be about black excellence, so that black children see themselves reflected in our cultural pantheon, and so that we’re all reminded that greatness comes in all races, colours, etc. It takes nothing away from anyone. I do think it can seem a bit tokenized, having designated months or days. It can be infantilizing because really great people should be recognized without regard to race, etc. I guess we’re in transition. Then again, we should have an MLK day, remember people like Rosa Parks, and keep those days locked in. I realize some of that is specifically American. Edited March 10 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: You're assuming there's a way to grade them absolutely, against each other. It might not be so. Is that right? I have never found it difficult to decide who to hire in job interviews. Sure, qualifications can look similar on paper. And might even be so. But there's an indefinable personal quality that almost every employer or manager is looking for that tells you how hard they'll work, how responsible and honest they are, how well they'll get along with and communicate with people/customers/clients, how good they are at improvising or innovation. I don't want someone who is going to show up at my office every hour or two because they don't know how to handle a fairly routine problem unless they're new. I don't want indecisive people. And none of that really shows up just checking off qualifications from a resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Rigging the system to favour groups, even ones that were mistreated in the past, only creates more injustice. This is what colleges and universities buying into this, are doing. Justifying discriminatory practices, using past history none have physically been part of, as justification. It can't be discrimination if done to a white person, being the narrative of some. All this does, is teach the exact same division and hate that those prior generations of people were trying to move past. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 44 minutes ago, I am Groot said: 1. I have never found it difficult to decide who to hire in job interviews. 1. Not my experience. But valid. Even so, your top choice given equal qualifications doesn't mean those who missed the cut were unqualified. Some of the DEI promotion is there to counteract known effects of the subjective judgment you yourself believe in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Not my experience. But valid. Even so, your top choice given equal qualifications doesn't mean those who missed the cut were unqualified. Some of the DEI promotion is there to counteract known effects of the subjective judgment you yourself believe in. Why do you make the assumption that someone is going to disadvantage someone without some kind of artificial advantage? I’ve always been a champion of the underdog. Everyone likes a Cinderella story. If someone comes from a challenging background and does a good job, I want to see them succeed. Sometimes those underdogs are black. Sometimes they’re not. Every individual is unique. Making sweeping judgments about a person’s background based on race is biased. There are these academic coaches specifically for black students in high schools in Ontario now. I find it the most presumptuous racist kind of assistance: “Black kids need extra help because they don’t do well.” Why not just offer extra help to students who need it? Edited March 10 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Not my experience. But valid. Even so, your top choice given equal qualifications doesn't mean those who missed the cut were unqualified. Some of the DEI promotion is there to counteract known effects of the subjective judgment you yourself believe in. True. But I've seen how secondary requirements not particularly necessary to the job have gotten people promoted beyond their means a number of times. And I and close friends have run into such people and had to deal with their floundering. DEI introduces a set of criteria immaterial to the work which is not applied evenly. When your bonus depends on hiring/promoting members of preferred identity groups you are going to put pressure on your subordinates to FIND them. And those subordinates are going to have to compromise, at times, and hire people they otherwise would not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 On 3/8/2024 at 4:33 PM, impartialobserver said: They are free to complain about WHM.. keep in mind that you are complaining about BHM. Why do you crave affirmation so much? I crave for a day when i will see white people get a White History Month and be recognized for how the white folk have done a tremendous job of trying to make the world a better place to live and thrive in. Something you left wing Marxist liberal loonies do not ever want to see happen. Why do white liberals like yourself hate your white colored skin anyway? Do you carry that much white guilt-ridden nonsense by chance? Get over your white woke guilt privilege sillyness and get on with your life. 😁 Equality means that if blacks can have a black history month, than why cannot white people have a history month named in their honor also? It is racism not to do so. 😇 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 On 3/9/2024 at 7:12 AM, I am Groot said: This is what you answer to my question of why does it matter that women don't want to be cops or geologists. The inference being "We know what's good for them! They will go to the jobs we direct them to!" The depth of arrogance in that answer is just breathtaking. More dumbassery. Offering people choices, letting them know that they belong in a field if they choose to enter it is the opposite of "directing people" into jobs. Quote All universities provide equal access to all fields. And you have provided zero evidence to the contrary. By insisting that these fields 'provide' opportunities you are demanding special consideration beyond equality. Imagine thinking offering access to everyone and actually being open to everyone are the same thing. Quote It's you who assumes a woman can't be qualified on merit. Just as you assume the same for black and brown people. Because if you and your ilk thought otherwise you wouldn't be so furiously opposed to hiring based on merit. In fact, it's a Leftist belief that 'hiring on merit is racist'. Which is why we call your beliefs racist. "It's racist to believe that racism prevents people from being hired on merit" is a galaxy brained take. Quote A close friend is a mechanic. In fact, he's in charge of the service section at a major dealership. Being a mechanic is dirty, physically difficult work that few women have either the physical ability or desire for. And? Quote If that's the case then everyone who comes here from the Philippines and Southeast Asia would also have those resources and, by your logic, should be equally successful here as those from Japan, Korea or China. Why would you assume they have the same resources, or preexisting levels of educational attainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 19 hours ago, taxme said: I crave for a day when i will see white people get a White History Month and be recognized for how the white folk have done a tremendous job of trying to make the world a better place to live and thrive in. Something you left wing Marxist liberal loonies do not ever want to see happen. Why do white liberals like yourself hate your white colored skin anyway? Do you carry that much white guilt-ridden nonsense by chance? Get over your white woke guilt privilege sillyness and get on with your life. 😁 Equality means that if blacks can have a black history month, than why cannot white people have a history month named in their honor also? It is racism not to do so. 😇 You can crave for it to happen and if it happens..... yawn. You pretend like I am passionate about BHM... you are too zealous to possibly discern this. I have no white guilt. I simply do not care.. is that simple enough for your simple mind? So what.. I am white. It means nothing. I do get on with my life.. you should take your own advice. I go about my life every day trying to make the best of every day with no respect to my being white. You on the other hand.. can't get over this. Quite sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 21 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: You can crave for it to happen and if it happens..... yawn. You pretend like I am passionate about BHM... you are too zealous to possibly discern this. I have no white guilt. I simply do not care.. is that simple enough for your simple mind? So what.. I am white. It means nothing. I do get on with my life.. you should take your own advice. I go about my life every day trying to make the best of every day with no respect to my being white. You on the other hand.. can't get over this. Quite sad. It would appear as though you cannot seem to see the writing on the wall. The white folk are under increasing attacks by the chosen one globalists who seem to be trying to eliminate all things white and beautiful. I will not stand by and allow those that want to destroy my white race w/o a fight. Sit on your ass and watch as things will get worse for you, whitey. 👎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, taxme said: The white folk are under increasing attacks by the chosen one globalists who seem to be trying to eliminate all things white and beautiful. And no, he's not a racist in the least.... [/s] All things white and beautiful... Hymn 23 in his KKK church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 On 3/9/2024 at 1:33 PM, Michael Hardner said: 1. I think I mentioned above about a black lady doctor who was subjected to a lot of abuse in medical school due to her race and gender... This person spoke at a symposium I was part of. Leslyn Lewis went through medical school and I never heard her complain about anything. Some people just rub others the wrong way. Trudeau is a white male and probably only Clifford Olsen is more hated in this country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, herbie said: And no, he's not a racist in the least.... [/s] And no, no one asked for your worthless opinion... Quote All things white and beautiful... Hymn 23 in his KKK church Awww look at you bein' the big SJW. Now go flex in the mirror, see if you're way more intimidatinger than you were this morning, beast boy. Would you call a black person racist of they said "black and beautiful"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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