As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do. (or why it's ok for parents to question)

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, but the winds of change are taken up by youth also.  

They certainly are.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

1. I think the single biggest challenge today is the kowtowing to radical interests.  

2. The interests of the vast majority, everyone really, get lost.  

3. There are tax dollars funding special interests that are undermining the hard work of raising kids.  

1. And I'm sure you would define radical as some kind of 'wokeist' thing.  If I may guess at your thinking that is.

I would say our challenges are: Unity followed by Economic/Environmental together. 

When did this woke stuff take off ?  Ten or 15 years ago ?  So what was the challenge before that ?  All was fine ?

2.  Agreed.

3.  Intriguing.  We're trying to fund daycare in Canada and it's not going great.  Tax cuts for the wealthy and salary cuts for workers would be a good way to get money back to the people IMO.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think the single biggest challenge today is the kowtowing to radical interests.  The interests of the vast majority, everyone really, get lost.  There are tax dollars funding special interests that are undermining the hard work of raising kids. Our leaders are so scared of bad press or blog commentary that they go along to get along.  It’s a failure of leadership.

The challenge is the left's tendency to "attack" which is now being picked up by the right.

Left wing person:  "youth today may face gender issues and may not be comfortable telling their parents".

Right wing person:  Well i can see that concern and maybe that needs to be addressed but parents also...

LEFT - BIGOT!!!! RACIST!!!!  TRANSPHOBE!!!! WhY DO YOU WANT TO KILL YOUR CHILDREN?!?! NAZI SCUM!!!!! YOU SHOULD BE FIRED! YOU SHOULD BE CANCELED!!! WE SHOULD GRAFITTI YOUR HOME!!! WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW?!?!!@?

First - any chance of a dialoge is now gone.

Look at some of the goings on here.  I posted a study about the vaccine and how for very specific sex/age groups it was actually more dangerous than covid and i asked knowing that in hindsight should we have forced it on people or should it just have been a choice?

I got one guy freaking out pretending that math isnt a real thing till he accidently posted a second study that proved i was right all along and then got another guy claiming that i - who had chosen to take the vaccine - was a super ant-woke vaccine Koolaid far right nutjob who just hates the vaccine and all who take it.

Neither addressed the issue. Just freaked out and somehow these studies were now my fault.

You can't have a sensible conversation when one side of the isle is like that.

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The challenge is the left's tendency to "attack" which is now being picked up by the right.

Left wing person:  "youth today may face gender issues and may not be comfortable telling their parents".

Right wing person:  Well i can see that concern and maybe that needs to be addressed but parents also...

LEFT - BIGOT!!!! RACIST!!!!  TRANSPHOBE!!!! WhY DO YOU WANT TO KILL YOUR CHILDREN?!?! NAZI SCUM!!!!! YOU SHOULD BE FIRED! YOU SHOULD BE CANCELED!!! WE SHOULD GRAFITTI YOUR HOME!!! WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW?!?!!@?

First - any chance of a dialoge is now gone.

Look at some of the goings on here.  I posted a study about the vaccine and how for very specific sex/age groups it was actually more dangerous than covid and i asked knowing that in hindsight should we have forced it on people or should it just have been a choice?

I got one guy freaking out pretending that math isnt a real thing till he accidently posted a second study that proved i was right all along and then got another guy claiming that i - who had chosen to take the vaccine - was a super ant-woke vaccine Koolaid far right nutjob who just hates the vaccine and all who take it.

Neither addressed the issue. Just freaked out and somehow these studies were now my fault.

You can't have a sensible conversation when one side of the isle is like that.

What’s been very surprising to me is that the “progressives” used to be associated with open-mindedness, free speech, respect for constitutional rights, and facts instead of ideology or mere opinion.  It’s the opposite now.  The conservative voice is the voice of sanity, free speech, dialogue, fairness, and responsibility. I realize that there’s an element of blue pill versus red pill. Blue is the pill of denial and suppression.  Red is the pill of reality and honesty.  I’ve taken the red pill.  The blue pilled people appear as zombies once you start talking honestly about what’s happening.

Edited February 7 by Zeitgeist

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You implied in 2. that 'unsubstantiated' claims aren't valid.  What you are doing is indeed substantiating a claim, which is good.  But you are doing it based on your own experiences, which doesn't give an overall view of the situation.
2. I didn't expect that my claim would be challenged, fair enough.  So I took a look at my claim and used PEW to see if it was correct.  This is the important thing: I admit that I wasn't sure of my claim, and so when you challenged it I went to PEW to look.
3. The result of PEW polling from just under two years ago shows that indeed support for being more "accepting" of transgender increases by 50% as you poll people from 65+ down to their 20s or so.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/

ok so this PEW thing is 2 years old but I find it interesting that the main question is:

Quote

Most favor protecting trans people from discrimination, even as growing share say gender is determined by sex at birth

Protect yes...promote and encourage the young to move towards such a direction...definitely not. Trannies are welcome to be trannies. They are not welcome to encourage adolescents...or kids...to follow them down that rabbit hole.

 I also found the bottom graph rather telling...

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What’s been very surprising to me is that the “progressives” used to be associated with open-mindedness, free speech, respect for constitutional rights, and facts instead of ideology or mere opinion.  It’s the opposite now.  The conservative voice is the voice of sanity, free speech, dialogue, fairness, and responsibility. I realize that there’s an element of blue pill versus red pill. Blue is the pill of denial and suppression.  Red is the pill of reality and honesty.  I’ve taken the red pill.  The blue pilled people appear as zombies once you start talking honestly about what’s happening.

I know. It's actually quite shocking.  But - if you go back even further the left was all about statism and socialism and communism and a complete obedience to the greater society good.  And then if you go back even farther than THAT - we get into freedoms and rights and bucking the establishment again.  LOL  

So maybe it's just a cycle. Maybe 30 years from now the left will once again care about free speech and human rights and individual choice and such.

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. ...this PEW thing is 2 years old but I find it interesting that the main question is:

2. Protect yes...promote and encourage the young to move towards such a direction... 

1. Fair comment as attitudes to this are changing quickly.
2. I was looking at the poll near the top that said 'accept'.  But your observations are considerable.

[Nationalist]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Fair comment as attitudes to this are changing quickly.
2. I was looking at the poll near the top that said 'accept'.  But your observations are considerable.

The problem most people have is that they mistake someone not wanting trannie lifestyle choked down their throats, with a desire to make them some sort of second-class citizens. That's simply not the case. The vast majority of conservatives treasure individuality. They just don't want warped sexuality forced into their purview.

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. The problem most people have is that they mistake someone not wanting trannie lifestyle choked down their throats, with a desire to make them some sort of second-class citizens. That's simply not the case.
2. The vast majority of conservatives treasure individuality.
3. They just don't want warped sexuality forced into their purview.

1. I think that progress is made and the idea that it hasn't is a zealot's viewpoint.
2. It is me.
3. It's hard to force sexuality into ones purview, orgy missteps notwithstanding.  In such a case, the seasoned pro will attend with headgear.

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I think that progress is made and the idea that it hasn't is a zealot's viewpoint.
2. It is me.
3. It's hard to force sexuality into ones purview, orgy missteps notwithstanding.  In such a case, the seasoned pro will attend with headgear.

1. I'm not even sure we should call it "progress". Most reasonable folks are OK with trans people...as far as I know.

2. Me too.

3. Headgrear...LOL...good one. I meant the storytime crap and the school books and lectures. It has no place in schools prior to Highschool at least.

[CdnFox]

51 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. I'm not even sure we should call it "progress". Most reasonable folks are OK with trans people...as far as I know.

Everyone was fine with trans and gays and les etc  when there was an understanding that we'd all keep what happened in our bedrooms etc to ourselves and otherwise just focus on getting along. Sure there was the odd dolt who hated gays and the odd gay who went around demanding that churches marry them but by and large things were good.

Then came the 'woke wave' and that wasnt enough any more. They demanded to play women's sports. They demanded that we go to jail for not using their pronouns. They demanded parents had no rights.  They demanded that they be allowed to groom kids.

And pretty quick there's a problem. They started a culture war and now it's all 'us vs them'.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I hope you were in an elevator when you wrote that because it's hilarious on so many levels.....

Yeah but apparently he doesn't think so. Seems quite crabby lately.

He must be going through man-opause.    

[Nationalist]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Everyone was fine with trans and gays and les etc  when there was an understanding that we'd all keep what happened in our bedrooms etc to ourselves and otherwise just focus on getting along. Sure there was the odd dolt who hated gays and the odd gay who went around demanding that churches marry them but by and large things were good.

Then came the 'woke wave' and that wasnt enough any more. They demanded to play women's sports. They demanded that we go to jail for not using their pronouns. They demanded parents had no rights.  They demanded that they be allowed to groom kids.

And pretty quick there's a problem. They started a culture war and now it's all 'us vs them'.

BINGO!

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What’s been very surprising to me is that the “progressives” used to be associated with open-mindedness, free speech, respect for constitutional rights, and facts instead of ideology or mere opinion.  It’s the opposite now.  The conservative voice is the voice of sanity, free speech, dialogue, fairness, and responsibility. I realize that there’s an element of blue pill versus red pill. Blue is the pill of denial and suppression.  Red is the pill of reality and honesty.  I’ve taken the red pill.  The blue pilled people appear as zombies once you start talking honestly about what’s happening.

Too many years of liberal poison, causing permanent structural changes, making the vital organs of society function improperly. We now need to detox and focus on clean living. Well, so the doc told me.

But hopefully there is nothing actually new here that hasn't happened before. Liberals have exploited their position of power to the point it is now an empty shell. That's why we need sweeping reforms. Hence, Danielle Smith is a genius.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

They are not welcome to encourage adolescents...or kids...to follow them down that rabbit hole.

Some may do that, but others will see and hear about the fallout, such as those who regretted making their change. I think most kids will be alright despite the faulty messaging coming from radicals. They know, if it smells like poopoo.

 

As for us "adults", is on us to speak out against bad government and to criticize. I will bet one dollar that the vast majority of parents resoundingly approve of Smith's new policies. We just don't get to hear their opinion, only the lgbtx point of view as per the federally bought media.

Hey maybe even the Dofo might consider adopting it into ON. They are supposed to meet soon. But does he really have the testicular fortitude that she has?

Naaa...  

[Queenmandy85]

Part of the new policies in Alberta and Saskatchewan concerns names and pronouns. Why is it an issue if a student asks the teacher to address the student using a particular name and pronoun. It is not something that is irreversable. It is a question of a person's personal choice and is nobody else's business. It is something that concerns only the student and the teacher. Does government have the right to take away a person's freedom of choice?

[OftenWrong]

19 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Part of the new policies in Alberta and Saskatchewan concerns names and pronouns. Why is it an issue if a student asks the teacher to address the student using a particular name and pronoun. It is not something that is irreversable. It is a question of a person's personal choice and is nobody else's business. It is something that concerns only the student and the teacher. Does government have the right to take away a person's freedom of choice?

Seems like you are really grasping at straws here. If that's the best you can do to complain about it, can't be that bad after all. A teacher does not know what you want to be called, it's on the attendance sheet and that's it. There should be no confusion about the student's identity. 

On the other hand if the students parents are notified and agree to make it an official change, they are allowed to do that. 

At that young an age, it is NOT something that concerns "only the student and the teacher". 

As a parent of children who were once young, I would never accept that my child has a secret with another adult not in my family. Why is that so hard for you people to get?  🤷‍♂️

Edited February 8 by OftenWrong

[Queenmandy85]

You mean you told your parents everything? You didn't have any secrets from your parents?

 

You wrote, "I would never accept that my child has a secret with another adultnot in my family."

You make it sound like using another name in school is tantamount to child molesting. We are just talking about a name. Most teenagers tell their parents as little as possible.

In the interest of inconsistancy, the only people teenagers have less respect for than their parents is their teachers. Kids are basically immune to teachers influence. Yes, there are the class sucks, but most students hold their teacher to be objects of ridicule. The only people who can influence teenagers are other teenagers.

Edited February 8 by Queenmandy85

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

i - who had chosen to take the vaccine - was a super ant-woke vaccine Koolaid far right nutjob who just hates the vaccine and all who take it.

What you really mean to say is that you've chosen to join the loons because they hate the left like you - sorry kiddo but that's loony too.

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Part of the new policies in Alberta and Saskatchewan concerns names and pronouns. Why is it an issue if a student asks the teacher to address the student using a particular name and pronoun.

If it's no issue at all then there's no point accommodating them is there.

but of course your question is disingenuous.  The desire to change pronoun is an indication of transgenderism which is almost always paired with gender dysphoria.  That is a serious mental illness that is associated with all kinds of bad things including reportedly an increase in suicidal feelings.

Do you not consider suicide a serious matter? You don't think the parents deserve to know that their children have this mental health issue? Suicide is not reversable as it turns out.

 

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What you really mean to say is that you've chosen to join the loons because they hate the left like you - sorry kiddo but that's loony too.

Any time you have to say "what you really mean is...."  you're doing so because you know that's not what they're saying but you can't argue with what they're saying so you have to make something up and pretend they said it.

Something we've seen YOU do a few different ways.

What  i mean is what i said and here you go people, one of the loons shows up on queue not to have a rational discussion or deal with the actual points raised but to lie about what i said hoping that he'll score virtue points with the other lefties? I guess? I mean - who really knows why these fruitcakes behave like this.

[Michael Hardner]

I know of a teacher who has a student, Edwina, who is dressing very boyish like.  Has asked everyone at school to call them 'Eddy'.  The parents are thought to not be ok with this.  The teachers are following the student's wishes. 

Edited February 8 by Michael Hardner

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You mean you told your parents everything? You didn't have any secrets from your parents?

 

 

You wrote, "I would never accept that my child has a secret with another adultnot in my family."

You make it sound like using another name in school is tantamount to child molesting. We are just talking about a name. Most teenagers tell their parents as little as possible.

In the interest of inconsistancy, the only people teenagers have less respect for than their parents is their teachers. Kids are basically immune to teachers influence. Yes, there are the class sucks, but most students hold their teacher to be objects of ridicule. The only people who can influence teenagers are other teenagers.

My school would tell my parents everything. This is mostly about pre-adolescent kids.

Here is a brief summary, which is hard to find above the din of shrieking transgender activists, page after page only giving their reactions as "shocked, scared, demoralized, hurt..."

- Gender reassignment surgery is to be banned for those 17 and under.

- For those 15 and under, puberty blockers and hormone therapies for the purpose of gender reassignment or affirmation would not be allowed, except for those who have already begun the process.

- Youth who are 16 and 17 can begin hormone therapies if they are deemed mature enough and have parent, physician and psychologist approval.

- In the classroom, parents would have to be notified and give consent for their child to be taught about gender identity, human sexuality and sexual orientation.

- All third-party resource materials used to teach these subjects from kindergarten through Grade 12 must be approved in advance by the education ministry.

- The province will also work with sport organizations to ensure women and girls do not have to compete against transgender female athletes. Transgender athletes would have a chance to compete through expanded coed leagues or other gender-neutral divisions.

I simply do not see anything wrong with this. It still lets people make that decision for themselves once they are at a certain age. They won't need to get permission from their parents.

[OftenWrong]

This creates a reasonable set of rules that we can work with. It protects children from making life-changing decisions that they may regret later, and from political exploitation by transgender activists. As a parent, I approve wholeheartedly.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

the only people teenagers have less respect for than their parents is their teachers. Kids are basically immune to teachers influence. Yes, there are the class sucks, but most students hold their teacher to be objects of ridicule. The only people who can influence teenagers are other teenagers.

Absolute BS. I know a lot of good kids and good families. Almost all kids go through a difficult time in their teens, and every parent prays they grow out of it without causing themselves IRREPARABLE HARM. Fortunately up till now, the vast majority do. Then they may say, "Mom and Dad, I'm sorry for the hell I caused you when I was at that age." and we move on.

What you people are endorsing is to let them harm themselves, "because they are people and have the right to."

They are not. Not the same as adults. Maybe you would like to give them drugs and alcohol too, as they see fit. Maybe you can even provide it to them, secretly from your own door, because, they should be allowed to have secrets. See how far that gets you.