As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do. (or why it's ok for parents to question)

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. You have said that you take PAST behavior into account - i noted that it's more appropriate to take THE CURRENT argument at it's face value. It is NOTHING like what you do.

 

2. Generally i believe that 'virtue signalling' is taking action or making statments who's sole intent is to create an exaggerated appearance of belief in a moral or ethical value for the purpose of impressing others.

 

1. Ok, well if it's just looking at a comment at face value that's fair.  I would also say comparing past and current statements is fair, but you don't think so.  Ok.

2. Who determines the intent of the statement?   It seems like mind reading 

[herbie]

The Reverse Gish Gallop theory says you shouldn't reply point by point because if you make so much as a spelling mistake on one single point, the galloper will claim you lost the entire argument.
Just as Gallopers claim if you fail to reply to so much as one single point they'll also claim you lost the entire argument.

Same as if you rebut every single point perfectly, they'll claim that a specific point was about something entirely different and you're stupid or a leftist or a minority-lover and therefore you again lost the entire argument.

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It literally says they are specifically for at risk kids - which means there's no abuse yet. If there's abuse it's JUST the cops .Sorry kiddo    That was literally a direct citation 

It says "incidents involving imminent risk to children caused by neglect and/or physical or sexual abuse." I can guarantee this does not mean "a kid told us they are afraid they might be abused at some unknown time in the future" you doorknob.

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Neither did i.  But you ARE the one who is prepared to lie and pretend i said anything of the kind.  You talked about how conservative homes weren't supportive.  I said that statement was bigoted and hateful. 

I didn't actually say anything of the sort. You made that up. I didn't talk about political ideology at all until you brought it up. And that wasn't even what you were whining about in the first place when you made the very dumb statement that "it's the lefties who are making the claim that no right wing home is supportive" which is a different thing altogether (and also a fabrication). 

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And it is.  "abuse' didn't come up. Maybe because you were thinking about conservatives you just assumed they're abusive  as well?  LOLOL

"Abuse didn't come up" are you eating lead paint chips again? The entire frigging discussion was about the risk of abuse! You truly are spectacularly dumb!

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But hey - just for fun manybe i missed something.  Point out where i actually said "saying some parents are abusive is a"bigoted statement" :"

Go on - i dare you   No reason for you not to look like a re-tard twice in one day is there?  Lets see you post it   

The guy who constantly invents "facts" ("close to zero kids get abused for being trans") and strawmen like the ones above, then slinks away like the cur he is when asked to provide proof, now demands proof. lol eat me.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

t says "incidents involving imminent risk

Yep. Imminent. Know what that means? Hasn't happened yet     Might happen soon - hasn't happened.

And once again i'm left to explain basic english to an !diot. Wow  you really are like Moonbox

You can look this up - it's no mystery. THat's what they do. they pair with councillors and try to deal with at risk kids before things get out of control.  Once the violence starts - then it's JUST the police.

Sigh. So much stupid in one doggie. Well at least you're very efficient.

6 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

I didn't actually say anything of the sort. You made that up.

Sure you did.  And where's that quote of what i said? Are you saying you made it up? Shocker.

7 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Abuse didn't come up"

Not in that exchange it didn'.t  But hey - all you need to do is post that quote i asked for and prove me wrong  

8 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The guy who constantly invents "facts" ("close to zero kids get abused for being trans") and strawmen like the ones above, then slinks away like the cur he is when asked to provide proof, now demands proof. lol eat me.

ROFLMAO!!!!!  So not only were you lying and you can't provide a quote, but now it's my fault   LOLOL

Way to fight those leftard stereotypes there big guy  

Anyway - i guess that's your way of admitting you were full of shit and a liar without saying it directly - apology accepted   see what a nice guy i  am?  

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yep. Imminent. Know what that means? Hasn't happened yet     Might happen soon - hasn't happened.

And once again i'm left to explain basic english to an !diot. Wow  you really are like Moonbox

You can look this up - it's no mystery. THat's what they do. they pair with councillors and try to deal with at risk kids before things get out of control.  Once the violence starts - then it's JUST the police.

Sigh. So much stupid in one doggie. Well at least you're very efficient.

Imminent means "about to happen" not "could possibly happen in some undetermined time frame." Your illiteracy is only exceeded by your unearned confidence in your own diminished capacity.

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Sure you did. 

 

Nope; didn't say it and you can't prove I did because you're a liar with an inflated sense of self and a victimhood complex.

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And where's that quote of what i said? Are you saying you made it up? Shocker.

No no you literally said it in one of the posts I quoted.

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Not in that exchange it didn'.t  But hey - all you need to do is post that quote i asked for and prove me wrong  \

It was literally the entire point of the exchange dummy.

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ROFLMAO!!!!!  So not only were you lying and you can't provide a quote, but now it's my fault   LOLOL

Way to fight those leftard stereotypes there big guy  

Anyway - i guess that's your way of admitting you were full of shit and a liar without saying it directly - apology accepted   see what a nice guy i  am?  

 

You should definitely post more emojis to show how Not Mad you are.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Imminent means "about to happen" 

So -  hasn't happened. 

Remember when you said that they won't go out unless something happened? And i said 'sure they do every day", and you said "ThErE'S No PROOOOOF of THAT!!!!  REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

 Yeah. As proven and you've just agreed, they go out before something has happened. IF there are concerns something is going to happen, they go.

And that's exactly what i said - if there's fear for the child's safety in a home then call them and they will go.  And they do. That's the whole point of having a team like that.

Yeash.  That was the most pathetic showing i've seen on this board since moonbeam said that 100 percent - 50 percent doesn't equal 50 percent   Pathetic.

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No no you literally said it in one of the posts I quoted

So i never said it and you can't quote it.  Gotacha.

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

It was literally the entire point of the exchange dummy.

Nope, i was very clear about what i was talking about in that exchange - i said depriving them of a supportive environment, not a word about violence, You replied to it saying they're not supportive and i said you were a bigot and hatefilled - which is true.

Swing and a miss kiddo   the whole board can read it and see   Which is why you can't post a quote  

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

So -  hasn't happened. 

Remember when you said that they won't go out unless something happened? And i said 'sure they do every day", and you said "ThErE'S No PROOOOOF of THAT!!!!  REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

 Yeah. As proven and you've just agreed, they go out before something has happened. IF there are concerns something is going to happen, they go.

And that's exactly what i said - if there's fear for the child's safety in a home then call them and they will go.  And they do. That's the whole point of having a team like that.

Imminent. Google it.

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So i never said it and you can't quote it.  Gotacha.

No I quoted it already.

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Nope, i was very clear about what i was talking about in that exchange - i said depriving them of a supportive environment, not a word about violence, You replied to it saying they're not supportive and i said you were a bigot and hatefilled - which is true.

Now you're just babbling. V. funny to see you, a deeply mentally ill individual, try to process this all in real time. I wonder if it will click.

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Swing and a miss kiddo   the whole board can read it and see   Which is why you can't post a quote   

It was in your post I quoted, what are you talking about?

[Perspektiv]

On 2/8/2024 at 3:01 PM, Black Dog said:

You're ducking the question. What are the specific risks of not telling parents about their kids' gender identity when the kids don't want them to know?

Its not about risk, its about the parents right to know. Its about the fact that the teacher isn't in a position to make decisions on one's children's gender identity. Its highly inappropriate, in my opinion.

On 2/8/2024 at 3:01 PM, Black Dog said:

What are the specific risks of not telling parents about their kids' gender identity when the kids don't want them to know?

Personally, it is in my opinion, very inappropriate to take this type of a decision on a child's life as a teacher and keep it as your "secret". It should be escalated to people trained to deal with it.

I feel this is something the parents have a right to know. They are the primary caregivers of the children. The primary providers. They literally are responsible for their children, and have been since birth.

This is major, and its not the teacher's job to assume a parent wouldn't be supportive of their child, or feel they are protecting them.

I find teachers should stay in their lane. You're paid to teach. Leave the counseling, to counselors, the doctoring, to doctors, and the parenting--to parents.

[Perspektiv]

I see a situation where a parent isn't made aware of a child's gender change, so continues to use their birth pronouns.

Teacher takes it upon themselves to keep this secret, fearing for the child's safety and doing this to protect the child.

The child starts to transition, but keeps it from their parents. The teacher still refuses to divulge to anyone, who could help the child.

The parents, still literally oblivious to the growing anxieties in their child, continue to call them by their birth pronouns.

The kid can't take it anymore, and attempts to commit suicide.

The parents only then, find out about the child's identity, and are furious they weren't allowed to be there in their child's darkest moments.

Sounds crazy? Impossible? The above just doesn't happen?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

 Sounds crazy? Impossible? The above just doesn't happen?

What you didn't talk about is the medical process that the student is going through.

And there's a counter situation where the parent wants to help the child transition, and they can't until puberty has started.

I do think that a teacher has a role in this scenario that you laid out, but it can be a grey area.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I do think that a teacher has a role in this scenario that you laid out, but it can be a grey area.

The role should be directing the student to where they can get help--nowhere should they take the initiative in administering it.

That is an obtuse abuse of the position they are in.

Many parents would be livid in being kept out of their children questioning their gender. Worse even, assisting them being fully clueless as to what to do to help the child.

Teachers can tell parents about a child's performance, behavior, but are now to keep secrets from parents they are supposed to earn trust from?

Parents send kids to school, and that on its own is providing the school you send them to blind trust they will educate your child.

Leave caring for the child to the parents, and specialists.

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

1. The role should be directing the student to where they can get help--nowhere should they take the initiative in administering it.

2. That is an obtuse abuse of the position they are in.

3.....are now to keep secrets from parents they are supposed to earn trust from?

4. Leave caring for the child to the parents, and specialists.

 

1. That's what I said in my last post. Those roles are presumably taken in conjunction with the student's doctor. Yes?

2. Perhaps, but it's not clear in the scenario what the teacher actually knew about or was involved in.  

3. Not sure if they are mandated to do so in many jurisdictions. I was familiar with a scenario in Toronto where the teacher and the education community figure out if they need to be involved , using common sense.

4. I should hope teachers also care for the child.

 

[Perspektiv]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I should hope teachers also care for the child.

While teaching them, absolutely.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

using common sense.

That's a dangerous word, entrusted to anyone with woke ideologies being pushed onto them.

[Michael Hardner]

42 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. While teaching them, absolutely.

2. That's a dangerous word, entrusted to anyone with woke ideologies being pushed onto them.

1. Yes.
2. Meaning, at this point, any professional in public life - right ?  I work in a corporate setting and the woke ideology, as I'm sure you would call it, is 100% prevalent.  

You either trust the professional or you don't, and there are plusses/minuses to both approaches.  A hybrid probably works best, ie. policies for specific aspects of the job but don't micromanage everything they do.

Edited February 11 by Michael Hardner

[CdnFox]

12 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Imminent. Google it.

Did - google says you're wrong

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No I quoted it already.

We get it - you can't quote it  so lie instead.  Seems to be how you operate.

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Now you're just babbling. V. funny to see you, a deeply mentally ill individual, try to process this all in real time. I wonder if it will click.

LOL - do you realize you become more and more desperate the more you realize you've got no defense?  LOL -  So this is basically you saying you were wrong but you're angry that you're wrong    Well fair enough.

Where's my quote? Still can't find one'?  LOL - poor little guy.  Nap and a cookie time for you i think  

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Meaning, at this point, any professional in public life - right ?

Nope. No woke ideologies where I work. Codes of conduct, professionalism, HR which is standard. 

But no virtue signaling. I wouldn't work around people like this, as would expect to get scolded for celebrating Canada day.

Workplaces should operate under rules, but allowing staff room to grow.

Schools should operate under teaching students, and not extending beyond that responsibility. 

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Did - google says you're wrong

We get it - you can't quote it  so lie instead.  Seems to be how you operate.

LOL - do you realize you become more and more desperate the more you realize you've got no defense?  LOL -  So this is basically you saying you were wrong but you're angry that you're wrong    Well fair enough.

Where's my quote? Still can't find one'?  LOL - poor little guy.  Nap and a cookie time for you i think  

I'm literally playing your game here. 

Here's a few things you've invented in this thread:

• the claim that nearly zero trans kids get abused by their parents when they come out
• that I said conservative homes weren't supportive
• that "it's the lefties who are making the claim that no right wing home is supportive." 

And then there's the time in another thread where you claimed I said any mass shooter with that if someone happens to be right wing in their politics and they kill someone it is because of their beliefs and failed to provide any quote for that. 

In short: it's clear you have an extensive and documented history of making baseless claims and fabrications and you're too stupid to see I was trolling you by doing the same to you and you fell for it like the rube you are. 

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Nope. No woke ideologies where I work. Codes of conduct, professionalism, HR which is standard. 

But no virtue signaling. I wouldn't work around people like this, as would expect to get scolded for celebrating Canada day.

Workplaces should operate under rules, but allowing staff room to grow.

Schools should operate under teaching students, and not extending beyond that responsibility. 

I asked someone for a definition of virtue signaling, and they said it's moralizing with a vain intent, to paraphrase.  My issue is that determining intent is a guess.

My intuition is the more regulatory the enterprise operates under, the more precautions against lawsuits and bad publicity. For example, I'm in banking.

Edited February 11 by Michael Hardner

[Black Dog]

11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Its not about risk, its about the parents right to know. Its about the fact that the teacher isn't in a position to make decisions on one's children's gender identity. Its highly inappropriate, in my opinion. 

Personally, it is in my opinion, very inappropriate to take this type of a decision on a child's life as a teacher and keep it as your "secret". It should be escalated to people trained to deal with it.

The teacher isn't making any decisions about kid's gender identities in this scenario.  It's the child's decision to tell the teacher and the child's decision to request their parents not be told.

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I feel this is something the parents have a right to know. They are the primary caregivers of the children. The primary providers. They literally are responsible for their children, and have been since birth.

This is major, and its not the teacher's job to assume a parent wouldn't be supportive of their child, or feel they are protecting them.

I find teachers should stay in their lane. You're paid to teach. Leave the counseling, to counselors, the doctoring, to doctors, and the parenting--to parents.

 

So if a kid says "I'm trans but if my parents find out they will kick me out of the house or worse" you feel the teacher should inform the parents anyway?

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

 It's the child's decision to tell the teacher and the child's decision to request their parents not be told.

Or, maybe the most mundane and therefore expected scenario.. nobody says anything at all.  The student uses a short form that makes sense... but might lead one to speculate... and nothing happens in the public space.

[herbie]

But those EIGHT kids... they did something some people don't like and it wasn't even against the law ! We must have a law so we can punish those EIGHT PEOPLE to protect the rest of us or soon it will be your kid.... AAUUGGGHHH EMERGENCY DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER

Amazing how a loudmouthed obstinate politician can build a mountain without even having a mole hill to start with.

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

I'm literally playing your game here. 

No, you literally lied and are trying to deflect.  Which seems to be one of your 2 or 3 debate techiques. God forbid you go with honesty.

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Here's a few things you've invented in this thread:

• the claim that nearly zero trans kids get abused by their parents when they come out
• that I said conservative homes weren't supportive
• that "it's the lefties who are making the claim that no right wing home is supportive." 

 

Sorry kid - the second two are distortions of what i said   the first one is a simple fact but hey - prove me wrong

ANd you still couldn't produce the original quote i asked for so we've well established you lie.

And when you did ask for proof i provided it - and then you went on for 6 posts trying to pretend that words like 'imminent' ACTUALLY mean 'already happened'. Which it doesn't

Dude - every single post you look more and more like a desperate loser who's trying to blame his lack of knowledge and severe lack of intellect on other people.

The kids are fine, if there's genuine concerns about the child's safety (not just 'conservatives r bad m'kay) then alert the authorities and deal with it.  But the parents need to know. If the schools want to help provide education or the like to the parents or involve themselves in the process of how the parents are told fine.

Just out of curiousity  - why is it that the left feels the need to lie rather than simply tell the truth and deal with the facts as they are? The leftist posters here are an example, while a small minority are mostly truthfull most like yourself prefer lies and it makes no sense.

Which is why you can't post the quote i asked for  

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, herbie said:

But those EIGHT kids... they did something some people don't like and it wasn't even against the law ! We must have a law so we can punish those EIGHT PEOPLE to protect the rest of us or soon it will be your kid.... AAUUGGGHHH EMERGENCY DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER

Amazing how a loudmouthed obstinate politician can build a mountain without even having a mole hill to start with.

Hey - if it saves just one life...  remember when the left insisted that was a reasonable excuse to spend billions on a gun registry ? 

In any case if you're saying it's no big deal and nobody will be impacted then fine, what's the fuss?

[Perspektiv]

5 hours ago, Black Dog said:

So if a kid says "I'm trans but if my parents find out they will kick me out of the house or worse" you feel the teacher should inform the parents anyway?

It has no business remaining the teachers secret.

This should be escalated. The teacher is out of their capabilities in dealing with this, nor giving advice to the kid.

If a child of mine committed suicide because I was oblivious to what they were dealing with because they were petrified of telling me because how proud of them I am for being my son/daughter (but unaware they felt of the opposite gender). 

I would sue the living daylights out of that school. The teacher, would call all international media corporations and would bury all those responsible for this in the mud.

It's insanely inappropriate, and in finding out the practice would simply move my kid schools.

Any supportive parent worth their weight would want to know and would feel the schools should butt out and do what they are supposed to do. Teach.

Keep the activism for the child when they reach university. 

[Perspektiv]

Its like a teacher I had who felt I was being beaten as a child. 

Its none of their business. Escalate it to people who know what to do. Stick to teaching and leave the counseling to the professionals.

Child care services, to child care service people.

Boggles my mind, some school boards are feeling almost entitlement to holding such secrets from parents, and wonder why so many furious parents are demanding schools to leave their kids alone.

Its not transphobia. It's boundaries. There are lanes on streets for a reason.

Literally, all those surrounding the child, have their responsibilities in their name..

Parent, teacher...stay in your lane.