Ban Pro-Palestinian Demonstrations

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Palestinians can protest.  

The problem is their genocidal dog-whistling.

Everyone on earth with an IQ above 'liberal' knows that when muslims say "from the river to the sea" they mean Jews wiped off the map, but they pretend it just means that they want everyone to sing Kumbaya together in one jolly little country known as "Palestine".

It's like if a bunch of people with shaved heads waving swastikas were chanting "3rd Reich nirvana for you and me". The "you and me" wouldn't include anyone with skin darker than a paper bag, or anyone with the wrong religion, but they could pretend that they meant everyone. 

You can't assume the obvious truth about what Palestinians mean, you always have to pretend that they're from "The religion of peace."

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The problem is their genocidal dog-whistling.

Everyone on earth with an IQ above 'liberal' knows that when muslims say "from the river to the sea" they mean Jews wiped off the map, but they pretend it just means that they want everyone to sing Kumbaya together in one jolly little country known as "Palestine".

It's like if a bunch of people with shaved heads waving swastikas were chanting "3rd Reich nirvana for you and me". The "you and me" wouldn't include anyone with skin darker than a paper bag, or anyone with the wrong religion, but they could pretend that they meant everyone. 

You can't assume the obvious truth about what Palestinians mean, you always have to pretend that they're from "The religion of peace."

Well somehow these groups have to find a way to get along.  I do think some cultures are more destructive than others.  There are Palestinians in Jerusalem living well.  In the West Bank has gotten better too.  Gazans keep betting on the same bad horse.  It was always absurd to say that Jews don’t belong in Israel.  Between Palestinians and Jews, I’d think the Jews are the more Indigenous group, but that kind of pure blood original race type rhetoric is the whole problem.  It’s the Indigenous versus settler colonial nonsense that’s keeping these groups from functioning in harmony.in a pluralistic multicultural society.  For all the problems we have in the West, our social fabric in Canada is more harmonious than many countries.  It’s when people refuse to look outside their circle to find common values that tensions arise.  I think the melting pot may be a better solution than the cultural mosaic, but new and old North Americans generally integrate quite well.  

Edited January 11 by Zeitgeist

[marcus]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The problem is their genocidal dog-whistling.

Everyone on earth with an IQ above 'liberal' knows that when muslims say "from the river to the sea" they mean Jews wiped off the map, but they pretend it just means that they want everyone to sing Kumbaya together in one jolly little country known as "Palestine".

It's like if a bunch of people with shaved heads waving swastikas were chanting "3rd Reich nirvana for you and me". The "you and me" wouldn't include anyone with skin darker than a paper bag, or anyone with the wrong religion, but they could pretend that they meant everyone. 

You can't assume the obvious truth about what Palestinians mean, you always have to pretend that they're from "The religion of peace."

Have you ever looked at Likud's charter?

You should.

Let me know if you're okay with it, and whether you think they are genocidal.

BUT! Don't let the 25,000+ civilians killed, and 3/4 of Gazans displaced to distract you from your opinion!

The Likud party has vowed to never allow a Palestinian state. They have also vowed to establish a greater Israel:

between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

 

Edited January 11 by marcus

[marcus]

"From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free."

Is this a genocidal call for the eradication of Jews?

I suppose it can, based on intention and definition.

Many I have spoken to, here in Canada, who are calling for a ceasefire and the liberation of Palestinians who have lived under the brutal occupation have this view point:

In 2021, the Palestinian-American writer Yousef Munayyer argued that those who saw genocidal ambition in the phrase, or indeed an unambiguous desire for the destruction of Israel, did so due to their own Islamophobia.

It was instead, he argued, merely a way to express a desire for a state in which “Palestinians can live in their homeland as free and equal citizens, neither dominated by others nor dominating them”.

Ref: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine

[BeaverFever]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:21 PM, DUI_Offender said:

I am sick and tired of seeing these people marching everywhere. Streets, malls, highways, etc. They bring their wars to our country, and disrupt our quality of life. Recently they are now resorting to blocking highway traffic, and harassing people in malls and businesses.  Enough is enough.

We need to give the Police the right to use force against these people. They can only be dealt with by force, since that is all they know. Then we can initiate deportation hearings.. They are getting on everyone's nerves.  They do not belong in this country.

Most of the people marching are doing it to be "cool" as it's the latest "in" thing to do. They have no understanding of the conflict. Three years ago they marched for Black Lives Matter.  This is their "protest of the month."  We need to ban Palestinians from coming into Canada. They are a menace to society, and are not compatible with our culture. 

Sorry in a democracy you can’t arrest or deport people or direct police to “use force” against people simply for protesting causes you don’t support or “getting on people’s nerves”. Protesting is a central feature of democracy if people were only allowed to protest causes that are already widely supported there would be no need to protest in the first place. There are already ample laws in place to deal with protesters who go too far  

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms also explicitly states you can’t ban people from entering Canada or otherwise discriminate against them based on based on “race, national or ethnic origin”  and your statement that Palestinian people as opposed to protesters are a menace to society makes you sound like a bigot. 

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

The Likud party has vowed to never allow a Palestinian state.

There is a simple reason for that.  It is the fact that nobody is ever going to change the Palestinian's mind, which is the radical Islamist mind, heavily influenced and funded by Iran and its proxies.  That mind is set on the elimination of the state of Israel and all Jews.  There is no such thing as peace or compromise on that in their mind because Allah says so.  If you can convince Allah to change their thinking, you might have a chance.

Edited January 11 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, marcus said:

BUT! Don't let the 25,000+ civilians killed, and 3/4 of Gazans displaced to distract you from your opinion!

Show me anywhere that says 25,000 CIVILIANS killed.

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, marcus said:

"From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free."

Is this a genocidal call for the eradication of Jews?

It certainly is today.

And that's the biggest barrier to peace.  IF hamas and gaza laid down their arms today, within a short time they'd have their own nation.

IF israel laid down its arms today - it would have a second genocide.

How do you get peace in that situation other than one side completely defeating and subjugating the other.

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, marcus said:

Have you ever looked at Likud's charter?

You should.

Let me know if you're okay with it, and whether you think they are genocidal.

BUT! Don't let the 25,000+ civilians killed, and 3/4 of Gazans displaced to distract you from your opinion!

1. 25,000 dead was a light day when Pakistan was partitioned from India.
2. From Israel's partition until now, 75 years later, they've only killed about 20,000 civilians, almost all of them recently, and only because Hamas chose to use their own people as meat shields. 
3. Muslims were massacring Jews all the time, all over the ME before Israel was created. Not just for a hundred years or so... centuries. 
4. "Why?", you ask... "Were they afraid of the Jews for some reason?"
5. No, the Jews just had tiny populations compared with the muslims surrounding them. The muslims had nothing to fear from the Jews at all. They just did it out of religious bigotry. 

Quote

The Likud party has vowed to never allow a Palestinian state. They have also vowed to establish a greater Israel:

Allowing Gaza to be there was obviously a huge mistake, right?

After 15,000 bombs were launched at Israeli citizens we all know better now. 

Quote

between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

Israeli sovereignty over 1% of the ME... Oooh, that's bad. Muslims need all 100.00%, right, Marcus? 

Do you know Jews and Christians lived under Ottoman rule Marcus? 

Don't believe the Kumbaya BS you hear from muslims. It was great for them because everyone else was forced to grovel. FYI that was real religious bigotry, codified into blatantly discriminatory laws. 

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, marcus said:

Have you ever looked at Likud's charter?

You should.

Let me know if you're okay with it, and whether you think they are genocidal.

BUT! Don't let the 25,000+ civilians killed, and 3/4 of Gazans displaced to distract you from your opinion!

The Likud party has vowed to never allow a Palestinian state. They have also vowed to establish a greater Israel:

between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

 

Would Israel ever launch an intentional savage mass murder of civilians, including rape and dismemberment? No self-respecting country wouldn’t try to root out the terrorists behind this.   Unfortunately there isn’t moral equivalence here.  Yes, Israel is far more powerful militarily and can actually do quite a bit of rooting out. Hamas knew this. What Hamas did works against the interests of Gazans and they must not be allowed to be in power in Gaza.   The security risk is too high.  Without Hamas Gaza could have a much better future, but there has to be reasonableness and good faith for all involved.  

Edited January 11 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

There is a simple reason for that.  It is the fact that nobody is ever going to change the Palestinian's mind, which is the radical Islamist mind, heavily influenced and funded by Iran and its proxies.

There are plenty of secular Palestinians you know. Hamas doesn't even enjoy majority support.

Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering

Palestinians overwhelmingly hold Israel responsible for the death and destruction, but criticism of the militant group is spreading

The overwhelming majority of Palestinians blame Israel for the death, destruction and dislocation caused by the war. Yet many Gazans say that Hamas is also responsible for the suffering, and that those voices are getting louder.

A survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, a Ramallah-based think tank, found that one in five Gazans polled blamed Hamas for their suffering in the war. The survey, completed in early December, also found that support for Hamas, which has ruled the enclave with an iron fist for years, had increased slightly since Oct. 7, with 42% of respondents choosing it over other Palestinian parties.
In the West Bank, which is far from the fighting in Gaza, by contrast, support for Hamas more than tripled between September and early December, when 44% of respondents said they backed the group, according to the survey.
“Gaza, which usually gives Hamas greater support, is showing more criticism of Hamas than the West Bank. There is more questioning of the decision to go to war,” said Khalil Shikaki, director of the think tank and a professor of political science based in Ramallah.  
Hamas’s popularity among Gazans got a boost in the immediate aftermath of the Oct. 7 incursions into Israeli territory, with many Palestinians seeing the attacks as a response to what they decry as mistreatment by Israel. The survey also found that most respondents were unaware of the scale of the killings and other violence committed by Hamas militants during the attacks.

https://archive.ph/AuDjR#selection-737.0-771.375

Read this again;

The survey also found that most respondents were unaware of the scale of the killings and other violence committed by Hamas militants during the attacks.

A lot more of the problem surrounding Hamas being a proxy could and should be remedied by getting rid of its patron and source of funding and weapons, the regime running Iran. That isn't happening because Israel and its allies lack the courage of their convictions.

Edited January 11 by eyeball

[eyeball]

I think just about everyone in the universe can relate to this;

The people of Gaza are disillusioned not only with Hamas but with the entire Palestinian leadership.

 

The argument that the entire population of Gaza can be held responsible for Hamas’s actions is quickly discredited when one looks at the facts. Arab Barometer, a research network where we serve as co-principal investigators, conducted a survey in Gaza and the West Bank days before the Israel-Hamas war broke out. The findings, published here for the first time, reveal that rather than supporting Hamas, the vast majority of Gazans have been frustrated with the armed group’s ineffective governance as they endure extreme economic hardship. Most Gazans do not align themselves with Hamas’s ideology, either. Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to destroy the Israeli state, the majority of survey respondents favored a two-state solution with an independent Palestine and Israel existing side by side.

https://archive.ph/3nOuh#selection-1503.0-1507.492

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

There are plenty of secular Palestinians you know. Hamas doesn't even enjoy majority support.

Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering

Palestinians overwhelmingly hold Israel responsible for the death and destruction, but criticism of the militant group is spreading

The overwhelming majority of Palestinians blame Israel for the death, destruction and dislocation caused by the war. Yet many Gazans say that Hamas is also responsible for the suffering, and that those voices are getting louder.

A survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, a Ramallah-based think tank, found that one in five Gazans polled blamed Hamas for their suffering in the war. The survey, completed in early December, also found that support for Hamas, which has ruled the enclave with an iron fist for years, had increased slightly since Oct. 7, with 42% of respondents choosing it over other Palestinian parties.
In the West Bank, which is far from the fighting in Gaza, by contrast, support for Hamas more than tripled between September and early December, when 44% of respondents said they backed the group, according to the survey.
“Gaza, which usually gives Hamas greater support, is showing more criticism of Hamas than the West Bank. There is more questioning of the decision to go to war,” said Khalil Shikaki, director of the think tank and a professor of political science based in Ramallah.  
Hamas’s popularity among Gazans got a boost in the immediate aftermath of the Oct. 7 incursions into Israeli territory, with many Palestinians seeing the attacks as a response to what they decry as mistreatment by Israel. The survey also found that most respondents were unaware of the scale of the killings and other violence committed by Hamas militants during the attacks.

https://archive.ph/AuDjR#selection-737.0-771.375

Read this again;

The survey also found that most respondents were unaware of the scale of the killings and other violence committed by Hamas militants during the attacks.

A lot more of the problem surrounding Hamas being a proxy could and should be remedied by getting rid of its patron and source of funding and weapons, the regime running Iran. That isn't happening because Israel and its allies lack the courage of their convictions.

Your own cite says that the majority blame israel not hamas.  Soooo - it would seem that hamas DOES enjoy a majority of support

[marcus]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

There is a simple reason for that.  It is the fact that nobody is ever going to change the Palestinian's mind, which is the radical Islamist mind, heavily influenced and funded by Iran and its proxies.  That mind is set on the elimination of the state of Israel and all Jews.  There is no such thing as peace or compromise on that in their mind because Allah says so.  If you can convince Allah to change their thinking, you might have a chance.

You have been duped to believe that this is about religion.

Then you are asked to pick between two religions.

When in reality, this is nothing more than colonialism.

Did you know that the father of Zionism originally looked at Kenya and Uganda as a destination for a Jewish State?

Reason? Because those were countries that were under the control of the British.

Did you know that in 1899, a fund called The Jewish Colonial Trust was created to settle Palestine?

You probably didn't.

Ref

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Would Israel ever launch an intentional savage mass murder of civilians, 

Eh?

Lol.

[Zeitgeist]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:02 AM, marcus said:

You have been duped to believe that this is about religion.

Then you are asked to pick between two religions.

When in reality, this is nothing more than colonialism.

Did you know that the father of Zionism originally looked at Kenya and Uganda as a destination for a Jewish State?

Reason? Because those were countries that were under the control of the British.

Did you know that in 1899, a fund called The Jewish Colonial Trust was created to settle Palestine?

You probably didn't.

Ref

Eh?

Lol.

The Israelis aren’t trying to kill innocent people.  Hamas intended to kill innocent people.