The shocking state of the Canadian military

[blackbird]

This video explains it well.   The attrition rate  is a major concern and the inability of the military to find new recruits.  The major problem is our government's non support of the Canadian Forces and woke agenda that is destroying the military.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

woke agenda

What is a woke agenda?

[Army Guy]

Majority of Canada does not want a military, nor does it want the people that serve within it...today our men and women are leaving in droves....release rates are the higher than the great FRP, force reduction plan...the Chretien liberals came up with...where losses are well over 16 K short...those where numbers given last year, they only have grown since then...

I mean we can not even treat our veterans with any real respect, we discard them like useless garbage, force them into court to get benefits that every other Canadian is entitled to....here is your hand shake good luck with your PTSD, there is the door....

We expect them to perform miracle's when we send them over seas, with equipment older than their parents... Ya fills my heart up with pride as well... I feel sorry for the new generations, i truly do.... I spent hours trying to convince my son/ daughter not to join... both of them struggle with their decisions, with limited money to train, they are often left begging for something to do, ... We as a nation don't deserve there commitment, not the way we treat them, and our military...

Most Canadians have no idea what their military provides for them every hour of every day or how that commitment translated into our own foreign policy, and how it is implemented ...nor do they care... 

Many vets such as myself feel betrayed by our nation, and it's people...who only has time for it's soldiers when the nation is in crises...Ice storms, floods, fires...

Conservatives are always hopeful... they will fix everything PP has made statements which in reality or in my experience i don't know how he is going to fix the military when there is so many things that need to get fixed, and only so much funding to go around...and some little room left in the old debt closet...So i don't see things getting fixed anytime soon...but there is always hope...but even that is in short supply...

What is woke agenda....well we are in the operating room, our heart has stopped, people are running around looking for a crash cart... and the government is worried about things like tattoos, face jewelry, growing your hair out in any color, being more inclusive, filling our the diversity chart to ensure everyone is represented in all ranks...which is important to all Canadians but lets not forget what their primary job is...

closing with our enemies and destroying them...Not sure if you can even say that today....anyways we have the military that we want and more importantly we have the military we deserve....

want to change that, make it "your" priority some how...put it on the ballad...if you don't it only gets worse from here...

 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

When a problem worsens for decades under PMs of various temperaments and political persuasions, one has to look beyond politics for causes. We may need a catastrophe to wake us up. 

[Army Guy]

33 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

When a problem worsens for decades under PMs of various temperaments and political persuasions, one has to look beyond politics for causes. We may need a catastrophe to wake us up. 

I used to say the same thing...but Canadians are for the most part finger pointers, they will look are the nearest scape goat what ever government is in power and try to hold it accountable, when the guilty pricks are the Canadian people...with or with out our support nothing gets done in this country without the peoples agreement...

we the people have grown use to just shrugging our shoulders and doing nothing, letting the government do what ever it wants... we are starting to come around with help from immigrants, like the school thing and the parents protest or the Palestinian protests...people are taking to the streets to let the government know this is what we care about....

besides a catastrophe will come at a great loss of life, be it our soldiers, becasue they will go where ever we send them regardless...or it will come at home like some earth quake, where our military will be over come and shit will hit the fan, and people will die from the lack of care ...not becasue of the lack of will on our military part but the lack of resources this nation gave them...are we not smart enough to see that could be an outcome...do we really need to wait that long...

[herbie]

Woke is a word used by sociopaths to describe anything that requires empathy.
Giving a shit about the person beside you is alien to them.

Besides that there's nothing shocking about our military. Been that way for decades.

 

[Perspektiv]

10 minutes ago, herbie said:

Woke is a word used by sociopaths to describe anything that requires empathy.

I worked with a woke person before.

She berated me after I laughed about a racial joke an employee made about my wife. My wife is Asian.

She was offended on my wife's behalf (a very key far left woke liberal tendency--getting offended on your behalf), unaware my wife has a sense of humor. I wouldn't have married someone without one.

She was white, but felt the need to "educate" me about racism. All sentences ending with a condescending high inflection.

How silence was acceptance of racism, like I should be ashamed of not fighting every slight or microaggression as if you could end racism by force. Yet unable to discern between her tolerance for such humor and mine as potentially being different, nor the intent behind the humor being key. Nuances she was clueless towards. I knew debate was a waste of time so I just agreed with everything she said.

Shame only makes people do it behind your back.

I then asked her if she had ever experienced racism (seeing she wasn't going to stop):

"No I have not". I grin and act surprised.

It didn't hit her she was lecturing a black person on how to deal with something she had never experienced. Something I had dealt with my entire life. No in depth knowledge other than self help book quotes.

This is wokeness in today's world.

Has nothing to do with empathy.

Type of people who want you to constantly feel shame for being a Canadian for what the country did in the past.

Heck, we should be shamed of our national anthem. How dare we call this our country. Its stolen land. 

To feel shame for being white. 

To be ashamed for being male. 

A lot of these woke causes demand shame and reflection, but amount to nothing done. 

Horrible policies that typically don't look into data. Just shame and vitriol for dissenting opinions.

The border fiasco in the US. Woke ideology would shame anyone wanting better border control, but deliberately deny the data.

Once the floodgates open and they are faced with the problem, now their "sanctuary states" no longer can accept this to continue.

They coin terms like TERF, to shame and silence dissent.

This is about control. White savior complexes and narssisism.

Same person would berate another for using plastic straws, yet throw garbage bags out which contain just as much, if not more plastic.

Worse even, would think lesser of those who didn't, even though 95% of plastic waste makes it to landfill.

Last time I checked, empathy was about understanding the feelings of another. Not feeling on their behalf.

[herbie]

There are some extremes in every group of people.

I've been told East Indian jokes by East Indian people and laughed with them. They're self deprecating at worst. As well as Native jokes from native people. Heard many from "white" people that were insulting and disgusting.

I will repeat those over beers with "insert your choice of race" instead of a specific derogatory name. Some people have absolutely no sense of humour at all and think they're woke others like a friend of mine who insists on doing every 'redneck' thing and joke cuz he thinks its funny.

As my Italian relatives joke "If a Russian is a cosmonaut, what do you call an Italian astronaut? A specimen."

edit: Sometime I use 'Lutonians' in those jokes, Like Stan and Josh Schmenge from the old 2nd City TV sketches

Edited November 22, 2023 by herbie

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Majority of Canada does not want a military, nor does it want the people that serve within it.

I understand the bitterness. But I disagree. They simply vote for their own economic reasons. The other stuff they care about, be it the military, policing, immigration, healthcare, it's important to them. But all of them take second place to what they think will be best for them economically.

 

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

..today our men and women are leaving in droves....release rates are the higher than the great FRP, force reduction plan...the Chretien liberals came up with...where losses are well over 16 K short...those where numbers given last year, they only have grown since then...

Of course they are. The government doesn't respect them. Their equipment is crap, both of which damages pride, and esprit de corps. And a lot of the rules and regs are rigid holdovers from another time. This all dissuades newcomers from joining (along with a recruitment and training system that takes second place for incompetence only to procurement). And this puts extra pressure on those there because the generals can't bear to tell the politicians they can't do it anymore so have people doing extra work (without pay), with extra pressure, and little in the way of thanks.

 

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Conservatives are always hopeful... they will fix everything PP has made statements which in reality or in my experience i don't know how he is going to fix the military when there is so many things that need to get fixed, and only so much funding to go around..

If it's made a priority it can be fixed. I don't know if Poilivre will do enough for the military, - or anything, for that matter. I know the conservative base wants him to. There will certainly be more pressure on him to than there is on Trudeau or Singh from their base. But if Poilievre doesn't care and just figures "Who else are they gonna vote for if military preparedness is important to them?" then I guess we'll have to wait for a crisis to hit Canadians in the face to move that priority right up.

Like another Oka. Only this time the military can't handle it.

 

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Woke is a word used by sociopaths to describe anything that requires empathy.
Giving a shit about the person beside you is alien to them.

Woke is a term for people who care about style over substance, who care about how things look, not how they are, who say they care about justice, but don't, who are rabidly intolerant, don't believe in freedom - except their own - and absolutely demand the pretense of diversity and inclusiveness without actual diversity or inclusiveness and are more than willing to sacrifice equality in the name of equity. They're zealots and they hate more deeply than anyone but the far, far right, the real nazis you guys are always on about as if there are hordes of them but in reality couldn't fill a rural diner on a sunny Sunday.

[herbie]

I for once tend to agree with Groot. Most of us don't want or see the need for much of an armed forces. And the people who did serve we don't like are those who think peacekeeping was a lesser function, glory seekers, and those that think because they did serve they're somehow more of a Canadian than ones that didn't.

[Perspektiv]

7 hours ago, herbie said:

There are some extremes in every group of people.

This seems to be becoming the accepted norm.

IE comedian Matt Rife makes a joke about a woman with a black eye, serving him food at the restaurant.

Context. He makes it clear he is putting out a feeler joke. You test the crowd. It was roaring with laughter, so he knew he could do his full set, which is basically mostly dark jokes. Even far darker ones.

Of course, the far woke left couldn't take the joke, and demanded an apology. All news outlets I saw the joke on, only put the offensive part of the joke out, and kept the context which actually made the joke funny, out. The shaming and pressure was on.

He put a "apology" link to one on his website, and in Matt Rife fashion which linked to special needs helmets. 

Finishing it off with something around the lines of, if you find my jokes offensive--fix yourself.

Life's tough. Get a sense of humor, essentially.

The backlash and moral equivalency from this rather large "exception" within the woke left, was withering.

Some were even more offended by the ableism jokes to wash down the misogyny jokes.

Of course, many supported humor, as long as one could tell the difference between a joke and something of poor taste. Be funny, just don't offend me, essentially.

So essentially, he should reflect, feel shame and come back with an inoffensive set. There's that shame word again.

What happened to, you don't like the jokes, don't attend or watch the special?

You know his best weapon is his sarcastic humor. So just *maybe* offensive and sarcastic jokes may be present in the set.

They are the loudest demographic of this group.

Black people who loot, steal, demand welfare money and kill each other are a minute demographic in my community. 

I am nothing like them, so will spare no effort in denouncing their behavior.

I was told I was against my own people by some peers. 

No, I love black people. Black culture.

I can't stand the ignorant type of black person who feels the world owes them something.

The fact nobody calls out these people who state they are in the minority, speaks volumes.

[Queenmandy85]

Procurement for a conventional war in Europe such as the F-35, is not practical, in my opinion. We are preparing for a conventional war with Russia. Russian military doctrine is the same as it was in the USSR. It is simple. Open up with a massive air and artillery bombardment. Russian strategic planning does not differentiate between conventional and nuclear munitions. A war between NATO and Russia will be nuclear. 

Canadian defence policy needs to plan for that. Rather than spend money on a major conventional war, we should be building and deploying ICBM's. Once deployed, we let it be known that any violation of NATO territory will be answered by Canada with total destruction of the invader. More importantly, we define our borders, including the Arctic. If any country disputes our territorial claims, we politely advise them to suck it up. These are the borders we will defend. We will destroy any nation that violates our territorial integrity. Mutual assured destruction = deterrence.

The real travesty is the treatment of service members in retirement. This is a tragedy going back to the Great War and, for reasons I cannot explain, no government has been able to solve it.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Majority of Canada does not want a military, nor does it want the people that serve within it...today our men and women are leaving in droves....release rates are the higher than the great FRP, force reduction plan...the Chretien liberals came up with...where losses are well over 16 K short...those where numbers given last year, they only have grown since then...

I mean we can not even treat our veterans with any real respect, we discard them like useless garbage, force them into court to get benefits that every other Canadian is entitled to....here is your hand shake good luck with your PTSD, there is the door....

We expect them to perform .....care... 

Many vets such as myself feel betrayed by our nation, and it's people...who only has time for it's soldiers when the nation is in crises...Ice storms, floods, fires...

Conservatives are ....

 

 

After 35 years in the Military, rising to the rank Of Chief Warrant Officer, I retired, with dignity. I went to the release centre at NDHQ. I sat down in front of a private who asked me some questions, looked at and showed me copies of documents he was giving me. Made me sign for these copies. Took my building pass and called for an escort to show me the door. I was done. I was done and on the street.

I now had to find a doctor, dentist and other needs. There was no and is no support for anyone leaving the Military.We do not have Military services or hospitals or doctors to take care of veteran yet most Canadian think we do. We are not Americans that honour respect and think their veterans for their service.

I am not looking for sympathy as I did very well. I had planned and was OK but just to say, when our military releases after service, they are nothing. Some try to stay in their past lives but really, it is mostly their imagination of grandeur.

The Military is not "society" and never should be as we ask our men and women in the military to do things the rest of Canadians do not want to do, or should not have to do. We train them to do the dirty shit Canadians do not want to talk about. We should give them the respect for doing that for us.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Perspektiv]

11 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I guess we'll have to wait for a crisis to hit Canadians in the face to move that priority right up.

That's what it likely will boil down to.

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, herbie said:

Woke is a word used by sociopaths to describe anything that requires empathy.
Giving a shit about the person beside you is alien to them.

Besides that there's nothing shocking about our military. Been that way for decades.

 

Well we could say the same thing about a lot of things, health care, dental care, education, immigration, passports, welfare, fisheries, the numerous other security departments, like CSIS, border services, RCMP, you could literally list the majority of government departments federal or provincial and say the say thing nothing shocking there, been that way for decades...But thats not the Canadian thing to do, use to be not any more...

This is what i referred to as typical Canadian behavior... shrug your shoulders , and continue watching the hockey game...it does not concern you until you need them...then the whining will be endless. 

What is shocking is history records our failures in detail, just look at our military state prior to WWI....men would be forced to go into battle after a very short training period....then sent into battle with what ever equipment was available on the market most of it was garbage...the whistle would blow and over the top they would go, to die in great numbers...young men would die in masses while developing the skills required to survive on the battle field...most would become names and dates on a wall on some monument in some small town...where we spend one crisp morning once a  year reading their names out...

Short while later WWII the same thing happened, young men and women lost their lives becasue of this retarded idea of who needs a military...

i was fortunate i received a life time of training before entering a battle field...you or your sons or daughters will not...no they will be strapped into an aircraft, or tank, or ship which we bought off the cheapest bidder, becasue politicians think it is cheaper to bury your sons and daughters, than to purchase modern high tech equipment that comes at a cost but saves life's. 

Your answer Well shit army guy this is not shocking it has been this way for decades...since we can no longer are allowed to pray at our Rememberance parades, perhaps we can just repeat that, when we lower your sons or daughters into the ground for the last time...Not sure what you do for a living, and i pray your sons or daughters remain safe, but i have put more of my brothers and sisters in the ground than i would really like to...and those words I'm sorry cut like a knife...

[Army Guy]

18 hours ago, herbie said:

I for once tend to agree with Groot. Most of us don't want or see the need for much of an armed forces. And the people who did serve we don't like are those who think peacekeeping was a lesser function, glory seekers, and those that think because they did serve they're somehow more of a Canadian than ones that didn't.

Not sure that was groots message, The need is there that much is in our nations history, i think this stems from your not understanding what your military does for you every hour of everyday. Our military has become the goto guy becasue the other security departments lack the resources to do their jobs, like RCMP,CSIS, Immigration, fisheries, Emergency preparedness, domestic operations, fighting the effects of climate change, like forest fires, floods, not to mention providing much need security at major events, G-20 submit, Olympics, and Search and Rescue, to list a few, not to mention also look after regular army stuff, like NATO taskings, our own sovereignty, and as you mentioned before UN duties......

Peacekeeping is a policemen's job... yes we do train for it prior to going and doing it...but it is not a regular duty, much like fire fighters doing First aid, when their first or primary is fighting fires and rescue...So it is a lesser function...And if we look at the UN success rate on peacekeeping it sucks.. the military job is death and destruction, not keeping the peace, where the use of force is frowned upon...

Glory seekers is a new one to me, plenty of vets on this forum, like westcan, exflyer, dougie, and i think even Queenmandy has military service of some sort, and i'm sure none of them are glory seekers...Glory seekers are normally weeded out or left at home as they are dangerous to themselves and to others ...and your welcome to point out any of my posts where i say I'm more of a Canadian than another Canadian ..If you have an example then by all means lets address that right now...Not sure where that idea comes from...

 

[herbie]

Not pointing fingers at any vet on the forum, nor critisizing anyone who served. Just people who are out there and I have heard that meet those categories.

There is no current threat more guns will solve, so that's why the priority is low at the moment. Not an excuse for not maintaining what we do have.

 

[ExFlyer]

20 minutes ago, herbie said:

Not pointing fingers at any vet on the forum, nor critisizing anyone who served. Just people who are out there and I have heard that meet those categories.

There is no current threat more guns will solve, so that's why the priority is low at the moment. Not an excuse for not maintaining what we do have.

 

With the exception of Dougie (who commends and defends torture and murder by soldiers), and in my 35 years service and more post service, I have never met or heard of a Canadian military person that meets your categories of "glory seekers, and those that think because they did serve they're somehow more of a Canadian than ones that didn't."

I think you watch too many American action movies.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, herbie said:

Not pointing fingers at any vet on the forum, nor critisizing anyone who served. Just people who are out there and I have heard that meet those categories.

There is no current threat more guns will solve, so that's why the priority is low at the moment. Not an excuse for not maintaining what we do have.

 

 

If anything i think soldiers really think they are sub par, most Canadians think they are far better than the soldiers that serve, you should hear the stories that soldiers tell about how they have been treated by the general public...and how it effects them mentally...Yes there is a huge difference in our stations of life. 

You did criticized all the men and women that served with your statement, or atleast that is how it came across to me...which people are you talking about, is this a myth or fact....

Well sir most of the world is boosting their militaries to record levels, men, and equipment, NATO, 5 Eyes, all are spending more than ever before, China is building its military at record speeds, and has clearly stated it will take Taiwan in 2025...US has already stated it will defend Taiwan, lets not even mention Russia and it's aggression, in fact it has threaten both Finland and Sweden with military aggression..in fact there is more conflicts raging in the world today, than there was in the cold war...the threat is there you just have to look...

Canadians seem to think that becasue we have a weak military we will not be obligated to send Canadians into these new conflicts where we are signatory...Not true, we will expend lives and resources ready or not...whats that mean to you and me...perhaps nothing, your sons and daughters may be told to answer the call of our nation , and in sub par equipment becasue that is the only stuff available. we have done this in WWI, and WWII, even Korea, sent men and women into a war zone with little training and shitty equipment...and if you think it can't happen again...well sir it has already happened 3 times see a pattern there...

But our Government and it's people think it is easier to bury our sons and daughters rather than equip them with life saving equipment...and frankly to be honest, I don't think this country is worth my son and daughters lives.. not in it's present state.   

Edited November 23, 2023 by Army Guy

[BeaverFever]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:25 PM, Perspektiv said:

I worked with a woke person before.

She berated me after I laughed about a racial joke an employee made about my wife. My wife is Asian.

She was offended on my wife's behalf (a very key far left woke liberal tendency--getting offended on your behalf), unaware my wife has a sense of humor. I wouldn't have married someone without one.

She was white, but felt the need to "educate" me about racism. All sentences ending with a condescending high inflection.

How silence was acceptance of racism, like I should be ashamed of not fighting every slight or microaggression as if you could end racism by force. Yet unable to discern between her tolerance for such humor and mine as potentially being different, nor the intent behind the humor being key. Nuances she was clueless towards. I knew debate was a waste of time so I just agreed with everything she said.

Shame only makes people do it behind your back.

I then asked her if she had ever experienced racism (seeing she wasn't going to stop):

"No I have not". I grin and act surprised.

It didn't hit her she was lecturing a black person on how to deal with something she had never experienced. Something I had dealt with my entire life. No in depth knowledge other than self help book quotes.

This is wokeness in today's world.

Has nothing to do with empathy.

Type of people who want you to constantly feel shame for being a Canadian for what the country did in the past.

Heck, we should be shamed of our national anthem. How dare we call this our country. Its stolen land. 

To feel shame for being white. 

To be ashamed for being male. 

A lot of these woke causes demand shame and reflection, but amount to nothing done. 

Horrible policies that typically don't look into data. Just shame and vitriol for dissenting opinions.

The border fiasco in the US. Woke ideology would shame anyone wanting better border control, but deliberately deny the data.

Once the floodgates open and they are faced with the problem, now their "sanctuary states" no longer can accept this to continue.

They coin terms like TERF, to shame and silence dissent.

This is about control. White savior complexes and narssisism.

Same person would berate another for using plastic straws, yet throw garbage bags out which contain just as much, if not more plastic.

Worse even, would think lesser of those who didn't, even though 95% of plastic waste makes it to landfill.

Last time I checked, empathy was about understanding the feelings of another. Not feeling on their behalf.

It’s not about getting offended on your wife’s behalf and whether your wife minds or not is irrelevant. It’s not about this one joke or this one person, your wife.
 

You can’t tolerate racist jokes in the workplace Because regardless of your wife’s  situation the next guy is going to say “ok well if they can be racist in the workplace then so can I” Either you have a sanitary environment or you don’t you cant pick and choose which racist jokes are ok and which people can be targeted for racist jokes and which people can’t.  
 

Also even if you and your wife aren’t offended it doesn’t mean some other person who overheard, Asian or otherwise isnt offended. I’m pretty sure another Asian person would be and probably any other cusible minority. It’s not like minorities are ok with racism as long as it’s directed at some other race.  They are offended by racism period and assume a white person who is racist against one race is probably racist against them too. 

[Legato]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s not about getting offended on your wife’s behalf and whether your wife minds or not is irrelevant. It’s not about this one joke or this one person, your wife.
 

You can’t tolerate racist jokes in the workplace Because regardless of your wife’s  situation the next guy is going to say “ok well if they can be racist in the workplace then so can I” Either you have a sanitary environment or you don’t you cant pick and choose which racist jokes are ok and which people can be targeted for racist jokes and which people can’t.  
 

Also even if you and your wife aren’t offended it doesn’t mean some other person who overheard, Asian or otherwise isnt offended. I’m pretty sure another Asian person would be and probably any other cusible minority. It’s not like minorities are ok with racism as long as it’s directed at some other race.  They are offended by racism period and assume a white person who is racist against one race is probably racist against them too. 

Some people do have a sense of humour and are well rounded because of it.

You should spend a year in Liverpool or even better Aintree. That woke nonsense  would see you unceremoniously tossed into the Mersey.

[Aristides]

My own feeling is that is OK between friends who know there is no insult intended. Otherwise, not so much.

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, herbie said:

There is no current threat more guns will solve, 

One of the reasons we're not taken seriously by the rest of the world, and why the US is presently dismissing us is because our military is collapsing and no longer fit for purpose. This shows itself in a number ways, from the way other countries speak of and about us, to the way they deal with us. It shows in the US not including us in various economic and defense agreements. It shows in the dismissive way others speak of us and treat us.

As for what guns do. Guns are a threat. Guns are a warning. If Ukraine had been as strong a  year and a half ago as it is now Russia would never have invaded. If Taiwan wasn't armed and wasn't under American protection it would already have been invaded.

Canada has no means of protecting its interests nor its people around the world. It has no means of even living up to the military treaties we've signed, like NATO. More importantly, because it's become obvious we not only can't live up to them we have no intention of even trying, we're looked down on by other nations. What is our word even worth?

 

 

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, Legato said:

Some people do have a sense of humour and are well rounded because of it.

You should spend a year in Liverpool or even better Aintree. That woke nonsense  would see you unceremoniously tossed into the Mersey.

Not being racist in the workplace is “woke” now ?

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

My own feeling is that is OK between friends who know there is no insult intended. Otherwise, not so much.

Exactly!  I’m not politically correct when I’m with my friends but only am idi*t would think they could behave the same way in a workplace in front of people they don’t know well