OH CANADA, how low we've sunk

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

So can the jews, and they have been asked to stop by most countries in the world.

Well no they can't unfortunately.

At best all they can do is press 'pause' - because palestine refuses to live in peace. Palestine will simply launch another attack and kill civillians, tomorrow, next week, next year, whatever.  They absolutely reject peace.

So there's nothing the israelis can do to end it tomorrow. If they want to end it they have to keep going.

But hamas could - palestine could.  Gaza could surrender tomorrow and it's over.  If israel were to surrender tomorrow the killings would just be beginning.

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

 

You better .....

 

Hamas is the freakin' NAZIs all over again.

I said ""It doesn't takes a genius to figure out" that killing 10 times more men women and children and babies borders on genocide."

Another nazi inference.... typical when arguments get you nowhere LOL

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well no they can't unfortunately.

At best all they can do is press 'pause' - because palestine refuses to live in peace. Palestine will simply launch another attack and kill civillians, tomorrow, next week, next year, whatever.  They absolutely reject peace.

So there's nothing the israelis can do to end it tomorrow. If they want to end it they have to keep going.

But hamas could - palestine could.  Gaza could surrender tomorrow and it's over.  If israel were to surrender tomorrow the killings would just be beginning.

So, press pause, as the rest of the world has asked them to do. They flat out said no.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Also, Trudeau has sold out Canada. He and his activist friends have labeled Canada settler-colonialist, which undermines Canada’s stature.

Did you know Israel's settlement and colonization of Palestine, in particular the treatment of Palestinans, was inspired by the way we treated the people who lived here before us?

I'm quite sure you do know actually.

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Did you know Israel's settlement and colonization of Palestine, in particular the treatment of Palestinans, was inspired by the way we treated the people who lived here before us?

I'm quite sure you do know actually.

What a load of rubbish.  Canada handled Indigenous affairs better than the Americans, Australia, and probably anywhere else.  No Wounded Knee massacres, no bounty hunters.  The French lived among the Hurons; the Brits fought alongside the Iroquois and made Brant a Captain. No Manifest ;Destiny.  The Brits tried to establish an Indian territory with Tecumseh in the Ohio Valley.  The Residential School system was set up by progressives as a way to provide literacy and public education, and yes, to “civilize” Indigenous who lived under harsh conditions relative to the settlers.  It had problems but all cultures warred and fought and had conquests.  How do you preserve native cultures?  Let me guess, through reservations, treaties, and government funding.  The very ingredients of preservation are also the ingredients of oppression.  The assimilation versus preservation debate remains unresolved because no one can resist or ward off human development for long.  Stop pretending Indigenous are so victimized.  They certainly get more freebies than any group by far.  Bad shit happened to lots of people in the past, some more than others, but no one alive today caused any of it.  How much does Bob’s Pakistani-Canadian wife owe buddy on the reserve?   Taxpayers already pay for health, education, social services, and much infrastructure for Indigenous who don’t pay taxes, have free land, and don’t pay for university.  Gimme a break.  The extortion has to stop.  

Edited November 5, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What a load of rubbish.  

No, its true.

Architect of apartheid

Canada’s support for Israel has taken many forms, but perhaps its greatest gift has been its example

Canada’s support for Israel has a long history, dating back even before Israel was founded. In fact, it was Canada’s own Lester B. Pearson who chaired the United Nations committee that recommended the partition of Palestine and the creation of Israel in 1947.

Canada’s support for Israel has taken many forms, but perhaps its greatest gift has been a real-life how-to guide for establishing and maintaining a settler society that includes an array of strategies, tactics, and programs for taking land, subjugating Indigenous populations, and weakening their resistance.

https://briarpatchmagazine.com/articles/view/architect-of-apartheid

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, its true.

Architect of apartheid

Canada’s support for Israel has taken many forms, but perhaps its greatest gift has been its example

Canada’s support for Israel has a long history, dating back even before Israel was founded. In fact, it was Canada’s own Lester B. Pearson who chaired the United Nations committee that recommended the partition of Palestine and the creation of Israel in 1947.

Canada’s support for Israel has taken many forms, but perhaps its greatest gift has been a real-life how-to guide for establishing and maintaining a settler society that includes an array of strategies, tactics, and programs for taking land, subjugating Indigenous populations, and weakening their resistance.

https://briarpatchmagazine.com/articles/view/architect-of-apartheid

Pure radical left garbage.  Actually you’re reading from the anti-Semitic song sheet passed around universities across North America.  It’s a way of reframing Canada as a settler colonial bastion of oppression instead of being one of the world’s most accepting and tolerant countries. It’s worse than exaggerating; it’s a narrative used today to justify terrorism, anti-Semitism, and extortion of people who had nothing to do with injustices of the past who happen to have been born white.  It’s called discrimination on the basis of race.  Who knew that it would be the left that would re-establish racism and antisemitism?  I’ve learned a lot about reality these last few years.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Pure radical left garbage.  Actually you’re reading from the anti-Semitic song sheet passed around universities across North America.

No I was reading from Briarpatch. Sure its left wing but its facts are accurate.

In any case, since you think Canada's handing of indigenous people was the best in the world why are you so affronted at the knowledge we provided an example for other countries to follow?  By rights you should be proud of that but you sound ashamed.

[herbie]

So parade around Toronto yelling and waving placards. It's at least 5% more effective than clicking a mouse at getting completely foreign countries and terrorist organizations to change their policies.

And less reprehensible than blaming your own country for what other ones do.

[Perspektiv]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Point is "its OK to kill 10 times as many Palestinian men, women and children"?

Its no more okay to kidnap, kill, rape mutilate and burn Israeli civilians alive. You should watch raw footage taken by Hamas soldiers. By Israeli civilians, of the carnage.

Families burned alive in their bunkers, some while trying to scape by car, their charred remains, still in the vehicles.

If you only see death tolls you are shamefully missing the mark.

No civilian death tolls are acceptable in this conflict.

But to breach sovereign territory, and deliberately kill innocent civilians warrants a strong and resolute response from Israel.

Anything less, encourages this to happen again.

The response must be strong enough to bring Hamas to its knees. 

You cannot allow a group like this to regroup, virtually unscathed.

They are using the word genocide, hypocritically.

[suds]

Is there anyone here who believes that Hamas (and their leaders) are acting in the best interests of the Palestinians in Gaza?  After 15 years of Hamas governance how has it really turned out? When you consider the money spent on 300 miles of tunnels and all the weaponry, could it have been put to better use? Is there a reason none of their leaders actually live in Gaza, some of which are allegedly billionaires? I don't put much faith in polls either, especially polls that if answered in the wrong way might put those being polled in an extremely awkward and dangerous position. Now we have this escalation in hostilities. Your thoughts?

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Its no more okay to kidnap, kill, rape mutilate and burn Israeli civilians alive. ...

but it is OK to kill 10 times as many arabs in their effort to what,... annihilate hamas...which they cannot see so just kill em all??

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-israeli-warplanes-hit-061000224.html

It is so easy to get you folks all riled up and in a tizzy just by making opposite statement to your banter.

Like I said, give em all weapons and bombs and rockets and wipe each other out. It would sure shut you guys up LOL

Edited November 5, 2023 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I said ""It doesn't takes a genius to figure out" that killing 10 times more men women and children and babies borders on genocide."

well - the nazi's killed 70,000 civvies in france and britian - we killed over 2 million of their civvies fighting back.  Does that mean we were guilty of genocide?

A killing is justified or it isn't, the number is not relevant. You do what you have to do to win the war.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So, press pause, as the rest of the world has asked them to do. They flat out said no.

I would say no too.  Why would they? Why SHOULD they?

If they could end it - that would be different.  But why delay the inevitable and suffer even more later?  Better to finish it now rather than give the enemy a chance to regroup i would think.

Gaza still has hundreds of hostages they refuse to give up and still shoots rockets at israel every single day. If they want a pause in the war THEY started, they can take the first actions.

[ExFlyer]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

well - the nazi's killed 70,000 civvies in france and britian - we killed over 2 million of their civvies fighting back.  Does that mean we were guilty of genocide?

A killing is justified or it isn't, the number is not relevant. You do what you have to do to win the war.

We are not in 1937 t0 1945 WWII or in France or in Britain.

What is your definition of genocide??

Genocide : "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I would say no too.  Why would they? Why SHOULD they?

If they could end it - that would be different.  But why delay the inevitable and suffer even more later?  Better to finish it now rather than give the enemy a chance to regroup i would think.

Gaza still has hundreds of hostages they refuse to give up and still shoots rockets at israel every single day. If they want a pause in the war THEY started, they can take the first actions.

OK. Your opinion and I take it.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

We are not in 1937 t0 1945 WWII or in France or in Britain.

So? Were we guilty of genocide then or not?]

No? Well then your argument that its' "obvious" goes out the window.

Quote

What is your definition of genocide??

Well i notice you offered one, lets  use that for now.

Genocide : "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

With the aim of destroying that nation.  Or group.  So.... it's not just killing a lot of people - it's doing so with the specific goal of destroying the nation or group.

So  - unless the israelis are deliberately targeting civilians for the sake of targeting civilians....  it's not genocide even by your own definition.  And they're not - given the circumstances they're actually being pretty careful and casualties are low.  They're not exactly carpet bombing cities.

Genocide would seem to be off the table

Quote

OK. Your opinion and I take it.

 Simple fact.

Look - i get that you don't like seeing civillian deaths.  I doubt many really do (depsite the recent demonstrations praising the israeli deaths).  And i get you WANT that kind of death toll to be 'bad' or 'wrong' somehow. 

Despite the fact we fight from time to time you seem like a nice person and nice people generally get upset when innocent women or children are blown into small bite sized pieces.  It tends to be something they oppose, and whether or not its "justified" is at best a secondary consideration.

But - this is war. This is what happens when you start a war and you are losing. This is what ALWAYS happens when you start a war and are losing - it happens even worse when your military is hiding behind the civvies.

Israel is doing nothing wrong. It has the right to defend itself - this is what defending itself looks like. This was inevitable the moment Gaza decided to start a war.  Now it's going to have to play out till the end and there will be much suffering and much horror.

The take away is - don't start wars if you can humanly avoid it.  The second take away is "if someone DOES start a war, crush them so badly and thoroughly that they will NEVER reach that decision again. "

[ironstone]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So can the jews, and they have been asked to stop by most countries in the world.

Many of those that want Israel to stop only want it so that Hamas gets breathing space to survive and plan for the next barbaric attack. A lot of people were silent on Oct 7.

[ExFlyer]

8 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Many of those that want Israel to stop only want it so that Hamas gets breathing space to survive and plan for the next barbaric attack. A lot of people were silent on Oct 7.

Yeah sure LOL

Ya wanna keep playin or are you smart enough to drop it and not respond to me?

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So? Were we guilty of genocide then or not?]

No? Well then your argument that its' "obvious" goes out the window.

Well i notice you offered one, lets  use that for now.

Genocide : "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

With the aim of destroying that nation.  Or group.  So.... it's not just killing a lot of people - it's doing so with the specific goal of destroying the nation or group.

So  - unless the israelis are deliberately targeting civilians for the sake of targeting civilians....  it's not genocide even by your own definition.  And they're not - given the circumstances they're actually being pretty careful and casualties are low.  They're not exactly carpet bombing cities.

Genocide would seem to be off the table

 Simple fact.

Look - i get that you don't like seeing civillian deaths.  I doubt many really do (depsite the recent demonstrations praising the israeli deaths).  And i get you WANT that kind of death toll to be 'bad' or 'wrong' somehow. 

Despite the fact we fight from time to time you seem like a nice person and nice people generally get upset when innocent women or children are blown into small bite sized pieces.  It tends to be something they oppose, and whether or not its "justified" is at best a secondary consideration.

But - this is war. This is what happens when you start a war and you are losing. This is what ALWAYS happens when you start a war and are losing - it happens even worse when your military is hiding behind the civvies.

Israel is doing nothing wrong. It has the right to defend itself - this is what defending itself looks like. This was inevitable the moment Gaza decided to start a war.  Now it's going to have to play out till the end and there will be much suffering and much horror.

The take away is - don't start wars if you can humanly avoid it.  The second take away is "if someone DOES start a war, crush them so badly and thoroughly that they will NEVER reach that decision again. "

OK.

Edited November 5, 2023 by ExFlyer

[taxme]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Ya gits wut ya votes fer.!

I am pretty sure that the Palestinians did not ask for this constant bombing of their homes, and the genocide of Palestinian women and children that they have been getting from Israel these past few weeks. What Israel is doing now does appear to be committing war crimes and crimes against humanity and they are being allowed to get away with it. Even mighty America cannot stop Israel. America knows who is the boss. ?

[taxme]

8 hours ago, ironstone said:

Do you propose that Israel take a one for one approach to dealing with terrorist Hamas? Should the atrocity on Oct 7 be repeated by Israel on Hamas civilians?

There is no moral equivalence here between what Hamas did and the response of the IDF.

1200 Israelis dead. Over 12000 Palestinians dead. Not very equal looking to me. It sure looks to me like Israel is trying to make up for lost time. Just saying. 

[taxme]

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The irony of Canada being soft on terrorism is that the terrorist-led country of Gaza doesn’t respect Canada.

Canada is a country run by equity activists who are enabled by too many dim and cowardly people.  Canada is down the list in the pecking order, and smaller countries are getting more pull.  Project weakness and suffer the consequences.

Also, Trudeau has sold out Canada.  He and his activist friends have labeled Canada settler-colonialist, which undermines Canada’s stature.  This is the fruit of all the identity politics fluff Canada has peddled for the past several years.

Is there any country on earth that really respects Canada today especially with this dumb ass leader that is running and ruining Canada today. He talks big, but acts small. Turdeau has sold Canada out. He and his Marxist ilk buddies have made a total mess of Canada today. Canada is not even Canadian looking anymore. It is starting to look more like a third world country full of non-white foreigners who want nothing to do with Canada. Just take advantage of Canada.

We can thank the leftist liberals and the socialist NDP in trying to destroy our once great British and European culture and traditions and turn our own white British/European homeland into a third world hell hole homeland. 

Isn't multiculturalism and diversity just wonderful? You voted for it, and now you have it. Enjoy. ☹️

[taxme]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Canada has sunk very low on many issues.

The list is so long.   Just pick a subject.

Trudeau's superiority in saying there will absolutely be NO MORE CARVEOUTs of the carbon tax just proves his arrogance.  He could care less about Canadians.  The only reason he gave a break to the Atlantic provinces is because Liberal voters in that area were turning against him.  Everything he does is geared to the next election.  But he has made grave mistakes and has gone down in the polls a long way.

But never underestimate the cunning abilities of liberal politicians.  We can be sure they are scheming for the next election and will have something up their sleeve.

 

The Marxist in Ottawa is not finished with trying to destroy Canada just yet nor is he finished with trying to win the next election. If he promises enough freebies to all in the next election, the Joe and Mary six packs will once again fall for the con job and they will probably end up voting him back in power. Canadians can be so wishy-washy, don't you know. And if that does happen we really can kiss Canada's ass goodbye. I just do not trust the ba-ta-d. He hates Canada. 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So can the jews, and they have been asked to stop by most countries in the world.

The truth is that the Israeli Jews do not give a fiddlers phk as to what the rest of the world says or wants. Israel thinks and believes that they do own the rest of the world. At least it does appear so. ?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, suds said:

Is there anyone here who believes that Hamas (and their leaders) are acting in the best interests of the Palestinians in Gaza?  

No, it's pretty clear Hamas is an Israeli contraption working against the interests of Palestine.  A growing number of secular left-wing moderate Palestinians, worse than terrorists apparently, prompted Israeli conservatives to think a right-wing counterweight to that would be a good idea.

Hamas is blowback from Israeli.  Between the post WW2 machinations and prejudices of the Allies and then the same characters in more recent times the interests of both ordinary Palestinians and Israelis have been lost to history.  

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

I am pretty sure that the Palestinians did not ask for this constant bombing of their homes, and the genocide of Palestinian women and children that they have been getting from Israel these past few weeks.

But they did.  Specifically. Hamas made no bones about it before they were elected, while they were elected, or after they were elected.

Hey - remember all those protests in palestine and around the world demanding hamas stop attacking isreal the last time this happened?  Yeah - men neither.  You see their people or supporters around the world right now demanding hamas surrender itself? Nope - i don't either.

This is literally what they wanted and what they knew would happen.  Go figure.

 

[suds]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, it's pretty clear Hamas is an Israeli contraption working against the interests of Palestine.  A growing number of secular left-wing moderate Palestinians, worse than terrorists apparently, prompted Israeli conservatives to think a right-wing counterweight to that would be a good idea.

Hamas is blowback from Israeli.  Between the post WW2 machinations and prejudices of the Allies and then the same characters in more recent times the interests of both ordinary Palestinians and Israelis have been lost to history.  

There was a time when the Israelis saw Hamas as a far lesser threat than the PLO due to it being less militaristic and political. Can't blame them for that. And then things changed and Hamas become more militaristic and political than the PLO with the emergence of political Islam. That's pretty much the story isn't it?

Edited November 6, 2023 by suds