Canada is considering a guaranteed universal basic income program. Here’s what that means

[CdnFox]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/canada-is-considering-a-guaranteed-universal-basic-income-program-here-s-what-that-means/article_98a4ee99-150c-50b5-8867-0203efc51520.html

The push for a basic income program gained more momentum during and after the COVID-19 pandemic, as the Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB) — which paid out $2,000 a month to millions of Canadians — raised the possibility of a permanent income program.

 

TL/DR :  We've done it before on very limited grounds and so we can do it now for everyone no problem. - the star.

They point to cerb - but fail to note that cerb drove up inflation insanely and plunged us hundreds of billions of dollars into debt. There is no universe where we could sustain that indefinitely or even for a decade.

And the studies on this kind of thing always show that it eases stress in the poor (obviously) , but shows it DOESN"T help them find work or move ahead in life, it just makes their poverty comfortable.  There's no measurable benefit to society or the taxpayer.

 

But i bet good money this is going to be trudeau's "big thing" for the next election to try to win back the woke vote.

[ironstone]

Unfortunately, I think you're right that this will be hailed as a "big thing" and there are too many  people foolish enough to buy into the idea.

 

[herbie]

And why would it be foolish to have ONE program instead of umpteen all with their own bureaucracy?

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

And why would it be foolish to have ONE program instead of umpteen all with their own bureaucracy?

Dozens of reasons. And frankly we could do with fewer programs, not a big bloated version brought to you by the makers of the arrivecan app and the people who brought you airport delays.

UBI is just another left wing social eperiement that's already been seen to be a failure but that the left is in love with.

[herbie]

Do you always hover 24/7 to spout instant replies even before engaging your brain? Or is someone paying you to automatically spout conservative buzzwsords and soundbytes?

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, herbie said:

Do you always hover 24/7 to spout instant replies even before engaging your brain? Or is someone paying you to automatically spout conservative buzzwsords and soundbytes?

So - i give you facts and reasoned responses and you freak out and have a mental break down.

Yeap - you'd be a leftie all right  

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

There is no universe where we could sustain that indefinitely or even for a decade.

Sure there is when everyone else in the universe did the very same thing.

 

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure there is when everyone else in the universe did the very same thing.

 

Sorry - i mean our actual universe, not the twisted and imaginary one you lefties tend to live in

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry - i mean our actual universe, not the twisted and imaginary one you lefties tend to live in

Canada is only country in debt?

[CdnFox]

Just now, eyeball said:

Canada is only country in debt?

Sorry - i'm  sure your rantings make sense inside your head when you're talking to the voices, but in the real world you'll have to use your words and explain what you mean. Most of us don't speak fluent gibberish.

[herbie]

So if the cost for the govt to deliver services goes down, the debt must go up?

[myata]

Handouts do not create broad prosperity, only universal misery and further polarization of the society. Bureaucracy succeeded in convincing the society that throwing a lot of public money at it is the key to solving any problems - it even converted to a special jargon, note: not solve the problem by such time according to this criteria, but let's throw at it xyz billions of your money and see what happens. Of course it directly contradicts the observable reality but who can be bothered to notice, right?

Who is interested in real solutions that could work here? The bureaucracy, to undermine its story and power or even make it unnecessary, to a large extent? Or the sleeping populace?

Edited October 22, 2023 by myata

[myata]

There's a highly successful business model these days: a service is outsourced to a private company; that takes especially from public, huge bucks, pays workers the absolute minimum possible, with minimal benefits and job security, and pockets the rest, to invest in condos, renting them out at an outrageous rate. One can see it pretty much everywhere.

Why not cooperatives that could do the same work for less, and pay workers more by cutting on the profit and management hierarchy? That's an interesting question isn't it?

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

And why would it be foolish to have ONE program instead of umpteen all with their own bureaucracy?

Can you explain to me why our debt level doubled during the pandemic, with a good chunk of it being used on the cerb ... how could we sustain that level of debt...if not you someone from the left that thinks this is a good idea...

Lets keep in mind that the average 17 year old was collecting CERB while living at home with mom and dad...making more money staying home than he did working at MacDonald's...it's why we have minimum wage for these teenagers, to work at these services so we could still afford to eat there....lets also remember these people are not paying taxes to start with...

so who is paying for this universal wage...

 

[Moonlight Graham]

Society will be much better off when AI and robotics do all the work for us and we all get to sit on our fat arses and do nothing if we choose, which many will.  What could go wrong?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

So if the cost for the govt to deliver services goes down, the debt must go up?

Well that's a dumb thing to say - is that what you got out of that? Do you really not understand what we're talking about THAT much?

[CdnFox]

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Can you explain to me why our debt level doubled during the pandemic, with a good chunk of it being used on the cerb ... how could we sustain that level of debt...if not you someone from the left that thinks this is a good idea...

Lets keep in mind that the average 17 year old was collecting CERB while living at home with mom and dad...making more money staying home than he did working at MacDonald's...it's why we have minimum wage for these teenagers, to work at these services so we could still afford to eat there....lets also remember these people are not paying taxes to start with...

so who is paying for this universal wage...

 

This is the thing.  these people always believe that 'weath' is something that can be 'redistributed'.

At the end of the day - wealth isn't a "thIng". Like - you can't have 4 lbs of "wealthonium".  It's not tangeble like that.  Even money is just paper, it has no actual intrinsic value and nowadays it's not even that, it's just computer bits and bytes.  Wealth does not even come from money or assets

Wealth comes from the MOVEMENT of assents and the CREATION of value.  I do an hours work and produce an hour's worth of value which i trade to someone else for something worth an hour's value.  That's how it works. If i find a way to create even more value with my time then i get to buy even more things etc etc - but at the end of the day everything i buy has to represent something that was created.

When you give people money that they didn't earn, you destroy that system and the whole thing just falls apart. You create inflation, you decrease productivity and value, you increase debt and reduce gov't revenues.

 

If UBI worked - why not set it at 1 million dollars a year?  That way we'd ALL have 1 million a year and we'd all be rich and have wild carefree lives!!!!!

but even the socialists instinctively know there's a problem with that.  But - its the same reason why UBI wouldn't work on a smaller amount either.  It's a dumb idea.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What could go wrong?

[Legato]

The most frightening words on the planet...as Ronald Reagen once said

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help:

3 hours ago, herbie said:

So if the cost for the govt to deliver services goes down, the debt must go up?

Your elevator is broken.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry - i'm  sure your rantings make sense inside your head when you're talking to the voices, but in the real world you'll have to use your words and explain what you mean. Most of us don't speak fluent gibberish.

Most don't have narrow shallow perspectives and aren't blind to an allegory a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one 

In this case also an economic meaning.

Everyone on the planet is in the same boat - every country save a tiny few perhaps are in debt to their eyeballs. If this debt was owed to an alien invasion fleet that was orbiting overhead and demanding payment or else, your financial panic might be justified.

But since it's just us that we owe it to we'll either make a deal and figure it out or blow ourselves to Kingdom Come....because we can't get over ourselves. That's actually kind of hilarious in a Monty Pythonesque way. It would make a good dystopian tragicomic skit.

I doubt we're special, it's probably like this on planets all over the universe.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Most don't have narrow shallow perspectives and aren't blind to an allegory a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one 

Agreed, you don't have any of that either.

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In this case also an economic meaning.

As i  say - i'm sure it made sense when you discussed it with the voices.

 

Quote

Everyone on the planet is in the same boat - every country save a tiny few perhaps are in debt to their eyeballs. If this debt was owed to an alien invasion fleet that was orbiting overhead and demanding payment or else, your financial panic might be justified.

Well no, that is inaccurate. Various countries have various levels of debt compared to their gdp and population.  There is a very wide variety. For example - france and germany are right beside each other but france is like 90 percent debt to gdp while germany is 60.  That's a massive difference.

Canada used to be in the 30's before Justin came along Now we're close to 90. And it's growing. Worse - our productivity is falling.

So no- what you said could not be LESS true.

 

Quote

But since it's just us that we owe it to we'll either make a deal and figure it out or blow ourselves to Kingdom Come....because we can't get over ourselves. That's actually kind of hilarious in a Monty Pythonesque way. It would make a good dystopian tragicomic skit.

A- Yeah - before we get to mass suicide lets just elect a competent leader like PP and never elect the liberal losers who did this to us ever again.

and b) - its not even close to a monty python skit and you should be slapped with a large fish for suggesting it is.

Quote

I doubt we're special, it's probably like this on planets all over the universe.

Welll YOU'RE "special" at any rate.

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Canada used to be in the 30's before Justin came along Now we're close to 90. And it's growing.

Cite.  Nobody trusts your arithmetic.

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

A- Yeah - before we get to mass suicide lets just elect a competent leader like PP and never elect the liberal losers who did this to us ever again.

I never elected them but thanks for taking responsibility for 

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

and b) - its not even close to a monty python skit 

The parts where you pipe up are usually hilarious.

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

and you should be slapped with a large fish for suggesting it is.

Meh... I've been slapped and even bitten by big fish before and I have the scars to prove it.

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Welll YOU'RE "special" at any rate.

Awww, that's sweet. Thanks!

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, myata said:

Handouts do not create broad prosperity,

Sharing economic capital gains more broadly like it was in our grandparent's days following WW2 is really the only way to do it.

Failing that, taxing the snot out of the 1% to fund a UBI should work too.

Edited October 23, 2023 by eyeball

[August1991]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

TL/DR :  We've done it before on very limited grounds and so we can do it now for everyone no problem. - the star.

They point to cerb - but fail to note that cerb drove up inflation insanely and plunged us hundreds of billions of dollars into debt. There is no universe where we could sustain that indefinitely or even for a decade.

And the studies on this kind of thing always show that it eases stress in the poor (obviously) , but shows it DOESN"T help them find work or move ahead in life, it just makes their poverty comfortable.  There's no measurable benefit to society or the taxpayer.

''''

But i bet good money this is going to be trudeau's "big thing" for the next election to try to win back the woke vote.

Disagree.

[CdnFox]

44 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Cite.  Nobody trusts your arithmetic.

People who can do math do.  Rules you out of course

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I never elected them but thanks for taking responsibility for 

Sure you did.  You voted for them and you defend them now.  Of course - you weren't alone. There's lots of stupid people in Canada.  But we can fix that

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The parts where you pipe up are usually hilarious.

For me and the rest of the board, sure. 

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Meh... I've been slapped and even bitten by big fish before and I have the scars to prove it.

Well that's what happens when you're such a worm

 

Quote

Awww, that's sweet. Thanks!

No problem bud - i always make a point of encouraging those with lower iq's whenever i can.  You get on that short bus with PRIDE young man!