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Complicit in War Crimes


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Just now, CdnFox said:

Post all the propagada you like.  At the end of the day, on October 7th the gazans broke through the border and deliberately killed about 1500 people in cold blood without cause.

THat started a war and gazans die till they surrender or are defeated.

Don't like that? Don't start wars.

Only simpletons would say this started on October 7th.

Simpletons or those who want to avoid talking about the history of the region and the truth to justify the ongoing crimes against the Palestinians.

Shhh... 

You think what Hamas did was horrifying? Here are Israeli soldiers talking about what Israeli soldiers did:

 

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1 hour ago, marcus said:

Only simpletons would say this started on October 7th

Only a terrorist supporter would suggest it didn't.

This started on October 7th.  It will end when hamas surrenders or is dead. However many gazans have to die between now and then is up to hamas.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Which is what they always say. Time and time and time again...without end. 

Yeah - that's the way the truth is supposed to work. It's not actually fluid like the left believes :)  

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2 hours ago, marcus said:

Only simpletons would say this started on October 7th.

Simpletons or those who want to avoid talking about the history of the region and the truth to justify the ongoing crimes against the Palestinians.

Shhh... 

You think what Hamas did was horrifying? Here are Israeli soldiers talking about what Israeli soldiers did:

 

This case should be investigated to the fullest, BUT right now all you have is a few allegations, there have been no recovery of bodies, No bodies, no crime.... what you do have is a few people telling stories...and if it becomes true then war crimes investigation should be down, and charges laid...

Tantura massacre - Wikipedia

It did not start on Oct 7 th... it has been broiling over for decades....Oct 7 th is the day that Israel decided to take action it is their 9/11 and the government of Israel will not stop until Hamas is uprooted, and removed...it does not care what you or I think about the conflict...it will do what ever it takes to keep it's citizens safe...

We live in a nation where it is perfectly ok to stand with a terrorist organization, as you have.... to protest in our streets, or chat on a forum.. twisting truth to benefit terrorists...as you have tried to do with this video...

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Tantura massacre - Wikipedia

It did not start on Oct 7 th... it has been broiling over for decades....Oct 7 th is the day that Israel decided to take action it is their 9/11 and the government of Israel will not stop until Hamas is uprooted, and removed...it does not care what you or I think about the conflict...it will do what ever it takes to keep it's citizens safe...

We live in a nation where it is perfectly ok to stand with a terrorist organization, as you have.... to protest in our streets, or chat on a forum.. twisting truth to benefit terrorists...as you have tried to do with this video...

Bro... and I mean this, as someone who has family who is and has served.

Don't fall for this BS.

Israel has been "mowing the lawn" in Gaza since 2006. 

Do you ever wonder why one of the most secure borders, where people are shot at when they get within the buffer zone, suddenly had no security, and these Hamas militants were able to get through? Do you question why Israel did nothing when both Egyptian and U.S. intelligence warned them of the attack a few days prior? 

It took them over 6 hours to respond.

Hamas is just a symptom of the ongoing suffocation of Palestinians.

If you create a prison, you are bound to have gangs forming and some dominating. Gaza is a concentration camp where their borders, the air, any movement of humans, food and resources is controlled by Israel. Where they regularly get carpet bombed every few years. This is how the next Hamas militant is born.

Israel has been treating the Palestinians like "human animals" as they say, for over 75 years. Hamas only came to be less than 30 years ago.

 

 

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3 hours ago, marcus said:

The religious angle is used to get Christian Zionists on the side of Israel.

This is not a religious war. This is simply a land grab.

The problem with the Western Left is that since they don't believe in religion they simply can't understand or get into the skin of those who do, much less those who do so fiercely. So they discount its importance and try to reduce things to a secular argument they can understand.

But it IS about religion. If they weren't Jews there wouldn't have been a war when the country was born. If they weren't Jews, the Arabs wouldn't have fled. A number of countries were being created around that time. Israel was just one of them. And sure, the majority of people would be Jews. But no one said the Arabs had to leave.

3 hours ago, marcus said:

Palestinians have been forcibly removed from their homes for decades and it is happening to this day where they are literally being kicked out of their homes by Zionist settlers.

Yeah, everyone knows. This is mostly because Netanyahu's party relies, in a divided parliament, on the votes of extremist Jews. But the Muslim world didn't care when Syria bombarded whole cites into rubble. How many people were forced from their homes or killed? Nobody cares.

3 hours ago, marcus said:

You think what Hamas did was horrifying? 

Anyone heard of the Nakba?

And how many Jews were slaughtered in that war? And in successive wars? How many Jews would have survived if the Arabs had won any of those wars? But trying to excuse barbarism of the present by protesting about barbarism of the past is a lame and stupid thing to do. The past WAS barbaric almost everywhere. Do you want to bring that back to life?

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1 hour ago, marcus said:

Bro... and I mean this, as someone who has family who is and has served.

Don't fall for this BS.

Israel has been "mowing the lawn" in Gaza since 2006. 

Do you ever wonder why one of the most secure borders, where people are shot at when they get within the buffer zone, suddenly had no security, and these Hamas militants were able to get through? Do you question why Israel did nothing when both Egyptian and U.S. intelligence warned them of the attack a few days prior? 

It took them over 6 hours to respond.

Hamas is just a symptom of the ongoing suffocation of Palestinians.

If you create a prison, you are bound to have gangs forming and some dominating. Gaza is a concentration camp where their borders, the air, any movement of humans, food and resources is controlled by Israel. Where they regularly get carpet bombed every few years. This is how the next Hamas militant is born.

Israel has been treating the Palestinians like "human animals" as they say, for over 75 years. Hamas only came to be less than 30 years ago.

 

 

Thank them for their service.

Fall for what BS...Israel is to blame for all the worlds problems and Hamas a

Quote

terrorist group

 

 Hamas  gives zero fu*cks for what happens in Palestine or it's people. That has a stated record of political goals to kill jews globally...all of them... nothing more...where in that statement do you think a peaceful agreement can be reached... tell me truthfully has Israel ever agreed to a 2 state solution....and who rejected that offer... 

I responded to your post becasue it paints a false narrative, I'm not denying it did not happen, just saying there is no solid proof like bodies...Kind of like the 500 women and children that were killed by an Israelis airstrike at the hospital , when it was a Hamas misfired rocket....everything that comes out of Gaza is carefully crafted propaganda, designed to turn the world against Israelis... 

Hamas is the entire disease in this case, it is a terrorist group, one of the largest in the globe, it deserve no tears, or pity, it needs to be put down like a rabid dog...with extreme prejudice... The only way things can change if the Palestinian make that change... Israel can not do this themselves...Palestinians need to step up...

Israel did not create that prison...,Gaza is not even close to a concentration camp...I've been there driven through Gaza in a MFO mission many times...spent 7 months in the Sinai, working with both Egyptian and Israelis militaries...

Gaza is Gaza becasue that is the way they want it...billions of aid dollars each flow into Gaza to improve things , most of it is highjacked by Terrorists and used in it's fight with Israel , and you want to blame conditions in Gaza on Israel ...sorry man not buying it...

When you act like an animal you get treated like one, Israel is not responsible for Gaza since 2005, where is there water plant, where is there food production, no instead they dig up millions of dollars in new water infra structure to make rockets... becasue killing Jews is the objective...Hamas and it's supporters don't give a rats ass about the Palestinian people....i many examples do you need of this...Hamas own chain of command have said this many times on the media... shit most of them do not even live in Palestine, but in Qatar in luxury.

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17 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Hamas own chain of command have said this many times on the media... shit most of them do not even live in Palestine, but in Qatar in luxury.

If Oct 7 is just like 9/11 shouldn't Israel and its allies be in Qatar for the same reason everyone was in Afghanistan?

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5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Thank them for their service.

Fall for what BS...Israel is to blame for all the worlds problems and Hamas a

 

 Hamas  gives zero fu*cks for what happens in Palestine or it's people. That has a stated record of political goals to kill jews globally...all of them... nothing more...where in that statement do you think a peaceful agreement can be reached... tell me truthfully has Israel ever agreed to a 2 state solution....and who rejected that offer... 

I responded to your post becasue it paints a false narrative, I'm not denying it did not happen, just saying there is no solid proof like bodies...Kind of like the 500 women and children that were killed by an Israelis airstrike at the hospital , when it was a Hamas misfired rocket....everything that comes out of Gaza is carefully crafted propaganda, designed to turn the world against Israelis... 

Hamas is the entire disease in this case, it is a terrorist group, one of the largest in the globe, it deserve no tears, or pity, it needs to be put down like a rabid dog...with extreme prejudice... The only way things can change if the Palestinian make that change... Israel can not do this themselves...Palestinians need to step up...

Israel did not create that prison...,Gaza is not even close to a concentration camp...I've been there driven through Gaza in a MFO mission many times...spent 7 months in the Sinai, working with both Egyptian and Israelis militaries...

Gaza is Gaza becasue that is the way they want it...billions of aid dollars each flow into Gaza to improve things , most of it is highjacked by Terrorists and used in it's fight with Israel , and you want to blame conditions in Gaza on Israel ...sorry man not buying it...

When you act like an animal you get treated like one, Israel is not responsible for Gaza since 2005, where is there water plant, where is there food production, no instead they dig up millions of dollars in new water infra structure to make rockets... becasue killing Jews is the objective...Hamas and it's supporters don't give a rats ass about the Palestinian people....i many examples do you need of this...Hamas own chain of command have said this many times on the media... shit most of them do not even live in Palestine, but in Qatar in luxury.

Fxck Hamas.

The West Bank is under occupation as well and here is no Hamas there. I fully disagree with you that Hamas is the problem. 

It's important to note that Hamas is not the problem. They're only a symptom of a brutal occupation and treatment of Palestinians that has been going on for over 75 years.

This is not a defense of Hamas. Their leaders are corrupt, and as you say, their leaders, who sit in their mansions in Qatar and who have billions of dollars in assets don't actually give a fxck about the Palestinians. However, a few notes on Hamas, which is important to note:

1) They were originally created and funded by Israel to counter the PLO.

2) The Hamas charter, which was last updated in 2017 is not what the Israeli narrative says. The charter actually says:

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.

I would recommend looking at Likud's charter, which is fully against a Palestinian state:

The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.

 

 

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1 hour ago, marcus said:

Fxck Hamas.

The West Bank is under occupation as well and here is no Hamas there. I fully disagree with you that Hamas is the problem. 

It's important to note that Hamas is not the problem. They're only a symptom of a brutal occupation and treatment of Palestinians that has been going on for over 75 years.

 

Oh, not so brutal as all that, and certainly not for 75 years. Things were much more laid back before the Intifadas launched by the Palestinian leadership. Forty percent of Palestinians actually worked in Israel, and Israeli companies were starting to invest in Palestinian businesses.

Then came the Intifadas, and one outrageous terrrorist act after another. Buses blown up, cars driven into crowds. People gunned down or stabbed. Hundred of Israelis killed. The results were quite predictable. It became much harder for Palestinians to leave the territories. IDF monitoring and oversight grew much heavier. Walls and fences started going up. When the Palestinians started building or aquiring rockets to fire into Israel the blockades became much more stringent, witholding cement to make it harder to build their tunnels, withholding metals and other items needed to build rockets

But if you weren't building rockets or attacking Israel or planning attacks you were probably okay. You'd suffer some day-to-day indignities at road blocks from IDF people who had come to hate Arabs (with just cause) and who had to be extremely careful with every person because anyone might pull out a knife and throw themselves at them, heedless of whether that was suicidal.

The standard of living in the West Bank is roughly equal to Jordan now, but it used to be much better. Gaza is, well, a lot worse because Israel has a really tough blockade there due to it being governed by a party commited to murdering Jews.

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

If Oct 7 is just like 9/11 shouldn't Israel and its allies be in Qatar for the same reason everyone was in Afghanistan?

IF they tried i suspect all the arab states would dogpile on.  It's one thing when you've got a world wide coalition behind you. it's another when it's just you,

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5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

IF they tried i suspect all the arab states would dogpile on.  It's one thing when you've got a world wide coalition behind you. it's another when it's just you,

They've got 400 nukes not to mention the  US, Britain us and others.

Oh well, permawar it is I guess.

 

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Oh, not so brutal as all that, and certainly not for 75 years. Things were much more laid back before the Intifadas launched by the Palestinian leadership. Forty percent of Palestinians actually worked in Israel, and Israeli companies were starting to invest in Palestinian businesses.

Then came the Intifadas, and one outrageous terrrorist act after another. Buses blown up, cars driven into crowds. People gunned down or stabbed. Hundred of Israelis killed. The results were quite predictable. It became much harder for Palestinians to leave the territories. IDF monitoring and oversight grew much heavier. Walls and fences started going up. When the Palestinians started building or aquiring rockets to fire into Israel the blockades became much more stringent, witholding cement to make it harder to build their tunnels, withholding metals and other items needed to build rockets

But if you weren't building rockets or attacking Israel or planning attacks you were probably okay. You'd suffer some day-to-day indignities at road blocks from IDF people who had come to hate Arabs (with just cause) and who had to be extremely careful with every person because anyone might pull out a knife and throw themselves at them, heedless of whether that was suicidal.

The standard of living in the West Bank is roughly equal to Jordan now, but it used to be much better. Gaza is, well, a lot worse because Israel has a really tough blockade there due to it being governed by a party commited to murdering Jews.

It's unfortunate to see that your breakdown of the history of region is missing some really important points, like the Nakba in 1948 and the ongoing land grab.

Just in 1948, over 500 Palestinian towns and villages were demolished and the people who were living in them were killed or driven out. Over 600,000 people were displaced. People who now live outside of their homes in refugee camps in the occupied territories and in neighbouring countries. I mean, that's a pretty significant point in history to just not include in your understanding of the history and the present situation.

It's also disappointing to see that you're willing to gloss over the conditions of the Palestinians they've been forced to live in, because "they were working in Israel". Yay?

Of course you're going to have the narrative you do, when you miss some important parts of history, and the vile conditions the Palestinians have been forced to live in, before and after the first intifada. 

People need to be a little more educated on things they are so passionate about.

I recommend reading a few books on the region. I recommend books by Israeli historians Benny Morris and Ilan Pappe. 

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14 hours ago, marcus said:

It's unfortunate to see that your breakdown of the history of region is missing some really important points, like the Nakba in 1948 and the ongoing land grab.

And a million Jews were forced out of their homes and villages at the same time. But I know you don't give a shit about that.

I've already said I don't support the settlements. I don't think most Israelis do either. But the small, religious parties often hold the balance of power and are the tail wagging the dog. But let's not forget the Israelis forcibly repatriated the settlers in Gaza and the Gazans then destroyed the farms, greenhouses, etc. that they had put up there, then voted in a terrorist group that pledged relentless war against Israel and has carried it out ever since.

14 hours ago, marcus said:

It's also disappointing to see that you're willing to gloss over the conditions of the Palestinians they've been forced to live in, because "they were working in Israel". Yay?

As I pointed out, the standard of living in the West Bank is similar to Jordan.

Are Palestinians living in the land of freedom like Canada? No. Just who else in the Middle East is? And what kind of 'freedom' do you expect in an independent Palestine? You think there'll be equal rights for women? You think there will be an independent court system? Independent police? Free speech? Free elections? No. It'll be another brutal autocratic shithole run as either a military dictatorship or an Islamic state. I mean. have you paid no attention to how Hamas and the Palestinian Authority treat their own people? 

 

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1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

And a million Jews were forced out of their homes and villages at the same time. But I know you don't give a shit about that.

Why is it impossible to give a shit about both Jews and Palestinians caught up in this nightmare, why does it always have to be the former but never the latter?

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5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why is it impossible to give a shit about both Jews and Palestinians caught up in this nightmare, why does it always have to be the former but never the latter?

Because it always is. Did you not read his teary-eyed post condemning the Jews for forcing some Palestinians off the land? Did you see him mention the other side? Did you wonder about the millions of Arab Israeli citizens who didn't leave and weren't killed despite that? They're the freest Arabs in the world.

 

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Why is it impossible to give a shit about both Jews and Palestinians caught up in this nightmare, why does it always have to be the former but never the latter?

It's not.  But people who actually do would say that hamas has got to surrender and be taken apart - they woudln't blame the jews for the war.

When you support the terroists by excusing their behavior (oh well they shoudln't have but - 1948 so it's understandable right?)  then what you're doing is supporting the terror and the terrorists acts.  And that's not in support of the jews at all.

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On 11/21/2023 at 5:48 PM, marcus said:

The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.

Anybody who seriously understands the Arab mind (Islam) should understand Israel requires all the land it has to defend itself.  A so-called "two-state" solution would mean carving up Israel and giving part to the Muslims who are bent on destroying Israel.  It is obvious from history that dividing Israel, which is already a very small country between Israel and its historic enemies would never bring peace and would only threaten the very existence of Israel.  Those that demand or even suggest Israel be divided up are not real friends of Israel.  Canada's government is completely wrong and mixed up in supporting a two-state "solution".  It would solve nothing.

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35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Anybody who seriously understands the Arab mind (Islam) should understand Israel requires all the land it has to defend itself.  A so-called "two-state" solution would mean carving up Israel and giving part to the Muslims who are bent on destroying Israel.  It is obvious from history that dividing Israel, which is already a very small country between Israel and its historic enemies would never bring peace and would only threaten the very existence of Israel.  Those that demand or even suggest Israel be divided up are not real friends of Israel.  Canada's government is completely wrong and mixed up in supporting a two-state "solution".  It would solve nothing.

I don't understand what you're talking about. It makes no sense. It's like you're stitching together Israeli talking points and Zionist Christian memes that are fed to you on Facebook, and then sharing them as your opinion.

You should try understanding the history of the region the good old fashion way: Reading and researching the history. Feel free to get this from various perspectives.

It's just that it looks really bad when you want to have a strong opinion about something, when you clearly don't know enough about.

If you don't like reading, here us at least a mainstream video documentary. I urge you to educate yourself on this sophisticated history:

https://youtu.be/RW105kjNtho?si=M9yxHLKqXNtmRGk7

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6 hours ago, Gaétan said:

The Israeli military has done nothing but kill children, the elderly and women or innocent people, they are imbecile criminals

They've uncovered miles and miles of tunnels and destroyed significant amounts of hardware and killed numerous hamas leaders.

Worth every bomb.

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